The Star Citizen Thread v5

[lysan]

I don't know but I find damage affecting combat a stupid feature.
If damaged ship performs bad, you are as soon as Dead, no matter what you can do, you are a sitting duck.
So what's the point in doing that?

I will actually defend this feature, it add to gameplay in many ways, if you look at the anaconda it also have an excellent damage model.

 

[briguy168]

Then stop these untrue informations, lets talk about what is in the game right now, not in the future, not in some show case video, because that is not what is actual in the game, nor is it the state of the game right now.

If you guys continue to proclaim all these feature are in the game, then its comparable to snake oil salesmen talk. Or we could just call this our dream discussion corner where clouds are 100% more fluffy!

So by this logic, you agree that upcoming features that are in E: D or any other game that gets compared to SC cannot be discussed either?

I hope you know software development because there is this thing called MAIN. Developers add code and assets to MAIN. For lack of a better phrase, once the code is "good enough" for release they branch it out from MAIN and start assessing what can and shouldn't be apart of the build; what needs further development and what can be released. Once they get that figured out, they create a build based on that code, run their scripts and start playtesting/ironing out the major bugs. In the meantime, stuff is still being developed and added into MAIN.

Once all the major bugs are out, they release to the PTU. The Evocati do their best to break things; once that stage is done, CIG opens access to for others.

Cycle rinses and repeats

So your assertion that these things they're showing off isn't in the game is quite honestly laughable. You and I currently may not be able to play them, but that doesn't mean they aren't there within the code

 

[303i]

The problem is that when we talk about SC and progress, then compare it to other games, its always the SC dream that is hold against what is current in whatever game we are talking about.

I could also compare I: netcode dream with SC, however we haven't seen anything related to that in I:, so why even discuss it?

It nice to dream, communities do that a lot, the problem is when you try to sell a dream, how do you measure it?
As an early backer of SC I've been listening to all the commercial talk, I was too sold on the CR vision, however as I started to investigate all that turned into
a bag of nothing, because that is what it is until its realized, a bag of nothing.

77 ship sold, how many can you actually fly? 9, what about mining, trade, bounty hunting, salvage, exploration? only FPS and dog fights are in the game right now.
what about the living breathing world? NPC's walking about like in GTA style doing their thing? not there, NPC crews, and so on and so forth.

I get it, its Alpha, sorry pre Alpha, however we then need to look at its current state, and not inject dreams and future visions.

$117 MIL, 5 years, and still not ready to be released on this side of christmas.

I get your point, but please understand there's a difference between talking about mining (which we have no clue when it'll come), and confirmed features of a future patch (currently 2.5/2.6/2.7) that a third party has seen in action and we have pictures of. I'd appreciate it if you'd at least not attack people talking about the latter, as it's relevant to the near-future of the game.

I will actually defend this feature, it add to gameplay in many ways, if you look at the anaconda it also have an excellent damage model.

Well there's something we can agree on finally.

 

[Zetta]

Patch notes for 2.5

Spoiler

Alpha Patch 2.5.0 has been released to the PTU, and is now available for players to test!

This patch provides access to our GrimHEX outlaw base, new clothing options, new automated landing technology and three new flyable ships – the Reliant KORE, Argo MPUV (Cargo Variant), and Argo MPUV (Passenger Variant). This is all in addition to bug fixes for the rest of our game and content. During this initial testing phase, PTU access will be restricted to a small group of players that we will expand on over time as required.

Your launcher should show “2.5.0-380707” as the client version. It is strongly recommended that players delete their USER folder for the PTU client after patching, particularly if you start encountering any odd character graphical issues or crash on loading. The USER folder can be found (in default installations) at C:\Program Files\Cloud Imperium Games\StarCitizen\Test.
Please review our current list of Patch 2.5.0 Known Issues (coming soon!), and take full advantage of our Issue Council area of the Community site to report any bugs you encounter, as well as contribute to other players submissions.
Important Issues:

• Do Not Spawn A Constellation and Retaliator. We are aware that GrimHEX has a few residual issues with gravity pockets, missing textures and a broken elevator. We are also aware of an issue with server-client desync taking place on both Crusader and Arena Commander.

Welcome Evocati!
Contents:
New Features
Star Systems:

• Crusader

Crusader Industries would like to alert all pilots to avoid the Yela asteroid field. Pirates have become increasingly aggressive, and may attempt to lure pilots off course with fake requests for assistance. Crusader Industries believes they are based out of the decommissioned Green Imperial mining asteroid station, however attempts to locate the station have been difficult of late. Please report any suspicious activity, and consider any unidentified craft leaving the asteroid field extremely dangerous. GrimHEX asteroid station would like to cordially invite the Crusader Industries to QT into the nearest star. We’re open for business to everyone this goram economy left in the dust from here to Terra. You’re very welcome to visit and enjoy our fine goods, services and lodgings without the prying eyes of Big Crusader peeking under every door. Our bar, bounty office and race track are temporarily closed while we make some repairs from the last group of over-eager “heroes” that came through. GrimHEX can be located by navigating through the Yela asteroid field.

• Port Olisar

The LiveWire Weapons franchise in Port Olisar is currently suffering a shortage of energy weapons due to several recent attacks on cargo transports. While they apologize for the inconvenience, only ballistic weapons can be purchased at this location for the time being. Outlaw armor sets are available on GrimHEX exclusively, and can no longer be purchased at Garrity Defense.
Game Systems:

• Shopping

Skutters is a small weapon and armor shop on GrimHEX, that just so happens to be specializing in energy weapons for the discerning shopper… who does not ask where they were obtained from. KC Trending is a new location on GrimHEX station that offers a whole new selection of clothing for the discreet independent pilot. From shoes to hats, they’ve got the latest in underground fashion.

• New Landing System

The first phase of our new landing system has been implemented into the game. This is the first part of a much larger series of changes we will be working on over the next few releases to provide a simpler, more intuitive landing experience. The landing pad targeting has been temporarily removed while other moving parts are being developed and integrated. Instead of selecting a pad and requesting permission, players in automatic landing will proceed to the nearest available landing pad. When they are within 20m, and speed is under 35m/s, the landing gear will automatically extend while the thrusters dampen your speed. When a ship approaches within 5m of a landing pad, in either automatic or manual landing mode, the local Landing Control System will take control of the ship and ease it into a smooth landing. Landing gears can now also be manually deployed by tapping the “N” key on the keyboard. Holding “N” will now activate automatic landing should you be within range of an acceptable landing pad and have the proper gears deployed. Please note, this system will change over time as further improvements and features are brought online.

• Item System 2.0

We have begun converting player and ship items to our new item system. As with the prior, similar updates to ship components, this is largely at the back-end level. Implementing new component class systems, naming conventions and other needed functionality, as well as retrofitting all existing armors and weapons to be compatible. These changes will allow us to implement greater modularity to first-person items. Additionally, this will allow items to interact with one another in a more direct and less “handwavium” simulation, setting the foundation for greater player interaction and future game play mechanics. This should not affect the function of any in-game items, and changes to player item stats should be minimal.

• Player Health System 2.0

We have implemented the first phase of our new player health system! This includes the implementation of better individual limb damage and health, more granular damage states, and many back end improvements to support a better FPS combat experience and future features like permanent health. Player health dolls should now show Normal (Green) health when between 100%-60%, a Hurt (Yellow) state from 59%-40% health, a Damaged (Red) state from 39%-10%, and the Ruined (Dark Red) state at 9%-0%. With this, we have also implemented some early versions of injury penalties. This includes a speed reduction for wounded legs, as well as a limping animation. Overall health damage (particularly head wounds) can also cause blurred vision around the edge of the screen, which will increase in intensity as more damage is taken.

• Wanted Level System Update

Players with outlaw wanted level who enter Crusader will spawn in GrimHEX. This also applies to outlaw players who die and respawn in Crusader. Players with outlaw wanted levels will no longer have Port Olisar as a QT option, and instead will see GrimHEX.

• Ships: The Reliant KORE, Argo MPUV (Cargo Variant), and Argo MPUV (Passenger Variant) are all now flight ready! Reliant KORE is available in both Arena Commander and Crusader. The Argo MPUV is only available in Crusader at this time, as it does not have weapons to defend itself in the Arena Commander simulation. A new size 5 laser cannon, the M7A, has been introduced!

Updates and Fixes
Star Systems:

• Crusader

Fixed an issue where shadows around Port Olisar would flicker at certain angles and perspectives.
Updated and simplified the Quantum Travel marker names for better readability.
Made some minor visual effects updates to the interior of Port Olisar.
Made some balance changes to the pirate ships in Crusader so they use updated components.

• Area 18, ArcCorp

Finished a massive lighting and visual effects update to Area 18, ArcCorp.
Fixed an issue where a large green arrow could be seen in reflection of the Jobwell glass.
Fixed an issue where the user camera could clip through the wall of the incinerator on Area 18.

• VFG Industrial Hangar

Adjusted the lighting in the VFG hangar to be less dark.
Game Systems:

• Arena Commander

Fixed an issue where the decals would disappear off of the landing pads in Free Flight game mode.

• EVA Fixed a bug that allowed player characters to slide uncontrollably across landing pads when transitioning out of EVA at speed.

Fixed an issue where EVA animations would stutter when approaching a landing pad.

• shopping

Fixed an issue where inspecting weapons would cause the users outfit to switch into the standard flight suit regardless of what they were currently wearing.
Fixed an issue where the weapon shops were not correctly recognizing the maximum number of equipped weapons, resulting in a number of problems, including causing some size 3 FPS weapons to disappear.

• Social Module

Name-tags for players in Augmented Reality now appear at 25 meters.
Fixed an issue where using the MobiGlas hotkey while in a turret would cause a chain reaction of problems.
Ships:

• Ship Weapons

Fixed an issue where the CF-007 Bulldog Repeater, CF-117 Badger Repeater, and CF-227 Panther Repeater didn’t slow their rate of fire when running low on energy.
The M3A, M4A, and MVSA laser cannons have had their time-to-overheat lowered, so that heat now has a more meaningful gameplay impact on the weapon now.
Fixed issues where the missile smoke trail effects could not be seen unless the missile is very close to the viewer.
Individual Ships

• Aurora

Fixed an issue where the engine thruster exhaust effects was displaying circular blurs instead of proper visuals.

• Avenger

Made a number of exit and enter animation improvements for the Avenger Warlock.

• Constellation Andromeda

The missile racks for the Constellation Andromeda can no longer be edited by Port Mod.
The side missile racks on the Constellation Andromeda should now target and fire properly.

• Cutlass Black Made a number of exit and entrance animation improvements for the Cutlass Black.

The missile racks for the Cutlass Black can no longer be edited by Port Mod.

• Freelancer Added strafing control animations for the Freelancer pilot.

Updated the audio for the Freelancer cockpit doors so it is properly synced.
Added boosting visual effects to the Freelancer’s thrusters.
Toned down the brightness of the Freelancer maneuvering thruster.

• Gladiator

The missile and torpedo racks on the Gladiator can no longer be edited Port Mod.

• Gladius

Fixed an issue where the shell casings on the Scorpion gun would fly in front of the pilot before disappearing.

• Hornet

Made some improvements to the Hornet series audio, for all variants except the F7C-M.
Fixed an issue with the F7C-M Hornet, where the ship would not transition into damage states correctly on being damaged.
Fixed some of the control issues with the F7C-M Hornet turret.

• M50 The missile racks for the M50 can no longer be edited by Port Mod.
• Mustang

Fixed an issue with the Mustang Beta, Gamma, Delta, and Omega wherein the ships had no explosion audio or visual when destroyed.
Fixed an issue where the Mustang series could not be repaired if wings were damaged.
Fixed an issue where users could not exit the Mustang Gamma if it was partially damaged and landed.
Fixed an issue where there were no lights present in the back of the Mustang Beta.
Fixed an issue where the exterior lights on the Mustang Alpha did not function.
Fixed an issue where the locker onboard the Mustang Beta could not be interacted with.
Fixed an issue where the armor plates on the Mustang Delta wings would continue to float alongside after the wings were destroyed.

• Reliant KORE

Fixed an issue where excessive fog was leaking out of the Reliant in the Hangar.

• Sabre

Fixed an issue with the AEGIS Sabre where the throttle floats in mid-air during entry animations.
Made some alterations to the Sabre handling to make it more nimble, and have less jerkiness when rolling.

• Starfarer

Added strafing control animations for the Starfarer pilot.

• Vanguard Warden

The missile racks on the Vanguard Warden can no longer be edited by Port Mod.
First Person:
First-person camera views have received significant attention to provide a much more stable and smooth viewing experience for players. There is now a UI sound triggered when an enemy is shot by the player. Updated the “Examine Pistol” animation for shopping. Made a number of improvements to character prone animations. Fixed an issue where the death animation would play twice when a character was shot. Fixed an issue where the burp emote contained no audio. Fixed an issue where the user would desync after aiming down the sights of the Arrowhead Sniper Rifle. Assault rifles will now properly re-center after the user sprints.
User Interface:
Fixed an issue where the aiming reticle on a Gamepad or a HOTAS would become very erratic when targeting enemies. Fixed an issue where the Port Modification Hangar modes would still show the name of a ship after it had been removed. Fixed an issue where users in free cursor mode would still fire their Weapon Group 1 when clicking. Fixed an issue with Hostility UI, where the orange wanted icon for Wanted Level 1 would not appear. Fixed an issue where the 3rd person Free Cam could not zoom in or out. Ship target HUD now dynamically changes colors based on the allegiance of the target.
Keybindings
Fixed an issue where changes to the Graphics Quality in the options menu did not actually change the quality of graphics. Added a keybind mapping for X52 Pro HOTAS.
Technical:
Fixed a number of client crashes. Fixed a number of server crashes. Fixed a client disconnection (Code 1) that would sometimes occur when loading into Arena Commander. Added a new error (10002) for players who are disconnected due to duplicate login. This can be due to the account already being logged in on another computer or client. This can also happen after a crash or force-close of the game, when the prior connection has not timed out yet. Optimizations
Fixed an issue with Area 18, ArcCorp, where there were severe FPS drops when looking at the center of the level. Fixed an issue where switching between 1st and 3rd camera view would briefly drop the client frames per second down to 5.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/4v6y6j/ask_and_ye_shall_receive/

 

[VidarSnipes]

I get your point, but please understand there's a difference between talking about mining (which we have no clue when it'll come), and confirmed features of a future patch (currently 2.5/2.6/2.7) that a third party has seen in action and we have pictures of. I'd appreciate it if you'd at least not attack people talking about the latter, as it's relevant to the near-future of the game.

We've had an entire live gameplay demo for Star Marine, and yet it failed to materialize, we've had Roberts promising various FPS features in 2.2, 2.3, which still aren't in game. How many deadlines did CIG uphold? Simply put, CIG's words are not a reliable source of information.

 

[303i]

We've had an entire live gameplay demo for Star Marine, and yet it failed to materialize, we've had Roberts promising various FPS features in 2.2, 2.3. Simply put, CIG' words are not a reliable source of information.

.....and? Should we all just not say anything when new information is released on the odd chance that CIG changes their mind? CIG appear to have locked in what they specifically want completed for those patches, and it's not an off-hand comment from Chris in a random video, it's from the German studio who are the primary engineering brains of the entire company.

Heck, even the gamescom email that got sent to everyone mentions showing off PG Planets for patch 2.7

 

[VidarSnipes]

.....and? Should we all just not say anything when new information is released on the odd chance that CIG changes their mind?

Yup. Or to be exact, mention it when the CIG announces it, but treat it as a statement of intent, not reliable information. CIG have a proven track record of not being able to fulfill their promises. Judging CIG by their words, not actions, is a recipe for disappointment.

Edit: I'm not against reporting CIG's words, but I'm against blindly believing them.

 

[Stigbob]

.....and? Should we all just not say anything when new information is released on the odd chance that CIG changes their mind? CIG appear to have locked in what they specifically want completed for those patches, and it's not an off-hand comment from Chris in a random video, it's from the German studio who are the primary engineering brains of the entire company.

Heck, even the gamescom email that got sent to everyone mentions showing off PG Planets for patch 2.7

The only sensible approach to CiG marketing is keep your wallet in your pocket, and remember every missed date, dropped feature and unrealistic bit of theory-crafting passed off as fact.

 

[Osmanthus]

Yup. Or to be exact, mention it when the CIG announces it, but treat it as a statement of intent, not reliable information. CIG have a proven track record of not being able to fulfill their promises. Judging CIG by their words, not actions, is a recipe for disappointment.

Edit: I'm not against reporting CIG's words, but I'm against blindly believing them.

This is the crux. In today's gaming world (not sure if it's really ever been different), we cannot trust a company for its own predictions. Remember Aliens: Colonial Marines? Heck, remember Daikatana? Just because CIG says it, even if CIG shows it in a video, we cannot believe that they will be able to accomplish it. Cases in point: Aliens Colonial Marines pre-release videos, Star Marine videos.

 

[lysan]

I get your point, but please understand there's a difference between talking about mining (which we have no clue when it'll come), and confirmed features of a future patch (currently 2.5/2.6/2.7) that a third party has seen in action and we have pictures of. I'd appreciate it if you'd at least not attack people talking about the latter, as it's relevant to the near-future of the game.



Well there's something we can agree on finally.

I'm contradicting claim that is not made clear that they are just that, concept, test beds, show cases, when they are "served" as a part of the game now.
People who may or may not what to pledge to SC need to understand what the current state of the game is, not how it will be in X month or years.

Because it's hurting the indie Developers and the projects they are struggling to launch. There are nothing wrong in stating that this is a feature we would like to see, however stating that its a feature we will get soon TM are, how should I put it, misleading.

If I stated that ED is a game where there will be;

Moving weather on a global scale
NPC wild life including life cycle
water with eroding features
Gravity
cities that will be different depending on the civilization
vucanos
oceans
FPS and full character modelling
Complex flight models

I would be in dreamland, however all these features are planed in ED, but probably not in the details this list gives the impression of.
Discussing future features are great, however a project like SC have almost included all possible features contained in any game ever!

So, please include a **not included in current game and no ETA of delivery after all the wishful thinking is applied.

Fact is that we simply don't know if they can incorporate all those features in the game, even if they make a show case video of it.
Must be in game before we start praising a feature.

 

[303i]

Yup. Or to be exact, mention it when the CIG announces it, but treat it as a statement of intent, not reliable information. CIG have a proven track record of not being able to fulfill their promises. Judging CIG by their words, not actions, is a recipe for disappointment.

Edit: I'm not against reporting CIG's words, but I'm against blindly believing them.

I understand that, but there's also degrees of reliability when it comes to what CIG says. Chris saying x thing will come in x patch during a 10FtC video is setting yourself up for disappointment, sure. However confirming patch content to a german gaming mag & providing them with working versions to play, while also mentioning the patch in a gamescom newsletter + RtV, then presenting footage on AtV is far more reliable.

 

[briguy168]

Well anyone who is using purported feature announcements as facts shouldn't be arguing. Everything that I've been arguing is within their MAIN codebase or at least there is tangible evidence that it is within the codebase.

 

[tooterfish]

.....and? Should we all just not say anything when new information is released on the odd chance that CIG changes their mind? CIG appear to have locked in what they specifically want completed for those patches, and it's not an off-hand comment from Chris in a random video, it's from the German studio who are the primary engineering brains of the entire company.

Heck, even the gamescom email that got sent to everyone mentions showing off PG Planets for patch 2.7

Weeks, not months!

 

[303i]

Star Marine is just another ballpark altogether, and is one of those "don't let contractors deal with critical components" lessons.

It's pretty evident that CIG got the 1.x/2.0 code merge done and then realized how much work it would take to integrate the SM base. Not to mention having to dedicate QA time & server dev away from 2.0 for it. illfonic got cut and SM went on the back burner for a while.

 

[Stigbob]

Star Marine is just another ballpark altogether, and is one of those "don't let contractors deal with critical components" lessons.

It's pretty evident that CIG got the 1.x/2.0 code merge done and then realized how much work it would take to integrate the SM base. Not to mention having to dedicate QA time & server dev away from 2.0 for it. illfonic got cut and SM went on the back burner for a while.

It's not illfonics fault that CiG didn't update them on the "improvements" they made to cry-engine which led to illfonics hard work being incompatible with the frankenengine.

 

[Osmanthus]

Star Marine is just another ballpark altogether, and is one of those "don't let contractors deal with critical components" lessons.

It's pretty evident that CIG got the 1.x/2.0 code merge done and then realized how much work it would take to integrate the SM base. Not to mention having to dedicate QA time & server dev away from 2.0 for it. illfonic got cut and SM went on the back burner for a while.

"It's pretty evident" here means "This is what someone said over on the Star Citizen subreddit", or, more charitably, "I guess it's... maybe because of this?"

Never mind that this is far from the only time CIG hasn't been able to keep their promises. Never mind that everything they've shown online, except for the time Chris tried disastrously to play his own game (and vow a change in the chat system that never came, correct me if I'm wrong), has appeared lovely and bug-free but everything they push out to players has been anything but.

 

[lysan]

Well anyone who is using purported feature announcements as facts shouldn't be arguing. Everything that I've been arguing is within their MAIN codebase or at least there is tangible evidence that it is within the codebase.

we're all good, and I agree.

 

[govny]

That's just part of the game's design as a whole. Accurate damage modelling has been a focus of the game for a while, as shown in the last damage model update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkAaLd0FdK0

Think about War Thunder when you shoot a wing off. It's the same idea.

just my point. In War Thunder you are dead, period.
To implement this feature is a waste of time and resources.

 

[303i]

"It's pretty evident" here means "This is what someone said over on the Star Citizen subreddit", or, more charitably, "I guess it's... maybe because of this?"

Never mind that this is far from the only time CIG hasn't been able to keep their promises. Never mind that everything they've shown online, except for the time Chris tried disastrously to play his own game (and vow a change in the chat system that never came, correct me if I'm wrong), has appeared lovely and bug-free but everything they push out to players has been anything but.

It's really the answer that makes the most sense, and fits in with the code branch merge they mentioned in a few monthly reports. Around the same time, illfonic got let go. There's always the option that illfonic just did a poor job and CIG wasn't happy enough to implement it, but the SC community likes that answer even less than the previous one. Frankly we'll never know what actually happened and at this point I've stopped caring.

I've seen every major CIG livestream and I have no clue what you're talking about.

- The first dogfighting reveal crashed twice
- The dogfighting multiplayer reveal had a drunk crowd and never ended up working.
- The very, very first multicrew demo glitched out the first time they showed it.
- The first "landing" video they showed was a prototype someone threw together in 2 weeks.
- Last year's live multicrew demo broke after the tali took too much damage.
- The same multicrew demo wasn't even in a working state internally until 2 weeks before the show.
- The first time they played SM, it had massive FPS drops at the start and super cringe voiceovers
- The second time they played star marine on stage was a mess with awful animations and general gameplay
- The SC Alpha 2.0 trailer contains FPS drops.

In quite a few cases, they ended up releasing something better than what they put on stage.

 

[briguy168]

just my point. In War Thunder you are dead, period.
To implement this feature is a waste of time and resources.

It does help with the immersion™

I have witnessed players come out winning in that state. With War Thunder you have the ground to contend with if you loose a wing or vertical stabilizer. Space is a completely different story