The Star Citizen Thread v5

[Asylum]

Cargo interaction would make the transport of slaves far more visceral. One may even have an in game moral dilemma. This type of interaction shouldn't be downplayed because it could really flesh out something a little more mundane like trading.

Elite seems to be dropping the ball with the direction they are going. Playing an unfinished buggy alpha gave me game play elements with crew interaction that can not be replicated in Elite....

Not sure how many times this slave interaction thing you talk about will remain interesting. They are going to be AI drones and you won't have any moral delemas to get over. This isn't a film, it's one of a thousand missions. I do feel your imagination is filling s big hole with that statement.

Contrary to your experience and an example of player nuances...I can't stand the gameplay currently in SC because I hate the controls/FM. Contrary to thay playing elite for me is a pleasure because the fm and controls are solid.

I don't think ED is perfect, I don't like engineers gameplay AT ALL but they have never oversold and underdelivered imho.

Multicew coming in ED, along with dockable fighters and the already existing SRV. My MP interactions in ED with friends has been much more rewarding than anything SC has offered as of right now.

Difference in gamer desires etc. Nobody is wrong when it comes to that, simply different perspective.

 

[Komemiute]

See my reply above I've played falcon 4, AF and BMS. If you have a source that says Facon 4 was developed from scratch and wasn't patched after release then go ahead and provide it - if you can't then your blowing hot air.

Good for GOG getting the rights though! that's great news

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Does anyone here criticising SC own the game?

I know basically all the ins and outs of Falcon 4.0

YES- it was developed completely from scratch.
I owned them all back in the day and there's NOTHING you could have ported from 3.0 to 4.0

Why? Technology. 3.0 was a DOS entity, 4.0 was a completely rewritten Windows (and later MacOS) based software.

Each iteration was a completely different software- with the only possible allowance for Falcon and Falcon AT.

Each iteration was a total innovation compared with the previous. And possibly the only one through groundbreaking software in Military Simulations- believe it or not (*cough cough* math co-pocessor).

Falcon 4.0 wasn't perfect. But released as a complete entity. Could be played in its entirety from start to end, with the occasional documented bugs, and that was it.
The first patch resolved almost most of them.

And. that. was. it. Done in four years and a patch.

All the rest was modding from a fervent community. With or without Hasbro/Microprose consent.
But that's another software and another topic.

 

[JohnMice]

Insightfull article, worth the read:
https://gameraven.com/editorials/new-star-citizen-demo-silences-haters

Gamescom really helped people to understand the true vision of Chris Roberts.

Citizencon will push that vision even further.

 

[Asylum]

Insightfull article, worth the read:
https://gameraven.com/editorials/new-star-citizen-demo-silences-haters

Gamescom really helped people to understand the true vision of Chris Roberts.

Citizencon will push that vision even further.

It will never silence the haters and the article shouldn't focus on that. It does to get clicks clearly because both sides will rush to read it and attempt to discredit it.

Haters and cultists...it's too damn divisive. Someone who enjoys the game and someone who doesn't is immediately jammed into one side or the other.

The demo wasn't playable so those "haters" aren't convinced of anything.

The game will speak for itself and for many "haters" who saw that demo it hasn't done that yet.

 

[Skizomeuh]

I recently downloaded the Stars Citizen Alpha and spent hours just EVAing out of my ship and repairing/turning on Comm Arrays. Then I randomly saved some guy who's ship blew up next to the station. This seemingly very simple game play mechanic gave me everything I felt I had been missing in Elite.... a person could physically board my vessel and wasn't just some text or picture...

The level of detail in this game already is mind boggling.... I haven't had this much fun with an unfinished product or space game in general since the X series.

While Elite is a cool space sim that I absolutely loved in the Oculus I just never felt attached to it.... this is where Elite has fallen short.

Quite true. Though Elite put Space on the foreground first - quite clever fort a Space Game don't you think - while it's mostly secondary in Star Citizen (some may say Space isn't even in ^^).
What you say Elite is lacking is coming in the future though.

When Elite ever finally has space legs there will be no real reason to get up because all functions trade/mining can be done from the seat. Having it be some contrived expansion that the core of the game can do without is probably Elites greatest mistake...

Now, that's the point I differ: from an immersion point of view, having to manually make those tasks may be interesting, though they may quickly get boring and counterproductive - even for the immersion.

Funny how CIG is all about immersion, fidelity, where everything must be done by the player's hands, all the while going full Hollywood spectacle : movies are full of ellipsis for all these boring, repetitive tasks.

When space legs come to Elite, I'm pretty sure they won't be for lengthy and boring alternatives to a press on a button from the pilot seat. FDEV will have to build tasks dedicated to space legs, not available from pilot's seat or maybe complementary (for example: EVA repair of things an AFMU can't fix)

 

[Zyll Goliat]

Does anyone here criticising SC own the game?

Sure many ppl. in here own the game and had more than valid critics about it.....I didn´t change my mind at all,soon after I pledge the game I was starting to see some serious issues with SC but I realize that it´s almost impossible to had any constructive conversation about it on SC forum at all or otherwise you going to be accused as a hater or goon.

I never ever had the problem to give CR&CIG credits for nice and shiny GFX and animation or cool&classic art,many good tunes and their marketing team capability but from other side from the day 1 I had almost same concerns I had it now and that is:
1)Network&MP issues in CE....2)Dreadful and boring Flight Mechanics.....3)CR false statements/LIES....4)Grey Market incitement ..5)False advertising.....6)Cult-y community....and after few years I pickup some new concerns as:1)Horrible TOS Changes....2)CIG spying on backers and calling them bad names...3)CIG stealing other ppl. work(Watermark afair)...etc....

I still believe that CIG will make the game at the end but in my opinion that will not be even close to what they are been advertising all this years.....

 

[Komemiute]

Insightfull article, worth the read:
https://gameraven.com/editorials/new-star-citizen-demo-silences-haters

Gamescom really helped people to understand the true vision of Chris Roberts.

Citizencon will push that vision even further.

Komemiute reads "...silence haters"

Komemiute looks at this thread. At SA. At a lots of other places.

Komemiute thinks that his understanding of "Silence" is different from the writer of the article.

 

[frostypaw]

Insightfull article, worth the read:
https://gameraven.com/editorials/new-star-citizen-demo-silences-haters

Gamescom really helped people to understand the true vision of Chris Roberts.

Citizencon will push that vision even further.

Genuinely what do you think was "insightful" about that article.

Could you list a couple of insights that it gave you?

Seriously from the outside I saw absolutely nothing new and many things that concerned me - I cannot fathom the in-bubble hype and I'm curious

 

[briguy168]

I have a question about the planet landings in SC.

If I remember correctly, they were only proposed as cutscene landings on pre made areas on otherwise inaccessible planets, which was cool in the design philosophy of the original pitch.

However, then David Braben up and promised full scale planets which are fully accessible, that you could roam about even if there's nothing on them.

It was only after FD actually got very close to doing that and they rightfully bragged about it with a few teaser tech videos that PG planet landings became a promise for SC.

Am I wrong about this? Or was it a promise from before that.

I'm absolutely certain FD promised the free form planet landings first and CR came later cause he couldn't stand being one upped but I'm not sure about the exact gap between the promises.

CIG was always going to look into PG (it was one of their stretch goals to R&D it). They most likely didn't make any headway into PG until they hired the CryTek engineers. Once hired, I assume CR tasked them to figure out how to utilize PG for not only their mission system but also planets and buildings (it would have taken them far longer to create "hand designed" planets). IIRC, this was around the time that Horizons was being marketed by Frontier (which had planetary landing in mind from the begining, I know because I asked them specifically during their kickstart to which they answered). Although I will admit DB's announcement probably kickstarted the PG R&D, I hardly think it was for one-up-manship. He probably saw what they were doing and thought "lets try that".

So, IMHO, you're coming to unsubstantiated, and most likely incorrect, conclusions that have a hint of confirmation bias by using assumptive deductive logic.

 

[AJW]

Does anyone here criticising SC own the game?

No, I don't. And I see no reason whatsoever why a discussion of an unreleased game on a forum owned by another developer should be confined to those who have purchased it. No doubt some SCs supporters would prefer not to see any commentary anywhere from people not committed to the cause, but personally I think any healthy games developer should welcome wide discussion of upcoming products from non-customers of all kinds.

 

[Stigbob]

When space legs come to Elite, I'm pretty sure they won't be for lengthy and boring alternatives to a press on a button from the pilot seat. FDEV will have to build tasks dedicated to space legs, not available from pilot's seat or maybe complementary (for example: EVA repair of things an AFMU can't fix)

I agree it would be fairly simple to give an incentive to get out of the pilots seat and use your space legs.

Quick theory-crafted example : very lucrative assassination mission only available face to face in the bounty hunters office as it's too highly classified for a public noticeboard. The target is in hiding in the bowels of another station so you have to go on foot to find him after flying there.

 

[Zetta]

ok

Point was not missed at all. You wanted to imply that they suddenly found themselves with more money than they were prepared for, having to produce a bigger game than they planned etc. I am pointing out (seeing you missed the point) they didn't suddenly find themselves in that situation, they put themselves in that situation by continually driving for finance.

Capiche?

 

[Skizomeuh]

I agree it would be fairly simple to give an incentive to get out of the pilots seat and use your space legs.

Quick theory-crafted example : very lucrative assassination mission only available face to face in the bounty hunters office as it's too highly classified for a public noticeboard. The target is in hiding in the bowels of another station so you have to go on foot to find him after flying there.

You get a mission asking you to go down to a planet to hack a remote base network with your SRV. The hacking reveals there's an hostage kept in the base. Fortunately you bought the Expansion pass or the Season 3/4/whatever, so you can get out of your SRV, get in the base all guns out and exfiltrate the prisoner who then gives you the mission to bring him/her back home. During the trip he/she asks you to look for his/her shipwreck to gather important data he/she kept safe in. You locate the wreckage, EVA into it and get the data back to you ship, and take the passenger back to his/her home.

 

[briguy168]

You're also marginalizing the fact that the community, at the time, wanted CR to build the game he wanted. The community gave CIG carte blanche and not the other way around. Until that shift, CIG was going to create a single-player game, admittedly with drop-in co-op, and then build out the MMO with the proceeds. But yes you are correct that the original pledge drive was to show his investors that space games were viable.

 

[hairychris]

You're also marginalizing the fact that the community, at the time, wanted CR to build the game he wanted. The community gave CIG carte blanche and not the other way around. Until that shift, CIG was going to create a single-player game, admittedly with drop-in co-op, and then build out the MMO with the proceeds. But yes you are correct that the original pledge drive was to show his investors that space games were viable.

It's pretty well known to anyone who's done any technical work is that the customer is usually wrong.... unless you have gone into excruciating detail with the specifications and got sign-off to essentially cover your own backside if/when the client wants to make a "minor" change (in their conception of the project) that ends up requiring a complete re-engineer.

Which part of the "community" made the decisions?

The ones who backed, therefore enabling stretch goals? (this should be irrelevant, as stretch goals should already have been roadmapped)

Or the vocal minority of people who voted on the CIG boards? (the reasons why this is a stupid thing to do are legion)

And, more to the point, were these in any way informed decisions? Because the whole community know how to build computer games....

 

[Osmanthus]

You're also marginalizing the fact that the community, at the time, wanted CR to build the game he wanted. The community gave CIG carte blanche and not the other way around. Until that shift, CIG was going to create a single-player game, admittedly with drop-in co-op, and then build out the MMO with the proceeds. But yes you are correct that the original pledge drive was to show his investors that space games were viable.

This is worth discussing. I'm curious about this because I'd like to know how you come to this conclusion, genuinely. People often mention a poll(s?) when discussing this. Or are you referring more to the fact that all the stretch goals were met and interpret that as a carte blanche?

 

[Dr Wookie]

Insightfull article, worth the read:
https://gameraven.com/editorials/new-star-citizen-demo-silences-haters

Gamescom really helped people to understand the true vision of Chris Roberts.

Citizencon will push that vision even further.

I watched the Alpha 3 demo, and liked pretty much everything apart from the flying and the fighting. Shame flying and fighting are two such significant parts of the game !

It does look more like CIG might eventually produce a game of some description

 

[Godsailsaqueen]

I am really wanting star citizen to succeed. I don't own the game, I have no shares, I have no other reason for believing in it than my taste for space games. I'm pretty sure it will come out and deliver.

As a game, I'm all for it. I love roleplaying, so I like the details, I like the fact that my character could chill out in a station bar, having a nap in my ship's quarters, I like that I have to do all the work when filling up my cargo bay. Those are the little things I enjoy, there's a feeling which appeals to me.
Regarding the community, I'm kinda meh. There are the haters, obviously. There are the fanatics. And there is this whole, unprecedented success for such a game which brought many people to the genre... And by many, I mean all of them. Suddenly, in 2 years, every goddamn gamer was a space sim fan. Every goddamn chap with a degree in CoD, a PhD in CS:GO was like "this is the game for me!!'.

Gosh, such "elite"ism, not too proud of myself. I'm all for success and a diverse community, but I know, selfishly, that I'm the minority and I won't have things such as realistic flight models... Peaceful interactions... It will be a paradise for gankers and people screaming in their mics, eve online in first person view.

 

[Monk]

Haven't been here in a bit...was busy sharing my opinions and criticizing the decisions of Frontier on the recently announced ship transfer service (which we don't need to get into here, please).

It is nice to know, though, that dissenting views don't get banned or get threads closed on Dangerous Discussions.

So, how are things in SC-land. I heard there was a new patch, was it 2.5L? Does it fix the networking issues? I'm probably going to wait for 2.6 before I install again, but am curious to hear if any progress is being made, currently.

 

[Asp Explorer]

It's equally curious to see the level of "wish" displayed in some places - where the SC space ships are imagined as fulfilling various roles for gameplay mechanics so "not a space ship game" that it would require a whole game concept of itself.

What they dream of doing in-game, have convinced themselves that will be in-game, and what is realistically possible to provide in-game, are often separated by the enormous gaping chasm of "lulzwut?"