The Star Citizen Thread v5

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JohnMice

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Oh, sure, it's a pretty simple problem - you can't paint a decal over a surface in such a way that you'd then see what's behind the original object. Same as only bugs bunny can paint a tunnel onto a wall.

Exactly, I don't know why people without any knowledge about game development keep trying to diminish what you guys at CIG are doing but it's clear as water that it's something really special!

I noticed that with this 2.5 patch you guys added bloom effect by default , is there more graphical improvements on the way with the 2.6 or it's just for 3.0?

How about a way to regulate the bloom effect? It seem a bit excessive at times.

Congratulations with the gamescom demo.
 
Exactly, I don't know why people without any knowledge about game development keep trying to diminish what you guys at CIG are doing but it's clear as water that it's something really special!
Because from the perspective of people who do know a fair amount about game development and who have actually paid attention to the evolution that has happened over the last couple of decades, so little of the stuff CIG tries to hype up is actually anything special.
 
Will ships have violent decompression? Say a cannon ball rips through the hull...could any unwitting players meandering about get pushed out the hole?
 
Oh, sure, it's a pretty simple problem - you can't paint a decal over a surface in such a way that you'd then see what's behind the original object. Same as only bugs bunny can paint a tunnel onto a wall.

IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover, 2011.

CLoDDamage_zps5thpyild.jpg


Almost certainly not the first game to do this: damage decals showing underlying structure. All it requires is an alpha channel for the 'skin' bitmap. Paint the damage onto the skin, including the alpha 'hole'. Simple...
 
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Oh, sure, it's a pretty simple problem - you can't paint a decal over a surface in such a way that you'd then see what's behind the original object. Same as only bugs bunny can paint a tunnel onto a wall.

I had to do that once and we ended up baking the decals onto the RGBA-Texture of the affected face. Worked fine but of course only for simple meshes, and it strains the texture memory budget. And with today's triangle throughput there's the question whether it's not actually easier to deform geometry and not mess with decal transparency effects at all.

There's some neat stuff you can do by tesselating the mesh, esp. rather visceral projectile penetration simulation. And if you have a complex physical simulation model driving this, for example a tank's reactive armor performance model, you can do neat things like calculate the effects of a sabot shell impact in real time and show what happens to the turret crown. And the computing power required is in your PC these days, it's no longer just companies like Evans and Sutherland having the neccessary hardware :)

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IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover, 2011.

http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae65/ajv00987k/CLoDDamage_zps5thpyild.jpg

Almost certainly not the first game to do this: damage decals showing underlying structure.

AFAIK, but I don't know this for certain, IL-2 does this by having extra textures with alpha mapped holes in them. So when you shoot the wing, you can have this type of damage simulated in various spots but it's not *exactly* where the bullet impacts. They also do have regular bullet impact decals too, you don't get to see the insides of the wing structure right away.
 

JohnMice

Banned
Because from the perspective of people who do know a fair amount about game development and who have actually paid attention to the evolution that has happened over the last couple of decades, so little of the stuff CIG tries to hype up is actually anything special.

Nothing special indeed... I guess people just look at what CIG is doing and think "Hey these guys are doing such mundane things, things that have been done before decades ago, nothing really special or new, might as well give them my hard earned money."
tss tss...
 
Nothing special indeed... I guess people just look at what CIG is doing and think "Hey these guys are doing such mundane things, things that have been done before decades ago, nothing really special or new, might as well give them my hard earned money."
tss tss...

Yeah coz hype never works
 
Nothing special indeed... I guess people just look at what CIG is doing and think "Hey these guys are doing such mundane things, things that have been done before decades ago, nothing really special or new, might as well give them my hard earned money."
tss tss...

Damage textures cool...where's the trading system? Where's the demo economy with mining, construction, repair, and a dozen other "career paths" we've been told about over the past nearly 4 years? Because those are the things that will make people actually play the game and continue to play the game. Damage effects aren't going to make or keep people playing the game.
 
I guess people just look at what CIG is doing and think "Hey these guys are doing such mundane things, things that have been done before decades ago, nothing really special or new, might as well give them my hard earned money."
Nah. That only happens to the people who don't know a far amount about game development and ho haven't actually paid attention to the evolution that has happened over the last couple of decades. But it's not their perspective I'm talking about.
 
Nothing special indeed... I guess people just look at what CIG is doing and think "Hey these guys are doing such mundane things, things that have been done before decades ago, nothing really special or new, might as well give them my hard earned money."
tss tss...

Nope. CIG claim to be doing new things, and some people hand over money accordingly. A shame that they don't do a little research first, but it's their loss not mine...
 
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I'd like to thank all those in the Star Citizen booster club for keeping the discussion in this thread.

There are those in other parts of the forum who just drop in on the day's most popular disagreement over something in Elite, take the most negative, most pessimistic position and then just state they are leaving for SC or can't wait for SC to come out so they can ditch ED. These are the ones I really can't stand. At least you lot are out here where you can be seen and engaged.

So, again, thank you.
 

JohnMice

Banned
So there's nothing besides hype fueling the enthusiasm for the game since 2012... right. I thought the vaporware accusations died about 2 years ago. Enjoying the endurance on that denial effort tsstss.

I'd like to thank all those in the Star Citizen booster club for keeping the discussion in this thread.

There are those in other parts of the forum who just drop in on the day's most popular disagreement over something in Elite, take the most negative, most pessimistic position and then just state they are leaving for SC or can't wait for SC to come out so they can ditch ED. These are the ones I really can't stand. At least you lot are out here where you can be seen and engaged.

So, again, thank you.

That's just passionate gamers not being able to cope with their frustrations and then turning into haters. Don't let their bitterness and cynicism affect you or your opinion and just laugh it off, works for me.
 
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I had to do that once and we ended up baking the decals onto the RGBA-Texture of the affected face. Worked fine but of course only for simple meshes, and it strains the texture memory budget. And with today's triangle throughput there's the question whether it's not actually easier to deform geometry and not mess with decal transparency effects at all.

There's some neat stuff you can do by tesselating the mesh, esp. rather visceral projectile penetration simulation. And if you have a complex physical simulation model driving this, for example a tank's reactive armor performance model, you can do neat things like calculate the effects of a sabot shell impact in real time and show what happens to the turret crown. And the computing power required is in your PC these days, it's no longer just companies like Evans and Sutherland having the neccessary hardware :)

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AFAIK, but I don't know this for certain, IL-2 does this by having extra textures with alpha mapped holes in them. So when you shoot the wing, you can have this type of damage simulated in various spots but it's not *exactly* where the bullet impacts. They also do have regular bullet impact decals too, you don't get to see the insides of the wing structure right away.
The damage system isn't too far from the baking approach you described, except it keeps the alpha in a separate map with its own UV layout, does some decorative stuff like after-glow etc.
Nothing special indeed... I guess people just look at what CIG is doing and think "Hey these guys are doing such mundane things, things that have been done before decades ago, nothing really special or new, might as well give them my hard earned money."
tss tss...
I have to disagree with you there. Much of what gets done in SC has been done before, and credit to the people who did it before. It's still exciting when you go from not having it, to having it, and there's a sliding scale from total reinvention to drop-in turnkey solutions, the answer's usually in the middle. While I take offence at the idea that all this is is "adding an alpha channel" to paint-over decals, it's also ridiculous to assume no one's ever thought of accumulating alpha in an offscreen buffer.
 
So there's nothing besides hype fueling the enthusiasm for the game since 2012.
Pretty much, yeah. Well, hype built on top of nostalgia and a severely skewed perception of the state of gaming, but that's really more of a foundation than the actual fuel.
 
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Damage textures cool...where's the trading system? Where's the demo economy with mining, construction, repair, and a dozen other "career paths" we've been told about over the past nearly 4 years? Because those are the things that will make people actually play the game and continue to play the game. Damage effects aren't going to make or keep people playing the game.

Different people are working on different stuff, you won't see an artist implementing gameplay mechanics.
 

JohnMice

Banned
I have to disagree with you there. Much of what gets done in SC has been done before, and credit to the people who did it before. It's still exciting when you go from not having it, to having it, and there's a sliding scale from total reinvention to drop-in turnkey solutions, the answer's usually in the middle. While I take offence at the idea that all this is is "adding an alpha channel" to paint-over decals, it's also ridiculous to assume no one's ever thought of accumulating alpha in an offscreen buffer.

It's not just about what has been done before but how it was integrated in the whole package, if you think about it World of Warcraft just gathered a lot of features that were already in other mmos and combined them into a Juggernaut eclipsing everything around it. And it keeps going and going.

BTW Ben, what are you looking forward to play the most? Squadron 42 or Star Citizen?

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Pretty much, yeah. Well, hype built on top of nostalgia and a severely skewed perception of the state of gaming, but that's really more of a foundation than the actual fuel.

So what was the reason you backed the game? Or what should be the reason to back a crowdfunded game?
 
That's just passionate gamers not being able to cope with their frustrations and then turning into haters. Don't let their bitterness and cynicism affect you or your opinion and just laugh it off, works for me.

Oh, for sure. I'm just saying it is easier to have a dialogue here than with someone who is clearly already disgruntled about stuff or is just trolling.

This thread is always much more interesting when there is a back and forth going...even when each side has bad or hyperbolic arguments (though not always).

There was a time, right around when Mr. Nowak stopped posting when it was just a one-sided SC bash fest. It was fun for like 5 minutes but then I was just waiting for someone to step up.
 
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