The Star Citizen Thread v5

[GordFreeman]

Gord, talk about Star Citizen.

It's that simple.

Granted, there isn't all *that* much to talk about, seeing as it's still very much a glorified tech demo and all, but it would be nice to kinda stay on subject.

Oh, and that subject *does* include discussing the prior performance (or lack thereof) of the man who is fronting this whole thing. Sorry if it doesn't meet your exacting standards of deceitful deception, but thems are the breaks.

Any more exceptions you need to put in your fine print?

I am discussing how people are talking about Star Citizen. That's everyone's favourite pas time here! Every time you link to another forum you are doing the exact same thing.

 

[ChiefHitt]

*Shrugs* What can I say?


CiG are just full of surprises it seems.

I mean they have concept artists on the payroll, correct?

WHY on earth do they feel the need to "borrow" art instead of just, oh, I don't know, create their own? I mean they are Graphics artists right??

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I watched the beginning of that 10FTC with the lead of the German studio. (I know, I'm bringing up older topics, deal with it )

I can see exhaustion on his face...nothing more. Having had to relate business folks with developers, I'm well aware of the outstanding presentation and interpersonal skills of the average developer Nothing really that alarming about his demeanor.

What I do find alarming is the starts and stops, looking to the ceiling for guidance and apprehension about saying the wrong stuff. Especially in regards to hiring engineers. I don't think people always understand how hard it is to hire a good developer. You can build up from the ground or you can find one with experience. Option A takes a long time but costs much less. Option B gets you the experience you need right now but at a premium.

That premium doesn't stop at salary. Good engineers want to work on good projects. They don't want to work on a language that was the cool programming language two years ago. They want to be cutting edge, they want complex problems and they want to work for a clear vision. The negative press that CIG has been getting (true or not) is hugely detrimental to their hiring pool. I don't want to know the kind of questions they are having to answer in the interviews (in a lot of cases, with experienced engineers, they are interviewing the employer...not the other way around).

CIG needs to take control of the narrative. They need to find a way to convince people that they are really on track and it is still going to be a damn good game.

An extremely TALL order at this point.

 

[ianw]

What I do find alarming is the starts and stops, looking to the ceiling for guidance and apprehension about saying the wrong stuff.

I know what you mean - there was an episode of something or other a few months back when they wheeled on some poor sap and he mentioned something like - "you know they're redoing all the animations again" with a nod and a very earnest look like couldn't belive they weren't up to speed (not verbatim before anyone starts hyperventilating) and Ben & Co sort of looked at him liked he'd just curled one out on the sofa and then quickly changed the subject.

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

Any more exceptions you need to put in your fine print?

I am discussing how people are talking about Star Citizen. That's everyone's favourite pas time here! Every time you link to another forum you are doing the exact same thing.

Stop with the attempts at "humour" with the winks and the like.


When you do it, it just comes off as very fake, not amusing and, well, kinda trying to put a brave face on all the bad news whilst your crying inside, typing your best CiG Defence Force spiel.


So, what about that 2.4 eh? Is it shaping up to be the CoD: Infinite Warfare "killer"? To be a better show than what (potentially) Bioware will show with the Mass Effect: Andromeda reveal coming up in a few days time?


You've *obviously* played the 2.4 Alpha to such a degree of completeness that we on the poor side of the space game line obviously have no *real* idea of how glorious Squadron 42 and Star Citizen will eventually be in 2016.

 

[SkUnimatrix]

Wait for it.... wait for it......
...here comes the contradiction...

You have zero proof that the same devs responsible for physics are working on implementation of clothing. And as already stated, the artists responsible for clothing cannot work on physics.

Calix, the dev who was working on the flight model revisions last fall, got pulled off that task and placed in the task of another round of white boxing on the Caterpillar back in Jan. So yes, the physics programmer is now working on art assets.

 

[milligna]

An extremely TALL order at this point.

Especially with the great leadership going on.

"One production phenomenon that has become familiar to anyone working under Roberts is ‘Unapproval.’ That is, when something that was previously approved becomes unacceptable later on in production for reasons known to Roberts only. It is usually based on whim or a nebulous quality bar that has shifted. When you get approval only to have it revoked later on, repeatedly, approval becomes meaningless. It is no longer a metric of progression. It does not energize or motivate you. It is met with apathy or cynicism. Redoing the same asset over and over again kills the spirit, and I suspect this was largely the reason the UK character team collapsed." - David Jennison, former lead character artist

A shame we can't unapprove CR and let his brother finish the project.

 

[Monk]

Calix, the dev who was working on the flight model revisions last fall, got pulled off that task and placed in the task of another round of white boxing on the Caterpillar back in Jan. So yes, the physics programmer is now working on art assets.

And he didn't quit?

If that happened to one of my teams, I'm sure they would all walk.

 

[Backer42]

That premium doesn't stop at salary. Good engineers want to work on good projects. They don't want to work on a language that was the cool programming language two years ago. They want to be cutting edge, they want complex problems and they want to work for a clear vision. The negative press that CIG has been getting (true or not) is hugely detrimental to their hiring pool. I don't want to know the kind of questions they are having to answer in the interviews (in a lot of cases, with experienced engineers, they are interviewing the employer...not the other way around).

I think having to go through an interview with CIG's head of HR is reason enough to not apply.

Broken mismanaged projects also damage your career as top-tier developer, therefore you avoid those. Also CIG seems to talk bad about "leavers" (ex-employees) and such employers you avoid at all cost.

So the bad press isn't the sole reason for talent not showing up anymore.

 

[ZeeWolf]

I watched the beginning of that 10FTC with the lead of the German studio. (I know, I'm bringing up older topics, deal with it )

I can see exhaustion on his face...nothing more. Having had to relate business folks with developers, I'm well aware of the outstanding presentation and interpersonal skills of the average developer Nothing really that alarming about his demeanor.

What I do find alarming is the starts and stops, looking to the ceiling for guidance and apprehension about saying the wrong stuff. Especially in regards to hiring engineers. I don't think people always understand how hard it is to hire a good developer. You can build up from the ground or you can find one with experience. Option A takes a long time but costs much less. Option B gets you the experience you need right now but at a premium.

That premium doesn't stop at salary. Good engineers want to work on good projects. They don't want to work on a language that was the cool programming language two years ago. They want to be cutting edge, they want complex problems and they want to work for a clear vision. The negative press that CIG has been getting (true or not) is hugely detrimental to their hiring pool. I don't want to know the kind of questions they are having to answer in the interviews (in a lot of cases, with experienced engineers, they are interviewing the employer...not the other way around).

CIG needs to take control of the narrative. They need to find a way to convince people that they are really on track and it is still going to be a damn good game.

True, although I found in the games industry location &, salary are usually more important than a little negative press. I found myself having to be interviewed for a different studio in the SAME company because my project was canned and with salaries being slightly lower than other development jobs (because it's more rewarding) some devs move about quite a bit as is the nature of the industry. I'd imagine the prospect of working on Star Citizen is still going to be more appealing than generic sports games and casual console/mobile fodder for some. They do, at least, have the appearance of an employer with funding. Also, if you Google SC the media in general seems quite positive still.

 

[GordFreeman]

Is it shaping up to be the CoD: Infinite Warfare "killer"? To be a better show than what (potentially) Bioware will show with the Mass Effect: Andromeda reveal coming up in a few days time?

Insignificant, talk about Star Citizen.

It's that simple.

I couldn't care less if SC's current state is 'better' than COD or ME.

 

[Backer42]

And he didn't quit?

If that happened to one of my teams, I'm sure they would all walk.

I don't know where this specific developer works, but for the magic Germans their employment laws are quite rigid: They can't quit before three months notice. Also they can't even go work elsewhere, if wage payments are overdue. These poor saps will actually be forced to show up at the workplace by German law, even when CIG runs out of money and they don't get paid anymore.

 

[Monk]

True, although I found in the games industry location &, salary are usually more important than a little negative press. I found myself having to be interviewed for a different studio in the SAME company because my project was canned and with salaries being slightly lower than other development jobs (because it's more rewarding) some devs move about quite a bit as is the nature of the industry. I'd imagine the prospect of working on Star Citizen is still going to be more appealing than generic sports games and casual console/mobile fodder for some. They do, at least, have the appearance of an employer with funding. Also, if you Google SC the media in general seems quite positive still.

Ahh, that is true...most major press are just waiting for something concrete. The bloggers though...those bloggers

Just as a quick experiment, I compared the google news search of SC and then CIG...SC results are mostly hopeful and "wow, so cool"...CIG results are more along the lines of such and such has left, missing E3, Derek Smart and dev updates.

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

I couldn't care less if SC's current state is 'better' than COD or ME.

Ahh, so you are openly admitting there is a chance that SC or SQ42 in their current states, are "worse" than the aforementioned CoD and ME?

But how can this be so? I thought SC/SQ42 were *already* far superior in every possible way to any games past, present and upcoming.

Is that so Gord, just for clarification?

 

[Monk]

I don't know where this specific developer works, but for the magic Germans their employment laws are quite rigid: They can't quit before three months notice. Also they can't even go work elsewhere, if wage payments are overdue. These poor saps will actually be forced to show up at the workplace by German law, even when CIG runs out of money and they don't get paid anymore.

Oh , really?

Please forgive my surprise...I live and work at an "At-will employment" state. I can be fired in the next 5 minutes, conversely, I can walk out and never return.

Who does this policy protect?

 

[GordFreeman]

Ahh, so you are openly admitting there is a chance that SC or SQ42 in their current states, are "worse" than the aforementioned CoD and ME?

Sure. It's possible. That doesn't bother me.

But how can this be so? I thought SC/SQ42 were *already* far superior in every possible way to any games past, present and upcoming.

I've never said that. You must be projecting.

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

True, although I found in the games industry location &, salary are usually more important than a little negative press. I found myself having to be interviewed for a different studio in the SAME company because my project was canned and with salaries being slightly lower than other development jobs (because it's more rewarding) some devs move about quite a bit as is the nature of the industry. I'd imagine the prospect of working on Star Citizen is still going to be more appealing than generic sports games and casual console/mobile fodder for some. They do, at least, have the appearance of an employer with funding. Also, if you Google SC the media in general seems quite positive still.

You'll find that's because a lot of the gaming media are holding off saying anything negative until more details come to the fore, even though there is enough evidence being produced showing that Star Citizen and Squadron 42 are in quite a lot of difficulty.

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Sure. It's possible. That doesn't bother me.


I've never said that. You must be projecting.

I never project.

I'm just mirroring the usual Defence Force spiel about SC, or referencing comments made by the likes of ROBERTS himself.... Or are you calling him a *liar* too?

Come now, that won't look too appealing when your overseers checking out how your deflecting efforts are going.

Also your reply is rather revealing... Tell me, when WAS the last time you played 2.4? Or for that matter, 2.3?

 

[ZeeWolf]

Ahh, that is true...most major press are just waiting for something concrete. The bloggers though...those bloggers

Just as a quick experiment, I compared the google news search of SC and then CIG...SC results are mostly hopeful and "wow, so cool"...CIG results are more along the lines of such and such has left, missing E3, Derek Smart and dev updates.

When I left Codemasters all I wanted to do was move back to South East UK, with Guildford not being the gaming Hollywood it is today I had interviews at Lionhead, Criterion, Argonaut and quite a few smaller companies that have since vanished. With only one years experience and no titles under my belt I had to get a proper serious dev job to locate where I wanted. That was 15 years ago, I know that some of the guys & gals that started out there with me have since gone on to work on all kinds of titles most of which would probably make the average gamer go "meh" but still more interesting that the plethora of boring software I've developed since which has probably been upgraded away by now. I think quite a few of them with kids have tried to stay around the Warwickshire area too which is where a few games companies like Codemasters are situated. When Blitz or Lionhead were closed recently I'm sure that many of the top devs were primarily looking for work that didn't require them to relocate.

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

Well, I don't know about you guys, but it appears some backers of Star Citizen feel that the issue with the rather broken tutorial (which as we now know, looks likely to be "switched off" rather than fixed by CiG) feel that this games' tutorial isn't meant for, well, "gamers"....

 

[GordFreeman]

Also your reply is rather revealing... Tell me, when WAS the last time you played 2.4? Or for that matter, 2.3?

HAHAHA! Buddy........ I've already stated that I haven't played SC in a while.

Nice detective work there though Sherlock.

 

[Monk]

Well, I don't know about you guys, but it appears some backers of Star Citizen feel that the issue with the rather broken tutorial (which as we now know, looks likely to be "switched off" rather than fixed by CiG) feel that this games' tutorial isn't meant for, well, "gamers"....


http://i.imgur.com/AoeMHyS.png

What does that even mean?

I need to play through the tutorial if I'm going to test it...play and test are intrinsically tied.

And it isn't difficult to navigate, from a UI/UX perspective. The thing just doesn't work.

Attempting to find sentience on Reddit is an exercise in futility.