The Star Citizen Thread v5
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The people who are claiming to now be making significant progress and to have learned from their mistakes are the same people who've been claiming inaccurately that nothing was wrong for the last couple of years. There's nothing to indicate what they say now is any more accurate than the last two years of spin. And there's a lot to indicate Chris Roberts is repeating all his mistakes from Freelancer.
You can't trust CiG/RSI marketing, you have to judge results if they ever achieve any.
Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat
Banned
And in another example of things Chris Roberts said but apparently didn't really mean...
But of course, this before all the money flooded in and priorities changed. Citizens wanted the scope to increase and Roberts would have been made to recklessly shattered the hopes and dreams of a (small portion) of the gaming public!
So just disregard what Chris said then. It was OBVIOUS he was just using a really loose definition of a time frame and these things are always subject to (massive) change!
buy an idris
But of course, this before all the money flooded in and priorities changed. Citizens wanted the scope to increase and Roberts would have been made to recklessly shattered the hopes and dreams of a (small portion) of the gaming public!
So just disregard what Chris said then. It was OBVIOUS he was just using a really loose definition of a time frame and these things are always subject to (massive) change!
buy an idris
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Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat
Banned
Elite Dangerous probably could have done with a some extra time to develop, but I guess FDev had to set a release date and didn't want to risk even further delay to potentially stall interest from players to buy the game. Not ideal certainly, but I don't think they've done too badly in the long run with how the game has evolved since then.
Star Citizen has made no real progress though since it's Kickstarter phase, or whatever progress has been made has been hampered by a litany of issues that you outlined in your comment.
Where I don't agree with you though is the assessment that SC *seems* to be making real progress now. Where has it done so? Based on what? The current PU, where the adding of a new location (as full of bugs as the rest of the PU) and some virtual shops, a couple of new armor selections is somehow a source of optimism within fans that things are really moving forward(?!)
The virtually untouched (and still unbalanced and buggy) Arena Commander?
The Hanger module, that still doesn't allow friends to meet up and see what their buddy's collection of ships look like?
The tutorial is still unavailable.
And what of Squadron 42. It's been hinted at and mentioned during this year (when it is supposed to be released btw), but not one second of gameplay footage has been shown yet. Meanwhile erstwhile competitors (Infinite Warfare, Mass Effect: Andromeda) have either shown significant segments of in-game content (and are within a month of actual release in CoD: IW'S case) or revealed how their game world will look like and play.
I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing that much "progress" to be making much noise about, outside of the latest round of AtV and 10ftC promotional waffle.
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The hard truth is this:
First they had no money so they turned to crowdfunding to be able to make a game.
Then the money started flowing and everything was awesome for a while.
Then the money kept flowing in despite them stating they now have "enough money to finish the whole game", but they couldn't say "no" to more money, so they increased the scope AND claimed that pledging more money would get the game done faster.
Now we're rapidly approaching the end of 2016, they are now reducing the scope down to a "minimum viable product" with no release date in sight while at the same time realizing that Fred Brooks was right after all, and nine women can't give birth to a child in one month.
However, the people I had fierce discussions with back at the end of 2014, who told me that I would have to eat my words "early 2016 at the very very latest, but most likely much sooner than that", are either gone or simply forgot about their previous claims.
Oh and both SQ42 and 3.0 are pushed back to 2017, and the religious nutjobs went through their classic dance routine for both: First they claim it's false information, probably from dsmart. Then they claim the gaming media is wrong too. Death threats are issued. Then CIG finally admits it in a half-sincere fashion ("We never said 2016... what's that? our own trailer? Sorry, have to go now!"), and then they are super fine with it ("It's better for the game anyway!")
First they had no money so they turned to crowdfunding to be able to make a game.
Then the money started flowing and everything was awesome for a while.
Then the money kept flowing in despite them stating they now have "enough money to finish the whole game", but they couldn't say "no" to more money, so they increased the scope AND claimed that pledging more money would get the game done faster.
Now we're rapidly approaching the end of 2016, they are now reducing the scope down to a "minimum viable product" with no release date in sight while at the same time realizing that Fred Brooks was right after all, and nine women can't give birth to a child in one month.
However, the people I had fierce discussions with back at the end of 2014, who told me that I would have to eat my words "early 2016 at the very very latest, but most likely much sooner than that", are either gone or simply forgot about their previous claims.
Oh and both SQ42 and 3.0 are pushed back to 2017, and the religious nutjobs went through their classic dance routine for both: First they claim it's false information, probably from dsmart. Then they claim the gaming media is wrong too. Death threats are issued. Then CIG finally admits it in a half-sincere fashion ("We never said 2016... what's that? our own trailer? Sorry, have to go now!"), and then they are super fine with it ("It's better for the game anyway!")
I disagree with this, first ED was 100% as promised from day one -offline mode. It simply cant come as a surprise to anyone.
CR received a huge amount of free money from private people, FD didn't and needed to make money from day one.
There are a big difference here. So while CR and Co. fooled around trying to find the right rhythm, ED and FD slowly tugged along and updated the game. Regarding if SC/CIG are make progress I would say, who will cover all the money lost? who is going to cover for all the "learning expenses" ?
Unless you're a complete fool, you should ask these questions ot I got a bridge that will fit just your needs.
(not aimed at you Lobstris, its general speaking)
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Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat
Banned
Goddamn it FDev! Let me rep the talking cetacean ok!
Toumal, you are spot on there. But be prepared to be barracked for suggesting what you did in that comment.
"It's just speculation!".
"You're guessing!".
"Have you got any insider info to make such a claim?"
"Do you work in game development? Because if not then you're just someone with no idea what he's talking about who is too impatient for Star Citizen to come out!"
And so on and so forth....
You know during elite dangerous kickstarter i got picture that they would do base game on release then expand that with seasonal passes.
[video=youtube_share;EM0Gcl7iUM8]https://youtu.be/EM0Gcl7iUM8[/video]
So i knew they would take this approach.
And you know braben doesnt have 120 million to build his vision. The barebones release was caused by that, different budget you see.
Personally i think braben with 120 million would have achieved much more than chris roberts in same amount of time. Proof is seen in current state of elite dangerous when compared to star citizen.
even kotaku article proofs that. With english studio accomplishing things faster than rest of studios (frankfurt is unknown on its speed) and where is frontier located? in england.
And frontier has been developing games since 1994.
Cig has been developing a game since 2011.
people would have gained more bang for their bucks if they had been investing in elite dangerous instead of star citizen.
The greatness of chris roberts is solely in marketing his ideas, not building em. Simply said he promises lots of things he is never going to fulfill. recent example for this would be realistic aging promise
http://scqa.info/?show=10FTC&episode=19&qid=6
http://scqa.info/?show=10FTC&episode=42&qid=2
and here he is backtracking on his promises
https://youtu.be/I2SBYtj9pis?t=1284
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Thanks for the flowers, Galaxy Cat!
To which I can happily say, no, I do software for real life space stuff
Not that it matters, because you don't have to be a game developer to understand software development.
To which I can happily say, no, I do software for real life space stuff
Not that it matters, because you don't have to be a game developer to understand software development.Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat
Banned
Thanks for the flowers, Galaxy Cat!
To which I can happily say, no, I do software for real life space stuff
Your welcome Toumal!
And as you say, development, whatever the field, is still development. Seeing something that would cause issues and problems in a different field of expertise can be still understood, like how mismanagement, cutting corners, cutting costs, overbearing management, passing off responsibility to somebody else, etc, can lead to things like engineering accidents, fraudulent practices, airliner disasters and other incidents.
Just because I or yourself don't work in the field of game development, doesn't mean we can't actually recognize and see the common symptoms of troubled productions that is seen in so many aspects of life.
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Another post I've handily "borrowed" from those denizens of strafe and disaster over on the SA forums.
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Citizencon will prove you wrong! Another show will show you how wrong you are about anything with SC and everything is just fine!
Its a good thing for SC to have that experience!
Guys it only took SC 124.000.000 to get this far! And look what they achieved in the past year when development started!
The hype is real!
Aslong we give them money they will be able to achieve the best space game evar!
The face i make right now would break any mo-cop trying to process this expression of crying and laughing at the same time...
Its a good thing for SC to have that experience!
Guys it only took SC 124.000.000 to get this far! And look what they achieved in the past year when development started!
The hype is real!
Aslong we give them money they will be able to achieve the best space game evar!
The face i make right now would break any mo-cop trying to process this expression of crying and laughing at the same time...
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The Kotaku article is very cleverly written because many aspects can be viewed from different angles. eg CR laments those who wouldn't say yes to his demands and celebrates that he was right and they were wrong when what he wanted is produced, which can be read as strong leadership, motivating his employees to produce his dreams. However, what about the person on the receiving end? Imagine coming into work each day and wondering what game the boss played last night and which part of it you now need to incorporate into the game you are developing. Even when you know that every module that touches that piece needs to be refactored to accommodate it; you know you have to answer yes, because no isn't an answer. I would not wish to be a producer in that environment. Strong leadership is great, but there is a careful balance to be drawn and this borders on dictatorial.
Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat
Banned
That's the thing though, Chris Roberts' brand of "leadership" is not strong at all. It's easy to throw your weight around, brow beat your underlings, make demands that you feel are reasonable even if the deadline is tight, ask for changes to how something looks because of the latest thing you have seen on TV/computer game trade show/movie/etc.
It is easy because there is NO OVER-SIGHT. Nobody watching over HIS shoulder asking how things are going.
Nobody pointing their finger to the ticking hands of the expensive wristwatch as a big deadline races closer.
No big intimating office populated by the "suits" waiting for Chris to explain just what the hold up is with production.
Chris is doing this because he doesn't have any ACCOUNTABILITY for his actions. And that suits him just fine.
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I think in a light of SC/CIG criticism it should be pointed out that majority of ED players critical to SC doesn't really want to see SC to fail. For them mostly it is another space game, a bit different scope, a bit more story driven MMORPG style. What really triggers most of them - and me - is constant barage of:
* How ED is boring and SC/NMS/next wunderkid will come and destroy it;
* How SC is most amazing game ever developed (like, really?);
* How CR is perfect visionary and can do no wrong (ohh yes, I am aware I have similar bias towards FD and David. Even then though I have been critical to lot of their suggestions and ideas);
* How everything CIG does is unique and "first ever" (ProcGen - I mean, really? PG was blasted by CR low hack job and not worthy of his concepts. It took several years to change his mind lol);
This article doesn't bring much for us to the table - we worry more about 2.2 beta than what's going on with CIG to be honest. Yes, it confirms some of suspicious about lack of basic mgt/comms skill with CR and CIG leadership. It is hard to deliver product in such atmosphere and frankly if I were SC backer I would get worried because all these mistakes costs a lot.
In nutshell, for rest of us outside CR reality bubble is very hard to compete with dream CR has sold to his followers. And that's frankly my biggest issue. It is like craving for that perfect looking girl while ignoring awesome/fun ones around you.
* How ED is boring and SC/NMS/next wunderkid will come and destroy it;
* How SC is most amazing game ever developed (like, really?);
* How CR is perfect visionary and can do no wrong (ohh yes, I am aware I have similar bias towards FD and David. Even then though I have been critical to lot of their suggestions and ideas);
* How everything CIG does is unique and "first ever" (ProcGen - I mean, really? PG was blasted by CR low hack job and not worthy of his concepts. It took several years to change his mind lol);
This article doesn't bring much for us to the table - we worry more about 2.2 beta than what's going on with CIG to be honest. Yes, it confirms some of suspicious about lack of basic mgt/comms skill with CR and CIG leadership. It is hard to deliver product in such atmosphere and frankly if I were SC backer I would get worried because all these mistakes costs a lot.
In nutshell, for rest of us outside CR reality bubble is very hard to compete with dream CR has sold to his followers. And that's frankly my biggest issue. It is like craving for that perfect looking girl while ignoring awesome/fun ones around you.
Repped +1 and o7
religious nutjobs are the ones who are to blame, however CR is also a big factor here. This man can't manage a game studio, he should leave that to people who know how to deal with it.
He should be lock up in a room with some key people and then explain his vision, after that he should only be a consultant, nothing more nothing less.
in a normal business world he would not last 5 minutes!
haha, very funny. Even though this is just the first in the series he is writing, I am happy that he didn't mention me, as that would detract from the article.
Incidentally, this was one year to the day.
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The article was so well laid out and written, that it presents a conundrum for even the most toxic backers who simply don't know how to respond to it. From a psychological standpoint, it stands to reason that they do have those concerns expressed, but simply can't express them publicly as that would be them "losing" face. Note: Their worst fear is not that croberts was wrong; it's that dsmart was right - about anything
But give it time. Even though not deriding the author will come to their senses by the time other parts of the article go online.
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Have they approached you about being in the making of Star Citizen documentary yet ?.
Yeah. https://twitter.com/sethnash/status/779477684216696832
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Absolutely.
Also, they are conveniently ignoring the fact that it was through their own very actions that I became so enmeshed in this farce. It's all on them; not me. All I did was write a blog saying the game couldn't possibly be made as pitched, nor with that CryEngine as the baseline choice. And so far, I have been proven to be unequivocally correct. Though they try to ignore that as well; even though it is in fact the pivotal issue that has seen the game go through five years of development, and with no end in sight. Even as the execs get rich, and the teams pull (well deserved in most cases) a pay check.
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^this. All of it. That is all.
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LOL!! No. But I have a few pages for ALL of them in my book.
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