The Star Citizen Thread v5
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CMDR_Orlando
Banned
Star Citizen: "It's All Talk"
[squeeeee]
Taken from a post in NeoGaf:
Here are my thoughts on Star Citizen. I backed about 2 years ago for $40. That bought me a basic ship, and gave me access to Star Citizen and eventually, Squadron 42. I could load up the game at that point, and walk around in my virtual hangar. I could climb into my ship, sit in the flight chair, or lay down in the ship'a tiny little bed. That ship was the Aurora, and I thought it was the coolest thing. My imagination ran wild.
Fast forward some amount of time later. The dogfighting module is out. I can actually take my ship out, fly it around and fight against enemy drones. Flying what was up to this point a model ship was surreal. The controls were heavy and sluggish, but in a good way! My little ship felt like what I imagined a little ship to feel like flying. Flying the ship felt realistic. I could see all of the navigational thrusters on the bottom firing realistically to position me how I wanted to be, real physics simulation in full effect. It felt good. More importantly, it felt cool. Even in my space tub, I felt badass.
Later on, the Cutlass Black got a super slick trailer, and I knew that was the ship I had to have. A multi-crew space pirate ship. Max crew of 3 including pilot, co-pilot, and gunner. The ship included a large cargo bay and loading ramp for ample plunder. I knew I wanted to play with friends, and I knew this ship was going to let me have my own crew. I was stoked.
Flying the Cutlass was another eye opener. This ship is HUGE! It wasn't nearly as agile as I imagined it would be, (apparently something that is currently undergoing revision). I fought against my buddy and future shipmate in single combat in the updated Dogfighting Module, which now supported multiplayer. He was flying one of the new single person starter ships, and his superior speed and handling gave him the upper hand.
My ship started to explode, but unlike in my Aurora, it exploded in different pieces. An engine blew off, but I could still fly. Part of a wing got destroyed, but I was still in my ship, and could struggle against him! I mean, I was a dead duck, but this revelation was incredible to me. My ship was being destroyed in individual pieces, but I was still somehow alive inside the preserved portion. I guess I'd never played a game like that.
Fast forward again and multiplayer dogfighting has been expanded again. You can actually land your ship, get out, and join other players on THEIR ships. The very VERY first flickers of multi-crew ship gameplay was sparking to life.
Months later, the first online player hub, ArcCorp became available. I now had the ability to walk around in a simulated environment and interact with other players. There wasn't a lot to do, but the map was incredibly detailed for a first iteration, and it really felt like the "MMO" part of the game was starting to come together.
More time passes and now Port Olisar is available. An even larger hub area with more people to interact with, a star port that you can call your ship from, get in, and then fly around in space. A small glimpse into what the future was holding.
The game now today, has even more locations, on foot FPS elements implemented, working multi-crew components where you can join someone on their ship, and take on a role at a computer station beyond that of the pilot. To my knowledge, the only one available right now may be "power systems management," but still a worthy role to have filled in a fight.
I remember being shot from behind in early dogfighting and trying to desperately fly away while shifting shields to the rear. It's a challenge; especially on a controller. Having a dedicated person to do that would certainly have made my life easier. Knowing that I can be that person now, it's an empowering feeling.
Star Citizen has a long way to go. But it's also come a very long way. It may not seem like that from the outside looking in, but as someone who's played the game, and having come from what you could barely call a game, almost no features, to the breadth that it is today, it's pretty astonishing. Hundreds of people have worked for thousands of hours to make this game what it is now, and I'm impressed by how far it's come.
I think you see videos like Mass Effect Andromeda's PS4 Pro trailer, and there's the cute tag at the bottom of the screen that says "Footage of alpha build" or whatever. Alpha my . The game itself may technically be in alpha, as in all of the assets aren't in and the game in its current state cannot be completed, but the demo they showed was polished to hell. Having worked in the game development industry, our games that were in alpha were missing sounds, textures, models, tons of . Most games in an alpha state, you would not want to show off.
Star Citizen is a shining example of why. They are unpolished, unfinished messes. Things are constantly, constantly changing. If Joe Consumer watched ME:A's "alpha" video, and then watched any gameplay segment of SC, they'd be like, holy , both of these games are in the same stage of development? ME:A is supposed to come out in like what, Q1 sometime? So 6ish months, and we've seen a 2 minute clip of one tiny part of the game. The game is probably an ugly, unfun, primordial mess still. That said, as it enters beta and Release Candidate phases before going gold, I fully expect it to mature into the game we are all looking forward to playing.
For anyone that thinks Star Citizen is never coming out, please refer to The Last Guardian, and Final Fantasy XV. Two games that have been in development for the better part of a decade, still haven't been released, and have probably both have blown a ton of cash getting to where they are today. This isn't unprecedented. What IS unprecedented is the in depth look we are getting to the day in day out development of the game.
If you have any doubts, play it yourself. The game frequently features "Fly Free" weekends around conventions where you can download the game and play around in all the current features.
Here are my thoughts on Star Citizen. I backed about 2 years ago for $40. That bought me a basic ship, and gave me access to Star Citizen and eventually, Squadron 42. I could load up the game at that point, and walk around in my virtual hangar. I could climb into my ship, sit in the flight chair, or lay down in the ship'a tiny little bed. That ship was the Aurora, and I thought it was the coolest thing. My imagination ran wild.
Fast forward some amount of time later. The dogfighting module is out. I can actually take my ship out, fly it around and fight against enemy drones. Flying what was up to this point a model ship was surreal. The controls were heavy and sluggish, but in a good way! My little ship felt like what I imagined a little ship to feel like flying. Flying the ship felt realistic. I could see all of the navigational thrusters on the bottom firing realistically to position me how I wanted to be, real physics simulation in full effect. It felt good. More importantly, it felt cool. Even in my space tub, I felt badass.
Later on, the Cutlass Black got a super slick trailer, and I knew that was the ship I had to have. A multi-crew space pirate ship. Max crew of 3 including pilot, co-pilot, and gunner. The ship included a large cargo bay and loading ramp for ample plunder. I knew I wanted to play with friends, and I knew this ship was going to let me have my own crew. I was stoked.
Flying the Cutlass was another eye opener. This ship is HUGE! It wasn't nearly as agile as I imagined it would be, (apparently something that is currently undergoing revision). I fought against my buddy and future shipmate in single combat in the updated Dogfighting Module, which now supported multiplayer. He was flying one of the new single person starter ships, and his superior speed and handling gave him the upper hand.
My ship started to explode, but unlike in my Aurora, it exploded in different pieces. An engine blew off, but I could still fly. Part of a wing got destroyed, but I was still in my ship, and could struggle against him! I mean, I was a dead duck, but this revelation was incredible to me. My ship was being destroyed in individual pieces, but I was still somehow alive inside the preserved portion. I guess I'd never played a game like that.
Fast forward again and multiplayer dogfighting has been expanded again. You can actually land your ship, get out, and join other players on THEIR ships. The very VERY first flickers of multi-crew ship gameplay was sparking to life.
Months later, the first online player hub, ArcCorp became available. I now had the ability to walk around in a simulated environment and interact with other players. There wasn't a lot to do, but the map was incredibly detailed for a first iteration, and it really felt like the "MMO" part of the game was starting to come together.
More time passes and now Port Olisar is available. An even larger hub area with more people to interact with, a star port that you can call your ship from, get in, and then fly around in space. A small glimpse into what the future was holding.
The game now today, has even more locations, on foot FPS elements implemented, working multi-crew components where you can join someone on their ship, and take on a role at a computer station beyond that of the pilot. To my knowledge, the only one available right now may be "power systems management," but still a worthy role to have filled in a fight.
I remember being shot from behind in early dogfighting and trying to desperately fly away while shifting shields to the rear. It's a challenge; especially on a controller. Having a dedicated person to do that would certainly have made my life easier. Knowing that I can be that person now, it's an empowering feeling.
Star Citizen has a long way to go. But it's also come a very long way. It may not seem like that from the outside looking in, but as someone who's played the game, and having come from what you could barely call a game, almost no features, to the breadth that it is today, it's pretty astonishing. Hundreds of people have worked for thousands of hours to make this game what it is now, and I'm impressed by how far it's come.
I think you see videos like Mass Effect Andromeda's PS4 Pro trailer, and there's the cute tag at the bottom of the screen that says "Footage of alpha build" or whatever. Alpha my . The game itself may technically be in alpha, as in all of the assets aren't in and the game in its current state cannot be completed, but the demo they showed was polished to hell. Having worked in the game development industry, our games that were in alpha were missing sounds, textures, models, tons of . Most games in an alpha state, you would not want to show off.
Star Citizen is a shining example of why. They are unpolished, unfinished messes. Things are constantly, constantly changing. If Joe Consumer watched ME:A's "alpha" video, and then watched any gameplay segment of SC, they'd be like, holy , both of these games are in the same stage of development? ME:A is supposed to come out in like what, Q1 sometime? So 6ish months, and we've seen a 2 minute clip of one tiny part of the game. The game is probably an ugly, unfun, primordial mess still. That said, as it enters beta and Release Candidate phases before going gold, I fully expect it to mature into the game we are all looking forward to playing.
For anyone that thinks Star Citizen is never coming out, please refer to The Last Guardian, and Final Fantasy XV. Two games that have been in development for the better part of a decade, still haven't been released, and have probably both have blown a ton of cash getting to where they are today. This isn't unprecedented. What IS unprecedented is the in depth look we are getting to the day in day out development of the game.
If you have any doubts, play it yourself. The game frequently features "Fly Free" weekends around conventions where you can download the game and play around in all the current features.
[squeeeee]
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That is the best thing I have ever seen CR produce 
CMDR_Orlando
Banned
More quality posts from the Gaf thread:
"The problem with what you're saying here is that toxic work community, lack of realistic goals and internal miscommunications are loaded labels that befits every major game development studio that has projects with many hundreds of people in teams all over the world.
I don't work in games, but having worked in software I promise you- I absolutely promise you that this is the norm, and it is hell. It can be a living nightmare to work in this industry. Overwork, managers who ask the impossible, inefficent beaucracy across the entire structure.
The reason why this is apparent here is because Star Citizen has had a open ended transparent development.
That doesn't mean there is not legitimacy to the accusations- or at least some of them. But I am sure there are many comparable testimonials from developers who worked on Destiny, Metal Gear Solid, GTA, Assassin Creed and others. You always don't have enough time. The goals are always to high. You're ALWAYS being asked to deliver the impossible and things get rushed, and things are not done logical.
I wish I wish I wish so much that many gamers could see what it is like- To see the level of complete and utter chaos and abuse done by the grunt designers and programmers who have to slave to make the leads vision come to pass.
Every game has major features and systems cut. Every game starts out with a unrealistic spec sheet.
What you got here is a man- who has no investors saying when he has to stop. It's not like with Molyneaux or Kojima- Who eventually are forced to compromise on their vision. They have the perfect game in their head. There is no doubt about it. But the management and scope of the project is such that there is no way to fulfill it. Microsoft/EA/Kojima says "enough!" and the thing gets released- finished or not finished.
But we see games all the time that continues. FFXV- The Last Guardian. Entire gameplay systems gets scrapped. Months and quarters worth of tech and development gets wasted and things get rebooted. And the more ambitious the project the harder it is to realize.
I think this game is absolutely stunning. It's insane. Not since Shenmue have we seen a game of this level of ambitious and detail. And the usual stop blocks don't apply because roberts is not answering to nobody. I really hope he pulls it off.
I am optimistic. It's not that many months ago when they first showed the FPS module and it looked absolutely atrocious. But have you seen the new videos? Its like a different game. It looks as smooth as Crysis 3- It's responsive, the animations are more seamless. the reloading looks good. there is some very nice particle effects and that laggyness seems to be gone.
It's still a demo- But it went from looking "dear god no" to really damn good in a manner of months.
And what I take away from all this is that the iderative process- the process of showing something when it is dog and then fixing it slowly as the months roll by needs to be met with a certain level of patience. This is why developers polish alpha and beta versions to outragous levels. gamers run with it and pass judgment before the product is done. Its a shame because it hinders the level of feedback that could otherwise be achieved from the community if they could show the game in earlier stages without creating such levels of conspiracy and rapid judgment on a product that is so far from being finished."
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1283198&page=9
"The problem with what you're saying here is that toxic work community, lack of realistic goals and internal miscommunications are loaded labels that befits every major game development studio that has projects with many hundreds of people in teams all over the world.
I don't work in games, but having worked in software I promise you- I absolutely promise you that this is the norm, and it is hell. It can be a living nightmare to work in this industry. Overwork, managers who ask the impossible, inefficent beaucracy across the entire structure.
The reason why this is apparent here is because Star Citizen has had a open ended transparent development.
That doesn't mean there is not legitimacy to the accusations- or at least some of them. But I am sure there are many comparable testimonials from developers who worked on Destiny, Metal Gear Solid, GTA, Assassin Creed and others. You always don't have enough time. The goals are always to high. You're ALWAYS being asked to deliver the impossible and things get rushed, and things are not done logical.
I wish I wish I wish so much that many gamers could see what it is like- To see the level of complete and utter chaos and abuse done by the grunt designers and programmers who have to slave to make the leads vision come to pass.
Every game has major features and systems cut. Every game starts out with a unrealistic spec sheet.
What you got here is a man- who has no investors saying when he has to stop. It's not like with Molyneaux or Kojima- Who eventually are forced to compromise on their vision. They have the perfect game in their head. There is no doubt about it. But the management and scope of the project is such that there is no way to fulfill it. Microsoft/EA/Kojima says "enough!" and the thing gets released- finished or not finished.
But we see games all the time that continues. FFXV- The Last Guardian. Entire gameplay systems gets scrapped. Months and quarters worth of tech and development gets wasted and things get rebooted. And the more ambitious the project the harder it is to realize.
I think this game is absolutely stunning. It's insane. Not since Shenmue have we seen a game of this level of ambitious and detail. And the usual stop blocks don't apply because roberts is not answering to nobody. I really hope he pulls it off.
I am optimistic. It's not that many months ago when they first showed the FPS module and it looked absolutely atrocious. But have you seen the new videos? Its like a different game. It looks as smooth as Crysis 3- It's responsive, the animations are more seamless. the reloading looks good. there is some very nice particle effects and that laggyness seems to be gone.
It's still a demo- But it went from looking "dear god no" to really damn good in a manner of months.
And what I take away from all this is that the iderative process- the process of showing something when it is dog and then fixing it slowly as the months roll by needs to be met with a certain level of patience. This is why developers polish alpha and beta versions to outragous levels. gamers run with it and pass judgment before the product is done. Its a shame because it hinders the level of feedback that could otherwise be achieved from the community if they could show the game in earlier stages without creating such levels of conspiracy and rapid judgment on a product that is so far from being finished."
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1283198&page=9
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Yeah, because we should believe random quotes on forums.... and as you're not believeing random quotes on this forum it's a tad hypocritical, yeah?
If SC does actually release then the best anyone could say is - "it's about time" - it really is the absolute minimum.
CMDR_Orlando
Banned
Yeah, because we should believe random quotes on forums.... and as you're not believeing random quotes on this forum it's a tad hypocritical, yeah?
It's not about belief, it's about sharing opinions and understanding why one thinks how they think. You can understand people's reasoning and still not agree with them.
Which a lot of us are doing with you, y'know? And not because we're trolls or whatever...
Congratulations. You've managed to cherry-pick a random SC supporter's post from a forum. So what?
CMDR_Orlando
Banned
Well no one is saying any dissent opinion about Star Citizen is trolling. Consider each case on its own merits. [big grin]
People that tend to be highly critical of "everything star citizen" normally do it out of frustration and tend to repeat the same old fallacy's without understanding why those things happen in the first place, specially since most of them are recurrent in the industry.
Is there a "SA Only Post's Allowed" rule enforced that I don't know about?
Again, since Orlando keep stating the wrong thing, Procedural Generation does not make the "seamless" planetary landings. It is simply an algorithm used to create large amounts of data automatically rather than manually. This "new tech" - which has been around for decades - is not the "seamless" planetary landing.
No. But quoting entire posts from other forums for no other reason than that you agree with them adds very little to the conversation.
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Incorrect.
Some people have spent years in creative industries - hell, most industries! - and have seen projects run into the ground because of bad management. And some folks are getting deja vu here... but in this case the people who lose are not the publishers (who with anything less than armageddon can write some of it off against tax) but consumers.
The frustration is because folks are trying to explain these points to folks who simply write them off because of their opinion... And pro-tip: "fallacy" has a particular meaning. You're not using the word correctly.
Games development is no better or worse than many other industries. Don't you understand that? You have a product spec/development/release/support cycle like software in most areas. CIG is a special case as they do not have accountability to someone who can pull the plug. As a dev this could be really nice, as a consumer who has given them money it's really bad.
However, it is kinda funny people who don't know anything about game development telling other people who don't know anything about game development that their opinion is worthless because they don't know anything about game development... Definitely a reoccuring theme here, and one of the reasons why the thread keeps getting moderated, haha!
Hey ho.
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CMDR_Orlando
Banned
Seems to be a trend here, just running with the flow.
Does this seem like a company running into the ground?
[rolleyes]
Game Development is not the same as most of other big projects or even just traditional "Software Development".
The FUN factor is the end goal, and it's a highly subjective goal that most of the times can only be verified way later in development. That's why there's a lot of back and forth when making a game, lot's of things that might have seem cool and take a lot of time to make end up just not being fun. There goes scrapped work that costed an enormous amount of time and money. See Titan development altogether. At the very least $50 Million dollars down the drain. We are talking about Blizzard here, some of the most renowned gaming brains work there. Think about that for a second.
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Nothing cig have scrapped so far is through it not being fun. Star Marine was scrapped because they sub contracted to Spinal Tap's set designers...
Theranos.
CMDR_Orlando
Banned
Oh so it's from Duke Nukem to Theranos now... [squeeeee] [up]
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He saw NMS do it and Elite Dangerous and it looked brilliant, cut scenes would look old and outdated in comparison, Star Citizen was suppose to be a game that push PC to the MAX, no not just the max, it was current generation of hardware wouldn't be able to play it, so he wanted it for his game. He has form for this. He just happen have the magical germans this time to lay the blame for his own expanded vision on what Star Citizen should be.
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I don't remember reading anything within CRobert's response that involved what the Kotaku article featured. That response was for a publication that arbitrarily put a time limit for a response and ran with the story without giving a proper amount of time to respond about those source's accusations. The Escapist and the author who wrote that article deserved every bit of backlash they received. That piece was both one-sided and had a quite a lot of baseless accusations that involved age and racism.
The only thing that was irresponsible and embarrassing was trying to tie all that to Derek Smart (whom has a whole history with CRoberts going back to the 90's).
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