The Star Citizen Thread v5

[f.zlim]

Wooowee! This thread went full on comedy show overnight didn't it boys.

From the space intellectuals eager for a COD game to internet developers with no Star Citizen play time calling shots on how to make a game now we've seen it all haven't we boys?

LoL guess it's Time to pack it up boys at CIG!

Hamill, Oldman, Scully, Gollum the jig is up. Forget the mocap for Episode 3 cause this whole thing just got the boot! Those drats sons of guns at Activision just went full blast with their hundreds of millions of marketing and released 10 minutes worth of trailer footage so now its clear as water that Squadron42, is a goner. Absolutely, undoubtedly, assuredly, undeniably: Obsolete. It's dead Chris. Let it go.

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/yNtadai.png

But don't get balled up with the parody just yet.

There's valuable info to leaf through from the cod dev inverview, the comic cat forum "Activision shill" (am I doing this passive-aggressiveness thing right? j/k) added some pertinent info that was in cahoots until now, even if he didn't actually intended it was a great effort.

So let's read this carefully shall we:

GamesBeat: You’ve done ground combat in all of your games before, but the spaceships are new. Did you look at any past games for inspiration on how to tackle that?
Findley: We looked at everything we could. We looked at games. We looked at real fighter aircraft, the way they work. We looked at current-day ship designs. The thing we really wanted to do is have parity with the precision and the controllability with our ground stuff. The ground combat feels great. We wanted the space stuff to feel just as good. We went through two years of iteration on that control system.


Oh I'll be damned, 2 years of iteration to perfect the control flight system hein, for 1 Ship only, maybe they wanted to get the joystick feel by hook or crook. Considering that the main target is console players, I guess that gamepad was the predominant factor.

Oh well, budgets aside, the 25% Game Development Budget investment vs 75% Marketing Budget surely is paying off lol, it's even gotten the space elitist's excited and dis-considering the Father of the Space Soap Operas and the very first Big Franchise creator. Yeah let's just forget that Wing Commander & Freelancer were major hits and are among the best games of their generation.

Let's forget the problems that all games haves, in-development and after release. Fortunately Star Citizen has the budget to keep it's development ongoing without needing to rush it's release, other (most of the) games don't share the same luck and suffer on the long term development, just take Elite for instance and Engineers, it's getting a lot of flak but it's an important feature and part of something bigger but people just don't understand it and judge it just for what it is now.

It's so easy to constantly hate and mock Star Citizen for being exposed to bug's & glitches showcases lol, while it's exactly what it's supposed to be, they even make a official show about it: BugSmashers. But hey, let's hold hands and hoedown in parodys that we don't even understand because we never played the damn thing in the first place.

Yeah, air lock glitches/bugs whatever, network sync problems that everyone playing knows about for ages...
Sometimes it glitches sometimes it doesn't, has nothing with who presses «USE» lol > https://vid.me/4IEC

But yeah let's pretend this thread is informative and constructive because there's free-range to hate on everything CIG lol
Lettin' the cat outta the bag is a whole lot easier than puttin' it back so this tipsy sob is going to bed.
Ya'll have a good night.

2 years of iteration means the control system is in development and refinement together with the rest of the game during that two years.
What is so damned about that?
They also talked about the ground stuff, so the control is not just for the ship control itself.
Gameplay in a game is everything.
If control is broken, there is no gameplay and there is no game.

 

[Backer42]

2 years of iteration means the control system is in development and refinement together with the rest of the game during that two years.
What is so damned about that? They also talked about the ground stuff, so the control is not just for the ship control itself. Gameplay in a game is everything.
If control is broken, there is no gameplay and there is no game.

I said previously, that a lot of people involved in praising and promoting Star Citizen don't have a clue about video games. That includes the head of PR of the company making Star Citizen. They invent "cool" terms with no meaning and followers pick them up. While they miss the key element of a video game: control.

Control is everything in a game. Gamers and real game developers (like IW or FD) know that.

 

[dayrth]

The forum needs a drunk detector.

Just assume everyone is. You won't be far wrong

 

[Stigbob]

Wooowee! This thread went full on comedy show overnight didn't it boys.

This threads always hilarious, there's nothing new happening.

From the space intellectuals eager for a COD game to internet developers with no Star Citizen play time calling shots on how to make a game now we've seen it all haven't we boys?

We've yet to see the full collapse but as an internet intellectual who enjoys armchair game development I think it's coming, and I'm glad I didn't pay for it.

LoL guess it's Time to pack it up boys at CIG!

Unironically that might be the best approach, the later you leave a hard choice the worse the repercussions can become.

Hamill, Oldman, Scully, Gollum the jig is up. Forget the mocap for Episode 3 cause this whole thing just got the boot! Those drats sons of guns at Activision just went full blast with their hundreds of millions of marketing and released 10 minutes worth of trailer footage so now its clear as water that Squadron42, is a goner. Absolutely, undoubtedly, assuredly, undeniably: Obsolete. It's dead Chris. Let it go.

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/yNtadai.png

Those are some very, very expensive people, you namedropping them reminds me of the frankly ludicrous amount of time and resources that have been wasted on 90's style interactive FMV.

But don't get balled up with the parody just yet.

There's valuable info to leaf through from the cod dev inverview, the comic cat forum "Activision shill" (am I doing this passive-aggressiveness thing right? j/k) added some pertinent info that was in cahoots until now, even if he didn't actually intended it was a great effort.

I don't think you know what cahoots means.

So let's read this carefully shall we:

GamesBeat: You’ve done ground combat in all of your games before, but the spaceships are new. Did you look at any past games for inspiration on how to tackle that?
Findley: We looked at everything we could. We looked at games. We looked at real fighter aircraft, the way they work. We looked at current-day ship designs. The thing we really wanted to do is have parity with the precision and the controllability with our ground stuff. The ground combat feels great. We wanted the space stuff to feel just as good. We went through two years of iteration on that control system.


Oh I'll be damned, 2 years of iteration to perfect the control flight system hein, for 1 Ship only, maybe they wanted to get the joystick feel by hook or crook. Considering that the main target is console players, I guess that gamepad was the predominant factor.

That sounds great, time, effort and attention to detail in the implementation of the flight model one of the games basic foundations. Good stuff, CiG should take note.

Oh well, budgets aside, the 25% Game Development Budget investment vs 75% Marketing Budget surely is paying off lol, it's even gotten the space elitist's excited and dis-considering the Father of the Space Soap Operas and the very first Big Franchise creator. Yeah let's just forget that Wing Commander & Freelancer were major hits and are among the best games of their generation.

I don't understand how you can criticize activision for their advertising efforts when 90% of what CiG have pushed out is just that advertising. COD IW is also likely to live up to the advertising, SC have proven time and again that nothing they've ever said can be relied on. Their TOS has been rewritten specifically to allow them to fail to deliver whats been promised without recourse for the backers.

Let's forget the problems that all games haves, in-development and after release. Fortunately Star Citizen has the budget to keep it's development ongoing without needing to rush it's release, other (most of the) games don't share the same luck and suffer on the long term development, just take Elite for instance and Engineers, it's getting a lot of flak but it's an important feature and part of something bigger but people just don't understand it and judge it just for what it is now.

It's so easy to constantly hate and mock Star Citizen for being exposed to bug's & glitches showcases lol, while it's exactly what it's supposed to be, they even make a official show about it: BugSmashers. But hey, let's hold hands and hoedown in parodys that we don't even understand because we never played the damn thing in the first place.

If you mean the recent airlock "bug" it was shoddy implementation not an error. It was working as intended, we just weren't supposed to notice.

Horizons like every expansion or large patch in a released game has teething trouble and requires balancing. This is normal and FD do a great job of fixing issues, but SC hasn't reached the point of expansions and balance. SC is stuck in development hell and may well never reach that advanced stage of the process.

Yeah, air lock glitches/bugs whatever, network sync problems that everyone playing knows about for ages...
Sometimes it glitches sometimes it doesn't, has nothing with who presses «USE» lol > https://vid.me/4IEC

It's not a glitch, that's already been explained.

But yeah let's pretend this thread is informative and constructive because there's free-range to hate on everything CIG lol
Lettin' the cat outta the bag is a whole lot easier than puttin' it back so this tipsy sob is going to bed.
Ya'll have a good night.

The thread and it's posters don't need to be either informative or constructive, this is an internet discussion where everyone's entitled to their opinion.

 

[Vasea Azure]

If control is broken, there is no gameplay and there is no game.

I keep telling this - the worst part of SC for me so far are not the bugs but how my guy and ship reacts to my input. You can have the best art design in the universe but so what If controls are putting you off?

 

[f.zlim]

I keep telling this - the worst part of SC for me so far are not the bugs but how my guy and ship reacts to my input. You can have the best art design in the universe but so what If controls are putting you off?

That's because emphasis since the beginning is on the number of poly counts for the models.
http://wccftech.com/ryse-polygon-count-comparision-aaa-titles-crysis-star-citizen/

 

[ianw]

Star Citizen: It doesn't work but it's got lots of polys!

 

[nosscar]

usually take what Derek Smart says on his blogs with a pinch of salt, i prefer to take more notice when i see facts.
But this one point he brought up does exactly that for me when he compares the Cod:IW to the morrow tour and the ptu 2.4.
If the Cod:IW trailer shown here, is reflective, or is actual gameplay, then it is far superior in my opinion to anything CIG has produced so far, to me it is very, very, obvious which has the smoother physics, movement, and superior quality all round. Will the flight model used be as good though, and will we be able to control our ship in a space sim like way, and not just have small space battle scenes.

I hope SC can be something as good, but i am having very sincere doubts that it ever will be.
And Cod:IW will be released before SC now, if they keep to schedule.


This is COD:IW as of E3 in June 2016.
https://youtu.be/6IY4G6iyki4

 

[Backer42]

And Cod:IW will be released before SC now, if they keep to schedule.

Even if it gets delayed it will still release before anything from CIG.

 

[Britney]

The big Star Citizen debate is in a way a microcosm of the social dynamics of capitalism, a short story about capitalism.

1) The small company that promises to fight against the shallow products and economic imperatives that ignore what people/society/gamers really want (profit driven economy, not directed towards the actual needs).

2) Religious Consumerism that promises a better life through better products. You just have to make the right decision and you will be happy. Christ Roberts tries to resemble quasi-religious characters like Steve Jobs heating up the willing masses with highly staged events.

3) The moment of betrayal when the small company becomes a huge company and leaves the trail of need oriented production, but starts to follow the imperative of maximum profit generation. How many rockbands left a disappointed fanbase behind after they were marketed successfully? (Hint: Many)

4) A revolution or at least resistance movement represented by a recognizable public figure, in this case Derek Smart, starting to revolt against exploitation of workers (in this case backers as pledgers and bugtesters) and misleading advertisement.

5) The shallowing of capitalist critique because this whole thing is a joke from all sides. Taking Star Citizen marketing for real is, in my opinion, naive. It is a videogame, so what else do you expect? Starting a movement and investing significant amounts of time to critique this absurd marketing hype show to protect whom against what? People who have money throw it away all the time for stuff they don't need. So who cares. There are more important cases of exploitation and misleading marketing of products and services.

 

[Skizomeuh]

Haha I love oversights like this, it leads to some really odd things during development. I'm sure they will patch that out pretty quickly. I think "heavily faked" is maybe a bit harsh. Sure for now they are doing a simple boolean check to see if the player is wearing a spacesuit when they click the button but I suspect this is only temporary. They won't be able to use this trick when a ship transfers from space to a planet with an atmosphere or when a ship is in space and the hull is breached allowing the air to escape. CIG will have to come up with some other way of performing this check in real time.

That's the problem: it's a thing that shouldn't have to be patched out as it's one of the pillars of a SPACE game. It's not a bug, it just means the concept of SPACE isn't even implemented in the game's foundations.

I don't get how this wasn't implemented right at the beginning (though they prove us their talent with the "water level" issue) or at least along with their "magical" Physics Grids as it's basically a feature that controls behaviours of the player given a position in space.

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

The big Star Citizen debate is in a way a microcosm of the social dynamics of capitalism, a short story about capitalism.

1) The small company that promises to fight against the shallow products and economic imperatives that ignore what people/society/gamers really want (profit driven economy, not directed towards the actual needs).

2) Religious Consumerism that promises a better life through better products. You just have to make the right decision and you will be happy. Christ Roberts tries to resemble quasi-religious characters like Steve Jobs heating up the willing masses with highly staged events.

3) The moment of betrayal when the small company becomes a huge company and leaves the trail of need oriented production, but starts to follow the imperative of maximum profit generation. How many rockbands left a disappointed fanbase behind after they were marketed successfully? (Hint: Many)

4) A revolution or at least resistance movement represented by a recognizable public figure, in this case Derek Smart, starting to revolt against exploitation of workers (in this case backers as pledgers and bugtesters) and misleading advertisement.

5) The shallowing of capitalist critique because this whole thing is a joke from all sides. Taking Star Citizen marketing for real is, in my opinion, naive. It is a videogame, so what else do you expect? Starting a movement and investing significant amounts of time to critique this absurd marketing hype show to protect whom against what? People who have money throw it away all the time for stuff they don't need. So who cares. There are more important cases of exploitation and misleading marketing of products and services.

So, from what I gather from this is that basically everybody should find something more important to get worked up about, Chris Roberts and Star Citizen is a minor issue and you should just ignore it?

 

[Backer42]

It's not a bug, it just means the concept of SPACE isn't even implemented in the game's foundations.

The main issue is not that space is not implemented (yet). The issue is that they try to hide that, while the chairman palavers "fidelty with oxygen levels simulated in the bloodstream" and similar .

 

[Britney]

Yes and no. Why criticize Star Citizen? To prevent white 30+ guys to spend money on things they don't need or that are harmful to them and their environments? Why care more about this story than about huge cars, sports, guns etc.? To prevent ruthless capitalists to enrich themselves in a world characterized by extreme income inequality? This happens all the time.

In my opinion a real critique would just see Star CItizen as an example of what gaming and the gaming industry has become, and what people have become as willing consumers that soak up marketing promises as if they were real. Or even the point that people are willing to spend time in a shallow capitalist world where everything is about making money, from shooting ships, trading things and selling knowledge. How miserable has gaming culture become when most games are about making profit and fighting for domination? That would be a critique with substance.

 

[dayrth]

...Why criticize Star Citizen? To prevent white 30+ guys to spend money on things they don't need or that are harmful to them and their environments? ....

Why not. Surely it is a good thing to warn people that something may not be what it seems. Besides, I'm sure CIG are happy to take money from anyone, not just white 30+ guys. If kids are being duped in to parting with their money should they not be warned too?

Of course no one is obliged to listen to the warnings, and I'm sure people will make up their own minds.

 

[Stigbob]

Yes and no. Why criticize Star Citizen? To prevent white 30+ guys to spend money on things they don't need or that are harmful to them and their environments? Why care more about this story than about huge cars, sports, guns etc.? To prevent ruthless capitalists to enrich themselves in a world characterized by extreme income inequality? This happens all the time.

In my opinion a real critique would just see Star CItizen as an example of what gaming and the gaming industry has become, and what people have become as willing consumers that soak up marketing promises as if they were real. Or even the point that people are willing to spend time in a shallow capitalist world where everything is about making money, from shooting ships, trading things and selling knowledge. How miserable has gaming culture become when most games are about making profit and fighting for domination? That would be a critique with substance.

As a gamer I give a stuff about games, and discuss them warts and all. I want games to be good, I don't want games to be inaccurately advertised and I don't want gamers to be ripped off. As a space-game fan I don't want the genre killed (again) by a massive record-breaking expensive flop. I do this on gaming forums, like this one.

I think car's are bad for the environment, gun's kill people and members of the public don't need them, capitalism is short shortsightedness of the most damaging kind and most sports are an outlet for xenophobic tribalism. But I discuss them in other non-gaming forums, or dedicated threads in gaming forums as it's off-topic here.

This is the star citizen thread of a games forum, it's exactly the right place for criticism of star citizen.

Star Citizen is a very extreme example of run away crowd funding, scope creep, development hell, toxic community and a horrific lack of planning. This isn't a result of the industry being evil or capitalist pig-dogs conspiring it's just a very badly managed development process.

 

[Mu77ley]

That's the problem: it's a thing that shouldn't have to be patched out as it's one of the pillars of a SPACE game. It's not a bug, it just means the concept of SPACE isn't even implemented in the game's foundations.

I don't get how this wasn't implemented right at the beginning (though they prove us their talent with the "water level" issue) or at least along with their "magical" Physics Grids as it's basically a feature that controls behaviours of the player given a position in space.

The thing is, this method of doing it would be perfectly fine in a single-player game, so it's clear that whoever wrote that particular bit of the code has absolutely no clue about developing for a multiplayer environment. Because in a multi-player game, for every player who will do what you expect, there will be a couple of dozen Major Tom's trying to break things for a laugh.

 

[dayrth]

...I think car's are bad for the environment, gun's kill people and members of the public don't need them, ....

This is true, but at least if you want a car or a gun and you buy a car or a gun, you get a car or a gun. If you buy Star Citizen all you seem to get is parted from your money.

 

[Britney]

As a gamer I give a stuff about games, and discuss them warts and all. I want games to be good, I don't want games to be inaccurately advertised and I don't want gamers to be ripped off. As a space-game fan I don't want the genre killed (again) by a massive record-breaking expensive flop. I do this on gaming forums, like this one.

I think car's are bad for the environment, gun's kill people and members of the public don't need them, capitalism is short shortsightedness of the most damaging kind and most sports are an outlet for xenophobic tribalism. But I discuss them in other non-gaming forums, or dedicated threads in gaming forums as it's off-topic here.

This is the star citizen thread of a games forum, it's exactly the right place for criticism of star citizen.

Star Citizen is a very extreme example of run away crowd funding, scope creep, development hell, toxic community and a horrific lack of planning. This isn't a result of the industry being evil or capitalist pig-dogs conspiring it's just a very badly managed development process.

I see.

I still think a generalized critique on what games offer, what moral they present, what people do in them etc. would be much more worthful. Also, was there a time when 'the industry' did not make far fetched promises and ripped people off with questionable methods (I am looking at you genesis of computer gaming, disgrace of gaming culture, you, arcade, stealing the fantasies, time and money of litte kids always hoping that the next level would offer something valuable). I mean Star Citizen is bad without question, it is so unbelievable entertaining (it is) because it is an extreme case. But it is no exception, just the exaggerated norm of how things run since the 1980s.

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

And the BDDSSE just keeps on delivering on it's "promises"....

*Edit* And this latest vid kinda adds further credence to Major Tom's last SC revelation video, what with this guy being in open "space" with a full space suit visor and being perfectly fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqpLdL8bEl0