The Star Citizen Thread v5

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It's funny reading the back-and-forth here, with the staunch incumbents beating back wave after wave of marauding invaders. I don't really care to get involved in that, but thought I might tackle one of the arguments that's often employed as a defence of CIG and SC, and elaborate on exactly why I don't believe my pledge is or has been well-managed. That argument is the one about only game devs being able to understand game development. This is a point that I vehemently disagree with.

I am a software engineer, and have been since graduating from university. As I understand it, a "game" is a piece of "software" and as such is "engineered" in much the same way as any other piece of software. Having said that, a game engine and its accompanying game logic and art / audio assets are generally toward the top end of complexity. Game engines are multithreaded (and anyone who's written any kind of software will understand the nature of that problem) mammoth amalgamations of code that are designed to take creative and logical input from game designers and programmers and deliver it to a computer's output devices in such a way as to be both pleasant to the eye and ear, and to match the intentions of the designers with a minimum of fuss. Add in asynchronous and unpredictable external inputs (networking being the big one) and you have a problem that is very hard to solve. For what they do, and the hours that they're expected to work, game engine programmers are both underpaid and undervalued.

I've worked on a wide range of software products, some successful and some not so much. Invariably the ones that were most successful were the ones where requirements were well-managed, where scope creep was contained and where time and budget were key drivers for delivery. When you design a piece of software, you typically have a high-level set of requirements. In SC's case, those requirements were fairly well laid out in the Kickstarter and were the basis of the initial round of funding. Clearly game development is relatively fluid, but the product as sold was intended to be a particular thing. In a fairly rigid software development, these high-level requirements would typically be broken down into more achievable -- and importantly, measurable -- lower-level requirements. These in turn would then be agreed upon by all stakeholders (typically in game development, the publisher(s)), estimated for time and budget and funding laid out. If you don't already have a team, this is when the HR machine rolls out.

Once you've got your key designers on-board and bought into your vision and the requirements for the game, you'll outline your high-level design. You'll probably do some storyboarding and get some UX people involved. But with the best will in the world, fun is subjective so you'll keep an open mind and be ready to be flexible with your vision. You'll identify the biggest risks to achieving your goals, and you'll put plans in place to mitigate them. You'll decide whether you're going to base your software on existing products or whether you're going to roll-your-own. From the Star Citizen point-of-view, all this means that CIG should have identified that networking would be one of the most critical components, and should have been one of the first things to have been nailed down (as unfun as that is for the backers). Knowing that 'fidelity' is a key requirement, and knowing that this is essentially a multiplayer game, early work should have been targeted at identifying the key state information that would need to persisted across connected clients, and identifying a budget for both that and extras. I, like many others, was wowed by CIG's demonstration of procedural damage states but concerned about the implications of persisting those states across potentially hundreds of clients in real-time. I'm not convinced that when CIG were designing that feature, networking was taken into account at all. It was more driven by a technical desire to deliver more than any other game has delivered, regardless of how feasible that was. If they'd look at their networking budget they might have scrapped the idea before going full out implementing it. Even if the networking budget was good, how about processing and graphical budgets? If all those are good, does the gameplay justify such a complex mechanic? [Given your design for the flight model, will you ever actually see bits of spaceship fly off and if you do will you notice that they were broken off realistically in the heat of battle? Therefore is it worth the expense?]

I digress. One of the important things about a game is that it's fun to play. It's a fundamental requirement. If you fail to meet this requirement, your product will fail. The great thing about the games industry is that it's full of tropes, so it's fairly straightforward to pick and choose tropes that are considered fun. It's not *innovative* but it's easy. We know that FPS gameplay with cover and stealth dynamics are generally fun. We know that flying a spaceship is generally fun. We know that noodling around large MMO environments can be fun. So a game that incorporates all those things should, strictly speaking, be fun. But there's a lot of nuance to taking something that *should* be fund and actually delivering on it. Flying a spaceship could mean anything from point-and-shoot to full management of systems. How an FPS (particularly a single-player) one is fun depends on your interaction with the environment, and the balance between challenge and obstacle to progress. Noodling around in a huge MMO environment requires more than just being able to dance (emote). That doesn't even touch on *innovation*. CR has always been about innovating and pushing what's possible. FPS in zero-g is *not* a common trope so there's little in the way of evidence to show what is and what isn't fun. Flying spaceships is somewhat common, but being able to get up and walk around them while in flight, and the activities therein are *not*. Elite innovated somewhat with its space travel so CIG have something of a yardstick of fun, but in terms of the FPS element of it, there's really nothing.

So how do you go about determining what does and what doesn't work? Well, rather than dreaming up fantastical notions like carting cargo around by hand one piece at a time or being a space waiter, you *prototype*. This is no different from any software development where requirements are fluid. You skip the onerous audio and artistic work, you say to hell with the fidelity and you throw something together that quickly demonstrates the idea and you focus group the heck out of it. The biggest asset that CIG have is its backers, so getting gameplay out to them as early as possible should have been the goal. But that's really where things started to go wrong for me. CIG (and CR in particular) are so driven by fidelity and by perception that I suspect they didn't feel they could throw prototypes out there like that. Everything released to the backers had to be polished. We can see that they've changed tack on that of late, with the illuminati (or whatever they're called) being effective surrogates for gameplay testers. But that's still too little, too late.

Because of this blinkered approach to development, the game has iterated slowly -- glacially even -- to where it is now. It's at a point where what's been implemented is sort of fun to play for a bit, but that is fundamentally missing most of its gameplay. Gameplay that's slowly being added, polished, changed, polished again, etc. when it's the gameplay that should have been nailed down at the front-end of the project and fripperies like ship variants and clothing should have been implemented toward the back end. Beyond a certain point, budget (and therefore scope) should have been fixed. After even a year in development, the requirements for this game should have been nailed down, but even now they're fluid. Everything I see about this project speaks to a hugely creative mind who wants their game to be the biggest and best out there, but who should *not* be in control of budget or delivery. Chris Roberts should ideally be lead designer of this game with a management team who have experience in delivering games on-time and on-budget. I'm happy that the whales continue to fund the game; it increases the chance that I'll eventually see a completed game for my piddly contribution. But I don't think anyone can look at this project in hindsight and say "job well done".

But I'm not a game developer, so what do I know?

Great post imo. My game developer friend noted early on to me that they need to nail down the networking, because if its not the game can really suffer. There's a recent post on Glass Door for CIG that says

I believe we should make an official announcement as to what players should expect will actually be part of the game when the persistent universe goes live. This roadmap should be clearly defined and explained monthly as to the status of the systems. Information is currently too scattered with many external sites assuming things and us not exactly clarifying them. With all of the 10 for the "x" episodes and Media shows we produce, there is some outdated information that should be updated publicly so there is no confusion about something we added or cut after that video was created.

There's a few others on there saying similarly. Many of those basic game mechanics are missing. Trading etc. Instead CR's vision of fidelity seems firmly planted at every turn.
 
you know if people kicked out chris roberts from helm of star citizen, I think CIG could produce a product on par with freelancer.
Would it be worth the 120 million worth of funding? Definately not. But it would be better than what chris roberts is delivering.
The length of star citizen would be dependent on how much money CIG has left
EMPLOYEE TOTAL COST (ESTIMATE INCLUDING EXPENSES)
YearEmployee CountEmployee Cost per year (est)Total Employee Cost (est)Money Earned by CrowdfundingProfit for Year (Money earned - Employee costs)Accumulated Total Profit
20127$130,000$910,000$7,244,548.00$6,334,548.00$6,334,548.00
201360$130,000$7,800,000$29,451,413.00$21,651,413.00$27,985,961.00
2014156$130,000$20,280,000$32,926,518.00$12,646,518.00$40,632,479.00
2015260$130,000$33,800,000$35,454,018.00$1,654,018.00$42,286,497.00
2016330$130,000$32,175,000 (so far)$22,633,444.50 (so far)-$9,541,555.50$32,744,941.50
source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/512ulc/whats_with_frontier_forums_sc_thread_oo/d79qdjb

someone at reddit had calculated (purely speculative calculation) that cig still had 32 million left but that calculation didnt have the prices of mocap shoots, tax,licenses, business space rent in it.
so i would throw an estimate that they still have 20 million left (highly optimistic estimation). Thats still enough money to produce a game that could go on par with freelancer.
But im highly doubtful that chris roberts could let go of this project, its his last straw since theres no way for him to return to hollywood anymore. Its real shame really because we are all wishing for that sequel for freelancer. Theres already mindboggling amount of generic sci-fi shooters out there what people want is good old space sim with lengthy good story.That is situated in flavorful universe.
 
.........Meanwhile in Wonderland......


woooo_zpsxnkidjn3.jpg
 
The Jeffrey McArthur issue was tweeted to all the A listers involved since which Gary Oldmans involvement seems to have decreased substantially or completely (this is a rumor).

I can't provide a better write up of it than Gorf's.
http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...8466&pagenumber=2106&perpage=40#post456669802

Gah - paywall still up with that annoying child.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

It's funny reading the back-and-forth here, with the staunch incumbents beating back wave after wave of marauding invaders. I don't really care to get involved in that, but thought I might tackle one of the arguments that's often employed as a defence of CIG and SC, and elaborate on exactly why I don't believe my pledge is or has been well-managed. That argument is the one about only game devs being able to understand game development. This is a point that I vehemently disagree with.

I am a software engineer, and have been since graduating from university. As I understand it, a "game" is a piece of "software" and as such is "engineered" in much the same way as any other piece of software. Having said that, a game engine and its accompanying game logic and art / audio assets are generally toward the top end of complexity. Game engines are multithreaded (and anyone who's written any kind of software will understand the nature of that problem) mammoth amalgamations of code that are designed to take creative and logical input from game designers and programmers and deliver it to a computer's output devices in such a way as to be both pleasant to the eye and ear, and to match the intentions of the designers with a minimum of fuss. Add in asynchronous and unpredictable external inputs (networking being the big one) and you have a problem that is very hard to solve. For what they do, and the hours that they're expected to work, game engine programmers are both underpaid and undervalued.

I've worked on a wide range of software products, some successful and some not so much. Invariably the ones that were most successful were the ones where requirements were well-managed, where scope creep was contained and where time and budget were key drivers for delivery. When you design a piece of software, you typically have a high-level set of requirements. In SC's case, those requirements were fairly well laid out in the Kickstarter and were the basis of the initial round of funding. Clearly game development is relatively fluid, but the product as sold was intended to be a particular thing. In a fairly rigid software development, these high-level requirements would typically be broken down into more achievable -- and importantly, measurable -- lower-level requirements. These in turn would then be agreed upon by all stakeholders (typically in game development, the publisher(s)), estimated for time and budget and funding laid out. If you don't already have a team, this is when the HR machine rolls out.

Once you've got your key designers on-board and bought into your vision and the requirements for the game, you'll outline your high-level design. You'll probably do some storyboarding and get some UX people involved. But with the best will in the world, fun is subjective so you'll keep an open mind and be ready to be flexible with your vision. You'll identify the biggest risks to achieving your goals, and you'll put plans in place to mitigate them. You'll decide whether you're going to base your software on existing products or whether you're going to roll-your-own. From the Star Citizen point-of-view, all this means that CIG should have identified that networking would be one of the most critical components, and should have been one of the first things to have been nailed down (as unfun as that is for the backers). Knowing that 'fidelity' is a key requirement, and knowing that this is essentially a multiplayer game, early work should have been targeted at identifying the key state information that would need to persisted across connected clients, and identifying a budget for both that and extras. I, like many others, was wowed by CIG's demonstration of procedural damage states but concerned about the implications of persisting those states across potentially hundreds of clients in real-time. I'm not convinced that when CIG were designing that feature, networking was taken into account at all. It was more driven by a technical desire to deliver more than any other game has delivered, regardless of how feasible that was. If they'd look at their networking budget they might have scrapped the idea before going full out implementing it. Even if the networking budget was good, how about processing and graphical budgets? If all those are good, does the gameplay justify such a complex mechanic? [Given your design for the flight model, will you ever actually see bits of spaceship fly off and if you do will you notice that they were broken off realistically in the heat of battle? Therefore is it worth the expense?]

I digress. One of the important things about a game is that it's fun to play. It's a fundamental requirement. If you fail to meet this requirement, your product will fail. The great thing about the games industry is that it's full of tropes, so it's fairly straightforward to pick and choose tropes that are considered fun. It's not *innovative* but it's easy. We know that FPS gameplay with cover and stealth dynamics are generally fun. We know that flying a spaceship is generally fun. We know that noodling around large MMO environments can be fun. So a game that incorporates all those things should, strictly speaking, be fun. But there's a lot of nuance to taking something that *should* be fund and actually delivering on it. Flying a spaceship could mean anything from point-and-shoot to full management of systems. How an FPS (particularly a single-player) one is fun depends on your interaction with the environment, and the balance between challenge and obstacle to progress. Noodling around in a huge MMO environment requires more than just being able to dance (emote). That doesn't even touch on *innovation*. CR has always been about innovating and pushing what's possible. FPS in zero-g is *not* a common trope so there's little in the way of evidence to show what is and what isn't fun. Flying spaceships is somewhat common, but being able to get up and walk around them while in flight, and the activities therein are *not*. Elite innovated somewhat with its space travel so CIG have something of a yardstick of fun, but in terms of the FPS element of it, there's really nothing.

So how do you go about determining what does and what doesn't work? Well, rather than dreaming up fantastical notions like carting cargo around by hand one piece at a time or being a space waiter, you *prototype*. This is no different from any software development where requirements are fluid. You skip the onerous audio and artistic work, you say to hell with the fidelity and you throw something together that quickly demonstrates the idea and you focus group the heck out of it. The biggest asset that CIG have is its backers, so getting gameplay out to them as early as possible should have been the goal. But that's really where things started to go wrong for me. CIG (and CR in particular) are so driven by fidelity and by perception that I suspect they didn't feel they could throw prototypes out there like that. Everything released to the backers had to be polished. We can see that they've changed tack on that of late, with the illuminati (or whatever they're called) being effective surrogates for gameplay testers. But that's still too little, too late.

Because of this blinkered approach to development, the game has iterated slowly -- glacially even -- to where it is now. It's at a point where what's been implemented is sort of fun to play for a bit, but that is fundamentally missing most of its gameplay. Gameplay that's slowly being added, polished, changed, polished again, etc. when it's the gameplay that should have been nailed down at the front-end of the project and fripperies like ship variants and clothing should have been implemented toward the back end. Beyond a certain point, budget (and therefore scope) should have been fixed. After even a year in development, the requirements for this game should have been nailed down, but even now they're fluid. Everything I see about this project speaks to a hugely creative mind who wants their game to be the biggest and best out there, but who should *not* be in control of budget or delivery. Chris Roberts should ideally be lead designer of this game with a management team who have experience in delivering games on-time and on-budget. I'm happy that the whales continue to fund the game; it increases the chance that I'll eventually see a completed game for my piddly contribution. But I don't think anyone can look at this project in hindsight and say "job well done".

But I'm not a game developer, so what do I know?

Interesting post - ta.
 
Gah - paywall still up with that annoying child.

Here's a cut and paste of it, the spoiler tag was added by me due to the language the citizens use.

From here is Gorfs post in full:

When the CIG peon assigned to read this thread for actionable intelligence comes across this little account, I hope you will print this, or otherwise pass the sad little story and helpful set of suggestions up to Ben, Sandi, Lando, or even Chris.

----

TO: Cloud Imperium Games
FROM: Something Awful
SUBJECT: The tale of Jeffrey McArthur
PRIORITY: High


An agreeable older gamer named Jeffrey McArthur tried Star Citizen's Free Flight weekend a couple of weeks ago, having no knowledge whatsoever of of this particular game. He is an avid gamer - online games, tabletop games, D&D games - he has spent decades playing them and loving them. In fact, as a younger man, he actually programmed two titles for the Atari 800; a serviceable Defender clone called Kamikaze. and sillier overhead maze runner called Icky Squishy.

These days, Jeffrey makes gaming videos that average less than 100 viewers each, and keeps doing it sheerly for the joy of it.

So he downloads Star Citizen and starts playing. He is bewildered by the key bindings, the absence of clear objectives, players crawling on their bellies around ARCcorp, ships spawning upside down in his hangar, the manual, the emptiness, and more. These are all reasonable reactions, particularly since the PC Gamer article that prompted him to try the Free Flight game never mentioned it was an Alpha.

After an understandably frustrating 45 minutes, one he took in bemused stride, he posted a video of his gaming experience, wondering humorously, "Am I too stupid to play Star Citizen?"

GTloRUR.jpg


After posting the video, it immediately became one of his most viewed, and most down voted, videos. Of course, it would all be entirely predictable, this kind of thing happens so regularly these days. Yet this story has a surprisingly bittersweet punchline- one that is very worth your attention.

rmdGn3f.jpg

Surely, with your enormous sums and perpetual broadcasts, YOU THE COMMUNITY AND MARKETING LEADERSHIP can make greater efforts to discourage knee-jerk attacks on anyone who dares express confusion about the State of the Game. They don't have to be Stage 4 Cancer Sufferers to merit better treatment.

Nothing that this random old-school gamer said in his video was libelous, mean-spirited or unfair. In fact, he posited that maybe he was too dumb to play the game, rather than going after the failings (and they are legion) of Star Citizen as it exists today. That's a kid gloves treatment that you don't even deserve at this point, and STILL, some members of your community love little more than shooting messengers rather than listen to their bad news. (And don't pretend 'oh that's just Youtube commenters!', either. This same crap happens on Reddit and elsewhere, all the time.)

 DhZj.jpg


Your Game Tutorial is broken, the Alpha is bug-ridden, dull and confusing for those not willing to commit considerable efforts to the learning curve. Don't take my word for it. Take Jeffrey McArthur's. Or look at your post break-up sales collapse.

iznO7cE.jpg


If you think your biggest enemies are trolls or goons, or your biggest problems are making sure you delete any incriminating evidence you left behind on some old video archive your backers paid for, you really aren't paying close enough attention.

Your biggest enemies-- particularly right now-- are the toxic zealots who have already backed your game and, in absence of a game to play, have decided to role play as Riot Cops beating down anybody who looks askew at their beloved (fictive) super-game. This pattern repeats daily in more places than any of us can count. On Twitter, Youtube comments, Facebook pages, Gaming Media article comments, Reddit, and elsewhere.

Where did they learn and perfect this odious art, you wonder? Why, the RSI forums, of course!

---

THE PROBLEM, IN SUMMARY:

You have stated your intention to "take the pressure off backers to keep funding the game" by focusing your efforts on winning newer backers to the cause. This is a sensible strategy, at least on its surface, yet the proposition is going to be bloody difficult if:

1) The game is buggy, confusing, and unfun to play.
2) The tutorial is broken.
3) The community is hostile to new players who state that either or both of the above is true.


THE SOLUTION, IN SUMMARY:

You, the Community and Marketing Team, do not have the power to fix what is wrong with the game, or accelerate the development of its improvement. You do, however, have useful tools to combat this problem. There are good-hearted, patient members in your community, trying their level best to help win new converts to the fold. And not all of them are motivated by your cynical referral program carrot.

You are fortunate in that respect. They still love you, for reasons beyond our understanding.

Because of that, you need to:

1) EMPOWER AND ELEVATE THE GOOD GUYS --- they are the best tools in your arsenal in what will be a difficult new season of your life. Elevate their stature, and start taking a harder line approach with that part of your backer base that truly is the enemy within. If the game was not the mess that it is, then this particular issue would not be of such urgent priority. You, the Community and Marketing leadership, may have no power over the pace and quality of development, but you have a lot of tools at your disposal for changing the discourse in your own community.

2) PRIORITIZE NEW PLAYER EDUCATION VIDEOS -- Instead of doing yet another weekly show (the newest of which is apparently about Space Plants), you should focus on weekly programming aimed at educating non-players about the game and educating current players about the importance of welcoming any and all questions that non-players may have. Right now, some members of your own community are doing this for you, because they recognize the need is great, but it's YOUR GAME, and you need to do this for yourself.

3) FIX THE DAMN TUTORIAL - Tell Chris that fixing the Tutorial is a five-alarm fire and needs developer attention immediately. Pull five guys off their 4th revamp of a spinning space chair remodel and have them make a tutorial that doesn't suck.

4) DON'T JUST DISCOURAGE TOXIC BACKERS, PUNISH THEM -- Lando and Ben showed some encouraging signs in a recent Reverse the Verse, asking the community not to insult or argue with people. But an offhand comment in a show seen by maybe 1000 viewers is not enough. You need to make examples of the toxic losers who stand amongst the Welcome Committess with their guns out, ready to fire endless lobs of "You're an idiot", "You don't understand Game development", "This is an ALPHA, !" at your next potential wave of customers. You have seen it play out countless times, as surely as we have. You need to start doing something about it.

5) REFRESH YOUR PUBLIC PERSONA BY ELEVATING NEW FACES - Ben and Sandi, I'm sorry to break the news to you, but each of you have lost credibility with the fanbase over the last year, for very different reasons. The rapturous reception of Sean Tracy by "Reverse the Verse" viewers is telling you something-- that a straight-talking and informed developer actually talking about the true state of the game is like manna from heaven to a starving people wandering the desert looking for the Promised Land. You could regain some goodwill with an increasingly restive population by replacing yourselves with Sean Tracy and Cherie Heiberg. Ben, you come across as Uninformed and Sandi, you come across as Disinterested. Sean and Cherie are very informed, very interested and, in contrast to you both, they seem trustworthy, too. If you want to change the tone (and you bloody well should), it starts with replacing them mouthpieces.

-----

I recognize that this is constructive criticism, and will likely be seen as presumptuous and disingenuous, considering that it came from Something Awful. You seem far more likely to take action to our posts when you find us delighting in some smoking gun you've left buried somewhere that you need to track down and throw into the ocean.

Yet it is offered sincerely, and the advice is sound. Do not let 'director of spaceships' titles earned through sycophancy deafen you, Ben. Do not let your excessive self-regard as a Marketing Genius blind you, Sandi. Let neither your cash reserves nor past successes delude you about the present realities. There's a chill in the air now, guys, and it's not just the weather changing, it is the season.

-----

UPDATE: July 17th, 2016
smile.gif


Nearly half a year later, McArthur announces that he's finished chemo and is Cancer Free.
 
Last edited:
Here's a cut and paste of it, the spoiler tag was added by me due to the language the citizens use.

From here is Gorfs post in full:

When the CIG peon assigned to read this thread for actionable intelligence comes across this little account, I hope you will print this, or otherwise pass the sad little story and helpful set of suggestions up to Ben, Sandi, Lando, or even Chris.

----

TO: Cloud Imperium Games
FROM: Something Awful
SUBJECT: The tale of Jeffrey McArthur
PRIORITY: High


An agreeable older gamer named Jeffrey McArthur tried Star Citizen's Free Flight weekend a couple of weeks ago, having no knowledge whatsoever of of this particular game. He is an avid gamer - online games, tabletop games, D&D games - he has spent decades playing them and loving them. In fact, as a younger man, he actually programmed two titles for the Atari 800; a serviceable Defender clone called Kamikaze. and sillier overhead maze runner called Icky Squishy.

These days, Jeffrey makes gaming videos that average less than 100 viewers each, and keeps doing it sheerly for the joy of it.

So he downloads Star Citizen and starts playing. He is bewildered by the key bindings, the absence of clear objectives, players crawling on their bellies around ARCcorp, ships spawning upside down in his hangar, the manual, the emptiness, and more. These are all reasonable reactions, particularly since the PC Gamer article that prompted him to try the Free Flight game never mentioned it was an Alpha.

After an understandably frustrating 45 minutes, one he took in bemused stride, he posted a video of his gaming experience, wondering humorously, "Am I too stupid to play Star Citizen?"

http://i.imgur.com/GTloRUR.jpg

After posting the video, it immediately became one of his most viewed, and most down voted, videos. Of course, it would all be entirely predictable, this kind of thing happens so regularly these days. Yet this story has a surprisingly bittersweet punchline- one that is very worth your attention.


Surely, with your enormous sums and perpetual broadcasts, YOU THE COMMUNITY AND MARKETING LEADERSHIP can make greater efforts to discourage knee-jerk attacks on anyone who dares express confusion about the State of the Game. They don't have to be Stage 4 Cancer Sufferers to merit better treatment.

Nothing that this random old-school gamer said in his video was libelous, mean-spirited or unfair. In fact, he posited that maybe he was too dumb to play the game, rather than going after the failings (and they are legion) of Star Citizen as it exists today. That's a kid gloves treatment that you don't even deserve at this point, and STILL, some members of your community love little more than shooting messengers rather than listen to their bad news. (And don't pretend 'oh that's just Youtube commenters!', either. This same crap happens on Reddit and elsewhere, all the time.)

http://i.imgur.com/ DhZj.jpg

Your Game Tutorial is broken, the Alpha is bug-ridden, dull and confusing for those not willing to commit considerable efforts to the learning curve. Don't take my word for it. Take Jeffrey McArthur's. Or look at your post break-up sales collapse.

http://i.imgur.com/iznO7cE.jpg

If you think your biggest enemies are trolls or goons, or your biggest problems are making sure you delete any incriminating evidence you left behind on some old video archive your backers paid for, you really aren't paying close enough attention.

Your biggest enemies-- particularly right now-- are the toxic zealots who have already backed your game and, in absence of a game to play, have decided to role play as Riot Cops beating down anybody who looks askew at their beloved (fictive) super-game. This pattern repeats daily in more places than any of us can count. On Twitter, Youtube comments, Facebook pages, Gaming Media article comments, Reddit, and elsewhere.

Where did they learn and perfect this odious art, you wonder? Why, the RSI forums, of course!

---

THE PROBLEM, IN SUMMARY:

You have stated your intention to "take the pressure off backers to keep funding the game" by focusing your efforts on winning newer backers to the cause. This is a sensible strategy, at least on its surface, yet the proposition is going to be bloody difficult if:

1) The game is buggy, confusing, and unfun to play.
2) The tutorial is broken.
3) The community is hostile to new players who state that either or both of the above is true.


THE SOLUTION, IN SUMMARY:

You, the Community and Marketing Team, do not have the power to fix what is wrong with the game, or accelerate the development of its improvement. You do, however, have useful tools to combat this problem. There are good-hearted, patient members in your community, trying their level best to help win new converts to the fold. And not all of them are motivated by your cynical referral program carrot.

You are fortunate in that respect. They still love you, for reasons beyond our understanding.

Because of that, you need to:

1) EMPOWER AND ELEVATE THE GOOD GUYS --- they are the best tools in your arsenal in what will be a difficult new season of your life. Elevate their stature, and start taking a harder line approach with that part of your backer base that truly is the enemy within. If the game was not the mess that it is, then this particular issue would not be of such urgent priority. You, the Community and Marketing leadership, may have no power over the pace and quality of development, but you have a lot of tools at your disposal for changing the discourse in your own community.

2) PRIORITIZE NEW PLAYER EDUCATION VIDEOS -- Instead of doing yet another weekly show (the newest of which is apparently about Space Plants), you should focus on weekly programming aimed at educating non-players about the game and educating current players about the importance of welcoming any and all questions that non-players may have. Right now, some members of your own community are doing this for you, because they recognize the need is great, but it's YOUR GAME, and you need to do this for yourself.

3) FIX THE DAMN TUTORIAL - Tell Chris that fixing the Tutorial is a five-alarm fire and needs developer attention immediately. Pull five guys off their 4th revamp of a spinning space chair remodel and have them make a tutorial that doesn't suck.

4) DON'T JUST DISCOURAGE TOXIC BACKERS, PUNISH THEM -- Lando and Ben showed some encouraging signs in a recent Reverse the Verse, asking the community not to insult or argue with people. But an offhand comment in a show seen by maybe 1000 viewers is not enough. You need to make examples of the toxic losers who stand amongst the Welcome Committess with their guns out, ready to fire endless lobs of "You're an idiot", "You don't understand Game development", "This is an ALPHA, !" at your next potential wave of customers. You have seen it play out countless times, as surely as we have. You need to start doing something about it.

5) REFRESH YOUR PUBLIC PERSONA BY ELEVATING NEW FACES - Ben and Sandi, I'm sorry to break the news to you, but each of you have lost credibility with the fanbase over the last year, for very different reasons. The rapturous reception of Sean Tracy by "Reverse the Verse" viewers is telling you something-- that a straight-talking and informed developer actually talking about the true state of the game is like manna from heaven to a starving people wandering the desert looking for the Promised Land. You could regain some goodwill with an increasingly restive population by replacing yourselves with Sean Tracy and Cherie Heiberg. Ben, you come across as Uninformed and Sandi, you come across as Disinterested. Sean and Cherie are very informed, very interested and, in contrast to you both, they seem trustworthy, too. If you want to change the tone (and you bloody well should), it starts with replacing them mouthpieces.

-----

I recognize that this is constructive criticism, and will likely be seen as presumptuous and disingenuous, considering that it came from Something Awful. You seem far more likely to take action to our posts when you find us delighting in some smoking gun you've left buried somewhere that you need to track down and throw into the ocean.

Yet it is offered sincerely, and the advice is sound. Do not let 'director of spaceships' titles earned through sycophancy deafen you, Ben. Do not let your excessive self-regard as a Marketing Genius blind you, Sandi. Let neither your cash reserves nor past successes delude you about the present realities. There's a chill in the air now, guys, and it's not just the weather changing, it is the season.

-----

UPDATE: July 17th, 2016 https://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Nearly half a year later, McArthur announces that he's finished chemo and is Cancer Free.

Thanks - I recall seeing Gorf's name from the times when the thread was opened - he put some good info posts together.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hjirp9fzDnA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtlNbmlvGM8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G97uuygdJ38

and finally trailers without chris roberts. At helms
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlgBT-wGAVY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vGIkq-bTA4 (im uncertain when this trailer aired but since its close to final product they delivered i think its after chris roberts had left the company)

I now ask which one of these 2 games looks like more fun? which one tells more about the actual gameplay?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUcMsPt68Ws

To me it looks like chris roberts was making different game. It was not the freelancer everyone knew.
You can also see same elements in star citizen. It looks pretty darn similar to that old freelancer. You know the one that nobody outside the dev team and press got to play.
I kinda wish that the team that made freelancer got together again and that they would make true sequel to freelancer.
You know the freelancer that chris roberts didnt get to direct.The freelancer where chris roberts was only credited as a creator of original concept (the ideas guy).

So many similarities with SC...
It's obvious that he's trying to do with SC what he wasn't able to with Freelancer, at all costs (evidently).
Backers should start questioning themselves, who's a REAL priority here? Them, or CR's dream?
 
So august has been quite heavy for CIG over 30 employee positions opened up during that month. Thats over 10% of workforce CIG employs.
21 engineer positions, 1 marketing position, 2 support positions,1 ui position,2 design positions, 2 audio positions, 2 art positions
I wonder what happened? It seems rather drastic that company suddenly loses over 10% of its workforce and mostly in engineering department.Especially since its mostly senior positions
Source: https://cloudimperiumgames.com/jobs
 
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Here's a cut and paste of it, the spoiler tag was added by me due to the language the citizens use.

From here is Gorfs post in full:

When the CIG peon assigned to read this thread for actionable intelligence comes across this little account, I hope you will print this, or otherwise pass the sad little story and helpful set of suggestions up to Ben, Sandi, Lando, or even Chris.

----

TO: Cloud Imperium Games
FROM: Something Awful
SUBJECT: The tale of Jeffrey McArthur
PRIORITY: High


An agreeable older gamer named Jeffrey McArthur tried Star Citizen's Free Flight weekend a couple of weeks ago, having no knowledge whatsoever of of this particular game. He is an avid gamer - online games, tabletop games, D&D games - he has spent decades playing them and loving them. In fact, as a younger man, he actually programmed two titles for the Atari 800; a serviceable Defender clone called Kamikaze. and sillier overhead maze runner called Icky Squishy.

These days, Jeffrey makes gaming videos that average less than 100 viewers each, and keeps doing it sheerly for the joy of it.

So he downloads Star Citizen and starts playing. He is bewildered by the key bindings, the absence of clear objectives, players crawling on their bellies around ARCcorp, ships spawning upside down in his hangar, the manual, the emptiness, and more. These are all reasonable reactions, particularly since the PC Gamer article that prompted him to try the Free Flight game never mentioned it was an Alpha.

After an understandably frustrating 45 minutes, one he took in bemused stride, he posted a video of his gaming experience, wondering humorously, "Am I too stupid to play Star Citizen?"

http://i.imgur.com/GTloRUR.jpg

After posting the video, it immediately became one of his most viewed, and most down voted, videos. Of course, it would all be entirely predictable, this kind of thing happens so regularly these days. Yet this story has a surprisingly bittersweet punchline- one that is very worth your attention.


Surely, with your enormous sums and perpetual broadcasts, YOU THE COMMUNITY AND MARKETING LEADERSHIP can make greater efforts to discourage knee-jerk attacks on anyone who dares express confusion about the State of the Game. They don't have to be Stage 4 Cancer Sufferers to merit better treatment.

Nothing that this random old-school gamer said in his video was libelous, mean-spirited or unfair. In fact, he posited that maybe he was too dumb to play the game, rather than going after the failings (and they are legion) of Star Citizen as it exists today. That's a kid gloves treatment that you don't even deserve at this point, and STILL, some members of your community love little more than shooting messengers rather than listen to their bad news. (And don't pretend 'oh that's just Youtube commenters!', either. This same crap happens on Reddit and elsewhere, all the time.)

http://i.imgur.com/ DhZj.jpg

Your Game Tutorial is broken, the Alpha is bug-ridden, dull and confusing for those not willing to commit considerable efforts to the learning curve. Don't take my word for it. Take Jeffrey McArthur's. Or look at your post break-up sales collapse.

http://i.imgur.com/iznO7cE.jpg

If you think your biggest enemies are trolls or goons, or your biggest problems are making sure you delete any incriminating evidence you left behind on some old video archive your backers paid for, you really aren't paying close enough attention.

Your biggest enemies-- particularly right now-- are the toxic zealots who have already backed your game and, in absence of a game to play, have decided to role play as Riot Cops beating down anybody who looks askew at their beloved (fictive) super-game. This pattern repeats daily in more places than any of us can count. On Twitter, Youtube comments, Facebook pages, Gaming Media article comments, Reddit, and elsewhere.

Where did they learn and perfect this odious art, you wonder? Why, the RSI forums, of course!

---

THE PROBLEM, IN SUMMARY:

You have stated your intention to "take the pressure off backers to keep funding the game" by focusing your efforts on winning newer backers to the cause. This is a sensible strategy, at least on its surface, yet the proposition is going to be bloody difficult if:

1) The game is buggy, confusing, and unfun to play.
2) The tutorial is broken.
3) The community is hostile to new players who state that either or both of the above is true.


THE SOLUTION, IN SUMMARY:

You, the Community and Marketing Team, do not have the power to fix what is wrong with the game, or accelerate the development of its improvement. You do, however, have useful tools to combat this problem. There are good-hearted, patient members in your community, trying their level best to help win new converts to the fold. And not all of them are motivated by your cynical referral program carrot.

You are fortunate in that respect. They still love you, for reasons beyond our understanding.

Because of that, you need to:

1) EMPOWER AND ELEVATE THE GOOD GUYS --- they are the best tools in your arsenal in what will be a difficult new season of your life. Elevate their stature, and start taking a harder line approach with that part of your backer base that truly is the enemy within. If the game was not the mess that it is, then this particular issue would not be of such urgent priority. You, the Community and Marketing leadership, may have no power over the pace and quality of development, but you have a lot of tools at your disposal for changing the discourse in your own community.

2) PRIORITIZE NEW PLAYER EDUCATION VIDEOS -- Instead of doing yet another weekly show (the newest of which is apparently about Space Plants), you should focus on weekly programming aimed at educating non-players about the game and educating current players about the importance of welcoming any and all questions that non-players may have. Right now, some members of your own community are doing this for you, because they recognize the need is great, but it's YOUR GAME, and you need to do this for yourself.

3) FIX THE DAMN TUTORIAL - Tell Chris that fixing the Tutorial is a five-alarm fire and needs developer attention immediately. Pull five guys off their 4th revamp of a spinning space chair remodel and have them make a tutorial that doesn't suck.

4) DON'T JUST DISCOURAGE TOXIC BACKERS, PUNISH THEM -- Lando and Ben showed some encouraging signs in a recent Reverse the Verse, asking the community not to insult or argue with people. But an offhand comment in a show seen by maybe 1000 viewers is not enough. You need to make examples of the toxic losers who stand amongst the Welcome Committess with their guns out, ready to fire endless lobs of "You're an idiot", "You don't understand Game development", "This is an ALPHA, !" at your next potential wave of customers. You have seen it play out countless times, as surely as we have. You need to start doing something about it.

5) REFRESH YOUR PUBLIC PERSONA BY ELEVATING NEW FACES - Ben and Sandi, I'm sorry to break the news to you, but each of you have lost credibility with the fanbase over the last year, for very different reasons. The rapturous reception of Sean Tracy by "Reverse the Verse" viewers is telling you something-- that a straight-talking and informed developer actually talking about the true state of the game is like manna from heaven to a starving people wandering the desert looking for the Promised Land. You could regain some goodwill with an increasingly restive population by replacing yourselves with Sean Tracy and Cherie Heiberg. Ben, you come across as Uninformed and Sandi, you come across as Disinterested. Sean and Cherie are very informed, very interested and, in contrast to you both, they seem trustworthy, too. If you want to change the tone (and you bloody well should), it starts with replacing them mouthpieces.

-----

I recognize that this is constructive criticism, and will likely be seen as presumptuous and disingenuous, considering that it came from Something Awful. You seem far more likely to take action to our posts when you find us delighting in some smoking gun you've left buried somewhere that you need to track down and throw into the ocean.

Yet it is offered sincerely, and the advice is sound. Do not let 'director of spaceships' titles earned through sycophancy deafen you, Ben. Do not let your excessive self-regard as a Marketing Genius blind you, Sandi. Let neither your cash reserves nor past successes delude you about the present realities. There's a chill in the air now, guys, and it's not just the weather changing, it is the season.

-----

UPDATE: July 17th, 2016 https://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Nearly half a year later, McArthur announces that he's finished chemo and is Cancer Free.
Wow. That really is something else. So glad to hear it looks as though he's pulling through. I knew some of the SC cultists were low but must admit, I didn't know quite how much. It made me sad, repulsed and angry to see some of those comments. Glad others came to his defence.
 
So august has been quite heavy for CIG over 30 employee positions opened up during that month. Thats over 10% of workforce CIG employs.
21 engineer positions, 1 marketing position, 2 support positions,1 ui position,2 design positions, 2 audio positions, 2 art positions
I wonder what happened? It seems rather drastic that company suddenly loses over 10% of its workforce and mostly in engineering department.Especially since its mostly senior positions
Source: https://cloudimperiumgames.com/jobs
It doesn't necessarily imply that people have left. They might just have realised that they need more resource to actually deliver a product.
 
So many similarities with SC...
It's obvious that he's trying to do with SC what he wasn't able to with Freelancer, at all costs (evidently).
Backers should start questioning themselves, who's a REAL priority here? Them, or CR's dream?

Oh sure + don´t forget what Croberts said about the controls/FM in the Freelancer which for me was one of the turning point...let me quote the man:""The final mouse controls, while good, weren’t the ones that I saw in my head (I imagined the game being like a FPS, but in space and having the same level of shooting precision)."-Well in short that´s explain todays FM in the SC....Croberts dreams finally come´s true....
 
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https://youtu.be/nvule1cD_zk?t=561
for full transcript for that question go to here https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...d-v5/page537?p=4318988&viewfull=1#post4318988
and yes it is most messed up quote chris has given.At least in my opinion.

Did he make that quote while unconscious?

e: double post, oops!

Damn, those last ten pages were a waste of electricity.



Nah, early versions of AC had some complexity in the flight model, though I think the generally low ship masses and massively overpowered thrusters weren't helping with the 'floaty' physics.
My personal opinion is that developers have noticed that the whole thruster modelling business doesn't mesh with how the flight model was supposed to be, and something was simplified. I remember reading the old post, where some guy (Pritchett or whatever his name was?) wanted to differentiate between maneuvering thrusters (pitch, yaw, roll) and translational thrusters (strafing), but I'm not sure what happened to it. All I know is that neither that unsymmetrical Vandal fighter nor Mustang should be able to fly in a straight line, and until anyone explains it to me in a satisfactory manner, I can't call the flight model realistic in any way.

I haven't taken a look at the ships but, with the right amount of setup I'm sure you could achieve the correct delta-v provided there are thrusters located in the right places. Would become about how much thrust you put to each engine to perform the specific manoeuvre.
 
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It doesn't necessarily imply that people have left. They might just have realised that they need more resource to actually deliver a product.
True but if that was the case i would have expected more general level position openings instead of senior and lead positions.
 
There's the public outrage about this?

It's sad that people who are fans of SC are telling you to die. It's even sadder that of all their dreams, this one is the most likely to come true first. Sure, we can all laugh about the toxic SC community, but holy s guys... I'd say this is a new low, but it really isn't.

And they are complaining that this thread is toxic.
 
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