This has been one of Star Citizen's main tripping points over the years: they've never been able to clearly state what they want it to be. Instead they give a lot of "Yes/No/Maybe" answers that gives the impression to all parties involved that it will be what they want it to be in their own heads. A year ago we asked them to just tell us what are they aiming for in the flight model and got a "Deep dive" post about flight modes. It still didn't answer the question: on a scale between Freelancer and Orbiter what should we expect SC to land on that scale? Because they've talked about a lot of sim elements like how they want sensors to work, and EWAR, etc.. Yet we've need next to none of that make it in to the game and all current designs seems to cater towards a much more casual crowd. What's going to happen if they do start adding those elements thus slowing down the gameplay elements? How much flak will they take if/when they do that?
The Star Citizen Thread v5
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This has been one of Star Citizen's main tripping points over the years: they've never been able to clearly state what they want it to be. Instead they give a lot of "Yes/No/Maybe" answers that gives the impression to all parties involved that it will be what they want it to be in their own heads. A year ago we asked them to just tell us what are they aiming for in the flight model and got a "Deep dive" post about flight modes. It still didn't answer the question: on a scale between Freelancer and Orbiter what should we expect SC to land on that scale? Because they've talked about a lot of sim elements like how they want sensors to work, and EWAR, etc.. Yet we've need next to none of that make it in to the game and all current designs seems to cater towards a much more casual crowd. What's going to happen if they do start adding those elements thus slowing down the gameplay elements? How much flak will they take if/when they do that?
Hmm, perhaps, ultimately I think he is waving his hands to detract viewers and listeners from the fact he has no idea what he is describing.
The difference between SC fans and ED fans in terms of flight controls is...
The ED fans know that ED isn't realistic. The speed limit, the yaw limit, we know it's fake and only there for gameplay reasons. The only realistic thing is the scale of things and the galaxy as a whole. The generation of planets and star systems follows first principles and thus is grounded in science as well. You could argue that the FSD probably works much like an Alcubierre drive. But that's really it, everything else is just there to work well as a game.
So when an SC fan points fingers and goes "YOUR GAME IS NOT REALISTIC", the ED fan shrugs shoulders and nods in agreement. Orbiter is realistic but it's not that great of a game. If you assume availability of huge amounts of energy then Elite 2 and 3 were somewhat realistic in their flight model. You don't have that complete lack of speed limit or the kinds of BVR combat in Star Citizen. Because SC is not realistic. It's a game. Accept that, or be ridiculed and mocked for the facts are not on your side.
The ED fans know that ED isn't realistic. The speed limit, the yaw limit, we know it's fake and only there for gameplay reasons. The only realistic thing is the scale of things and the galaxy as a whole. The generation of planets and star systems follows first principles and thus is grounded in science as well. You could argue that the FSD probably works much like an Alcubierre drive. But that's really it, everything else is just there to work well as a game.
So when an SC fan points fingers and goes "YOUR GAME IS NOT REALISTIC", the ED fan shrugs shoulders and nods in agreement. Orbiter is realistic but it's not that great of a game. If you assume availability of huge amounts of energy then Elite 2 and 3 were somewhat realistic in their flight model. You don't have that complete lack of speed limit or the kinds of BVR combat in Star Citizen. Because SC is not realistic. It's a game. Accept that, or be ridiculed and mocked for the facts are not on your side.
The way that Star Citizen breaks the laws of physics and how Frontier Development does it can be explained with this hacker koan..
Interesting video. I remember purchasing Black and White and not liking it at all, with most publications making it sound like I'm doing something wrong. Turns out no, I wasn't doing anything wrong, it was just a bad game.
Also note how the comment section is filled with ad-hominems. Nobody says "You are wrong about Star Citizen because of Fact A or Link B", they all go "OMG Derek Smart" and "You're dyslexic". The video is alleged to be "clickbait" (I got the same allegation to my posting of their customer service email in that german forum btw)
And threats of bodily harm, because that has apparently become the weapon of choice against doubters.
It's sad to think that both NMS and SC are going to go down in history as some of the biggest games with a fanbase so rabid, they threaten the lives of perceived "non-believers". The only question is, will this become the new norm?
This is brilliant. How come I've never hear it before? Probably because I'm not a programmer and never was trained as one
This is brilliant. How come I've never hear it before? Probably because I'm not a programmer and never was trained as one
http://catb.org/esr/writings/unix-koans/
I've been waiting for one of them to make that threat in my YT comments...just so I can remind them that I live in a state that has a very broad Castle Doctrine law & just passed Constitutional Concealed Carry with a stand your ground provision.
I quite liked black & white but it's fair to say it didn't deliver a lot of what it promised. But it did deliver something and was quite innovative. Star citizen on the other hand might be able to do that...
Not a smart idea IMHO. Don't get me wrong, I'm a gun owner myself and I find it peculiar to see people be against legal gun ownership while advocating that you should never undock your ship without having at least a pair of multicannons...
But my Glock is never part of any debate. I wouldn't say "Oh yeah? Well I got a gun, so come at me!" - that's neither smart nor does it hold up in court, and worse, it can be construed as a "dangerous threat" in my country.
No. These death threats on youtube are hollow anyway. And if they aren't, well, you have your tool at hand if needed. No need to "show it" before it's absolutely needed
EDIT: Death threats are still completely unacceptable and part of the reason why the "SC community" often makes me shudder in disgust. Especially when any and all wrong things that go against SC are depicted as the worst crime in human history. Like linking to a public imdb page, how despicable, how could they etc.
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Not a smart idea IMHO. Don't get me wrong, I'm a gun owner myself and I find it peculiar to see people be against legal gun ownership while advocating that you should never undock your ship without having at least a pair of multicannons...
But my Glock is never part of any debate. I wouldn't say "Oh yeah? Well I got a gun, so come at me!" - that's neither smart nor does it hold up in court, and worse, it can be construed as a "dangerous threat" in my country.
No. These death threats on youtube are hollow anyway. And if they aren't, well, you have your tool at hand if needed. No need to "show it" before it's absolutely needed
EDIT: Death threats are still completely unacceptable and part of the reason why the "SC community" often makes me shudder in disgust. Especially when any and all wrong things that go against SC are depicted as the worst crime in human history. Like linking to a public imdb page, how despicable, how could they etc.
The problem with death threats on internet sites is Poe's Law. In a society where you can pick up a murder tool with your weekly shopping, you have to make it absolutely plain and clear that you are not being serious when you're threatening somebody's life.
Whenever I watch these things it reminds me of all the things in this fiasco that I'd forgotten about - there are just so many of them piling up over the years. All the things the hardcore evangelists and shills like to pretend can't have happened because DS comments on them - even though they are clearly observable to anyone who cares to look. The latest refund letter nonsense simply being another on a huge list.
At this point Star Citizen is pretty much guaranteed to go down in history as the most robustly criticised thanks to CR's absurdly hyped feature list and the huge amounts of backer money involved.
Death threats have to be taken seriously to be considered actionable, this is more along the lines of online harassment that involves people making death threats that are upsetting (or funny depends on how the recipient see's it) but not actually credible as threats.
To be fair though. That video consists of 9 pretty boring, short, vague descriptions the same old examples we all know, then at number #1 everyone's unfinished crowd funded project. He kind of just reads out Derek's comments for a few minutes with Major Tom's videos in the background.
I can't think of a more obvious way to wind up SC fans short of turning up at Citizencon, raising your hand in the middle of the big presentation and shouting out that you have legitimate concerns and that this Derek Smart chappy might have a few reasonable points that could even generate positive debate towards this project and other space games are good to play sometimes. Then legging it.
I couldn't just give you rep to show that I agree with you. I'm all repped out. Sorry
My guess is that it will come out and be disappointing in some ways and impressive in others. One thing they'll have is a huge amount of art assets, just because of the size of the team. It'll look great. But if it's space combat you're after, I think ELITE will still probably be better. People spending thousands of dollars on it are so far away from what I'm capable of I struggle to understand their thinking or how they're likely to react when it just turns out to be another game with good bits and bad bits!
Aye " MVP something" will get birthed out the space door and that'll be the end of the refunding. There'll be some platitudes made saying how the game isnt finished and it'll keep being added to but there'll be the quiet caveat about "as long as it's still bringing in money". People will be OK with that until they are not ok with that and start asking where the 130 million before MVP was shoved out went.
Yes - it's fair to say that referencing DS in any criticism of SC is not the best plan.
That said though some will mention him anyway at any given opportunity.
There was a recent article somewhere that was critical - it made no reference to DS or any of the things he was blogging about at that time and one of the first three comments - from one of the known roving idiots - was yeah but Derek Smart's line of defence was rubbish!
The next one quoted it asking who was derek smart and what did he have to do with anything - I checked back after a few days and the whole article only had about 8 comments and the idiot had presumably deleted his comment because it and the reply were gone.
The Derek watch patrol is real!
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I would love to see someone do that!! Anyone talk to the Jackass lot if they are looking for an "upset the neckbeard" type of challenge. Would be so funny.
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