I predict SC will never be in a position to have to worry about that.
When you release so many things, it's OK to stumble occasionally. Now if you were still stuck releasing one thing.....
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The Star Citizen Thread v5
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I predict SC will never be in a position to have to worry about that.
When you release so many things, it's OK to stumble occasionally. Now if you were still stuck releasing one thing.....
I'm not sure I follow that example....
The server is updating 1000 clients, each with the positional and heading information for 1000 ships. As stated, no velocity data and nothing for other objects. That's 1000 packets of 288 bits.
That is...it is sending 288 Kbits to each of 1000 clients for a total of approx. 288 Mb per update. Or 36MB per update. Or 108MB for 3 updates per second mentioned. That's what the server is pumping out.
But each client only receives 1/1000th of that total data...about 100KB/s...so are we not talking about an update bandwidth that is much less? And while the server has a much greater load, surely it is at a data centre where it can handle that?
It's late and I'm likely missing something
Well, he-who-will-not-be-named has sought similar status, yet the thread on Line of Defense was closed exactly for discussing the developer in less-than-favorable terms.
Posts discussing Frontier staff (by name) in a negative manner are regularly deleted.
So, it seems personal attacks are fine, depending at whom they are directed?
Doesn't the Server need to know what each of the 1000 Clients are doing and the Clients what the other 999 clients are doing
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/features-roadmap-elite-dangerous-horizons,31151.html
"The developers plan to release one upgrade for every season in 2016. Update 2.1, called “The Engineers,” will come later this spring. Players will see an expanded mission system as well as the ability to loot enemies. The same update also enables the ability to craft various modules and weapons for your favorite spacecraft.
In the summer, the “Guardians” update will introduce the concept of ship-launched fighters, which could help even the odds when you’re outnumbered in the vast darkness of space. “The Commanders” fall update will allow you and your friends to work together in a multi-crew ship."
Its a tricky one. DS is a known member of these forums, thereby getting protection from the rule about no abuse at another forum member.
Others are not forum members (that we know), thereby do not qualify for the same level of protection.
So, if for example CR signed up for our forums, and posted here, he could theoretically get the same level of protection. CR did apparently back ED like DB backed SC.
At least, if i'm interpreting the rules right. Might need Brett to confirm my understanding.
Each client needs send the data for one ship.
Each client needs receive the data for 1000 ships/objects
Using Hanz figures, that is 288 bits upload, 288000 bits download (288 bits giving the XYZ coords plus the heading for ach of 1000 ships). I don't think it needs to receive the same data 1000 times.
The main load of the system is at the server end because it will need to send that data to the clients several times a second. But it shouldn't be packaging all 1000 pieces of info into one big package - it should be send in a small piece of info to each client individually. The servers bandwidth might thus be 100 MB/s but that should be easy enough for a data centre to handle and the client end can make do with a much smaller bandwidth
So, I cannot really follow Hanz's issue here. If the position and heading of each ship can be represented by 288 bits, then each client can receive the positional information for 1000 vessels with only 288000 bits. Even if we treble that to account for issues such as object identifiers, speed and other info then each client should be able to receive that data three times per second with a 3 Meg link, not 300.
But as I said, it's late and I am likely missing something. I'm just not seeing where he is getting a requirement for a 300 meg link.
He seems to be envisioning some kind of peer-to-peer setup with no central authority to do the heavy lifting of collecting and distributing data, that's all.
But even so, there's a point in all of that. Sure, the data centre should reasonably have good enough a connection to keep that feed going, but remember, this is just the position data — the most minute and compact data the clients need to know, and it's only for the ships and only at a horribly low tick rate. Now add in all the supposed damage states and character stats and ship setups and decorations and performance data and projectiles and world effects etc etc etc. The packet for each client balloons very quickly for each client, and you then slap the O(n²) problem on top of that and bring the whole thing up to a speed that is acceptable in an real-time action environment.
And that's for one of these supposed fights. Using a generic service not meant for that kind of connectivity and without the highly specialised custom setup that, say, CCP had to employ to get their (very low-bandwidth) 1k fights going. Even the server end will easily be choked in that situation, and it's not something you can just throw money and standardised components on to solve — CIG has to actually sit down and solve it on their end, in spite of whatever fancy network layer LY adds to the client. And speaking of throwing money at the problem, consider how much AWS bandwidth and computation sets you back in such a scenario… and again, that's just one fight. I'm guessing that both CIG and the citizens expect there to be more activity than that going on.
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That's true....but at the same time, CIG seem to be limiting their aim to 100 or 200 players per instance. Not 1000. And not all information sent by the client to the server us necessarily going to be sent out as part of the update packet.
There would of course be varying ways of optimising the data....a speed section might not be needed if the system simply used positional data for example.
I suppose a peer to peer setup could explain where the extra data is coming from. As I said, I couldn't see any need why his figures would require a 300meg pipe but I was thinking of a client-server set up.
Actually CR has talked about 1000's players per instance.
[video=youtube;nvule1cD_zk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvule1cD_zk&feature=youtu.be&t=28m[/video]
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Don't forget the super-duper animation system, which is going to require a lot of state information to be sent/received before a character's animation can be reconstructed. And you can't cheat, because that would undermine the whole point of it (player pose being consistent from all view points).
Just call him Derek.
The thread on line of defence got closed because it was an obvious troll thread organized out of a criminal hate sub that some of us occaisionally read and comment on.
Of course attacks on frontier staff get deleted this is thier forum and they read it, what do you expect.
Its either all a conspiracy, or this backwater offtopic thread in a competitors forum for an unfinished niche game is driving some obsessive types absolutely round the bend.
You do realize that Derek Smart is right about SC ?.
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Sigh... I wish Larry Holland had had a 2012 Kickstarter as well. I would have very gladly supported the ED and SC equivalent of Tie Fighter. That guy knows how to make a fun space game.
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P2P? What happened to the full C/S architecture that was talked about?
That means that SC will be plagued by many of the same issues ED was/is.
I think it's fair to say that so far the only thing CIG have saved PC gaming from is 140 million in funding.
I got an infraction for image spam, Gaaah ! it's true it's evil mod bias you are all Deerpark Slurm.
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To address "FD was late with Season 2" too. They changed release dates to TBD soon after 2.0 release. Yes, first preorder pitch was 2.4 in winter 2016, but that was gone after Horizons launch issues and realities kicked in. FD also missed original release date, they released ED Alpha 1.0 at planned release time though. However, between those two, they hit any release date they have set for themselves.
Also it really doesn't make Chris uttering 'this is our end of the year plan' knowing there IS NO PLAN any better. He clearly knew they won't hit that target, they knew they won't hit Squadron 42 release date for 2016. They kept on going about them for months.
Also it really doesn't make Chris uttering 'this is our end of the year plan' knowing there IS NO PLAN any better. He clearly knew they won't hit that target, they knew they won't hit Squadron 42 release date for 2016. They kept on going about them for months.
As for reality of network connections and how client/server changes that and what are limitations of that setup - it is really pointless to argue. As I have said, client/server on twitch based MMO is incredible tricky thing to do, SC has no mechanisms at this point to 'hide' latencies and delays which other games has. And that is just for your basic 24 player instancing alone. 100? Are you kidding me?
As for *impression* of huge battles, they would need clever LoD system for that (it IS however doable) and I just don't see how that's gonna happen in nearest future because you need that stuff already in Squadron 42. It might appear in SC at some point though. Also what's a kick per buck there - if space is huge enough, there's simply too much space to cramp anyone in single place.
I suspect after all this 'pie in the sky' dreaming SC engineers will go after realistic 50 - 75 (which was actually original pitch) for instance and if they will get it right and won't break speed of the battle/etc, I will be positively impressed.
As for *impression* of huge battles, they would need clever LoD system for that (it IS however doable) and I just don't see how that's gonna happen in nearest future because you need that stuff already in Squadron 42. It might appear in SC at some point though. Also what's a kick per buck there - if space is huge enough, there's simply too much space to cramp anyone in single place.
I suspect after all this 'pie in the sky' dreaming SC engineers will go after realistic 50 - 75 (which was actually original pitch) for instance and if they will get it right and won't break speed of the battle/etc, I will be positively impressed.
300 series is a lot of fun to fly, and they look cool too.
I have a 325a - and yes the 300 series do "look" cool.
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