I also seem to recall them being quite bold with their FOIP/headtracking accuracy claims, the responses in that reddit link suggest otherwise (so I've edited my post).
The Star Citizen Thread v9
- Thread starter Yaffle
- Start date
I also seem to recall them being quite bold with their FOIP/headtracking accuracy claims, the responses in that reddit link suggest otherwise (so I've edited my post).
If you want to promote Star Citizen, go for it. I (for one) won't bite.
My issues are with stuff like CIGs inability to keep promises, the mismanagement, the fact they will never be able to deliver the promised game, the predatory marketing techniques, the lies and deception that I believe CIG and CR engage in to hide their lack of progress and so on.
Do I think a game will be delivered? Yes. Assuming CIG survive. Which I am less convinced of....but, assuming they aren't killed off by the lawsuit, I think they'll stick around long enough to deliver.
Do I think the game they deliver will be the game people expect? Unless the mythical dev build exists....then no. CIG are showing absolutely no sign that they will be even able to match a fraction of the vision. I think that is a pity. NMS Next shows that the vision is achievable and with ED, the issue is more making an economic case rather than technical ability. Some of the newer games such as I:B also show a large degree of promise.
But CIG? CIG shows every sign off failing. The project is grossly mismanaged, they have squandered millions producing nothing and the only dreams they have fulfilled are their own. They are producing a game, but the game they are producing cannot....literally cannot....come close to meeting the expectations of the buyers. Not only that, it will not come close to meeting their feature list and the reasons are 1:the game engine does not appear capable of handling even a fraction of what the full vision will require 2: the game was created without proper design 3: feature creep and promises made without thought as to how feasible they were to add and 4: Chris Roberts and his poor management
Star Citizen is DEAD. It cannot be saved. It cannot be resurrected. And I do not think CIG has the goodwill, money or time needed to fix the problems. Yes...I think they'll stick around for several more years, but that isn't long enough to fix what is wrong. To live up to the vision, to do so within a reasonable time frame and cost, CIG need to start again. They need to cut down their staff to manageable levels (too big for flexibility, but too small for AAA development anyway) to reduce costs, they need to create an engine capable of handling the game and they need to DESIGN and then FEATURE LOCK the game before starting the heavy coding.
Even then, they might not survive long enough to create the game, but unless something major changes, that seems to be the only viable path to delivery.
So...go ahead and try to promote Star Citizen or query it or whatever. But the game being promised cannot be delivered so don't base any decision to pledge on that. The game is still 2-3 years away from delivery, even as a "pre launch" early access test, and that is IF they manage to get Stanton and the basic systems in by patch 3.5. Additional content, systems and so on will require at least the addition of patch 4.x and another year before we arrive at that point.
But CIG will eventually deliver a game.
It might even be fun - actually, I'll guarantee it will be fun, for some people and/or for a certain amount of time.
But - it won't be "epic". It won't be "groundbreaking" It won't be a "gamechanger". It won't be anything special at all. It is already being overtaken in terms of scope and looks by smaller games. And, if you do preorder the game, then don't expect to get your money back.
I wouldn't go that far. They've been releasing "on schedule", but doing so by delaying content and systems, some of which is critical.
Goes back to his point. Star Citizen, for all the hype about it being a space sim....isn't one. It's an FPS game with some ship based systems. with ED, the focus is on the ships. Even when FD bring in space legs, I would expect FD to do so by working around the current systems...e.g. making use of HoloMe to negate the need to walk down corridors and access rights to avoid the need to map out entire stations.
Of course, even in Start Citizen, CIG are "cheating" like that.
They are not cheating... you just don't understand meme development! 
You can be enthusiastic about any game but this one around here. If you do, prepare for the usual army of people to jump on you to tell you you shouldn't be enthusiastic, you are not supposed to enjoy yourself and then they'll try to strap you into a chair and force you to listen to how CR is so evil and how development is terrible. Then they show you pictures about bears and other memes and everyone laughs.
You better laugh too.
You dont have to regurgitate the same mantras every single time someone here shows up and shows signs of having a good time.
What on Earth have you running in the background? 160+ processes!
Eh I don't know. I see a lot of blind enthusiasm, I see a lot of refusals to accept any of the problems or challenges, I see a lot of defense for delays, pay to win, dropping of features etc. That tends to be what gets people responding the way they do. Otherwise one can be as enthusiastic as they want.
The 'still having fun regardless' doesn't get anywhere because there isn't any gameplay that can be captured from the build that is remotely appealing to anybody, even those who are really into the space game genre. Nichole D'Angelo (Batgirl), who has just come back from a long break as a SC content creator has reached the same conclusion:
https://youtu.be/rVz5_GZ90QE?t=5m43s
"I'll usually go in for the first couple weeks of a patch and then kind of fall off. And the main reason for that is we're still only playing in Crusader, I know it's going to get better, I'm getting really really really bored. *Really* bored. Really really really *really* bored. With Port Olisar. And Grim Hex. And Levski.
That's it in a nutshell. We've seen the same corridors and janky spaceships and clipping issues for years. I've yet to see a video of anyone completing a basic box carrying mission but I've watched a few people try.
So to try and run a counter narrative to all of the disaster and drama and hilarity, well it just doesn't seem to work - and I'm seeing the clergy trying to talk up the mining, then the 600i, and then that 2018 will somehow be the year that CIG shake off the "stigma". All in the last few weeks.
So it's natural and inevitable that everyone looking at the lack of gameplay or fundamental tech or the horribly broken engine when the project is in year 7 with $180m of crowdfunded money behind it is asking WHY? What on earth has gone wrong? So you're either looking for answers or your just going to ignore all of that and 'have fun'. I've no problem with the latter and I've said so. Knock yourself out. Post the videos of having fun so we can continue to ask the exact same questions of this project.
I'll even answer Batgirl's criticism so that the clergy don't have to - 'once object container streaming is in the Stanton system can be added'. Problem is we've been hearing that every year since 2014. Once tech X is in they can add Y.
For example Network Bind Culling was coming in November 2016:
Then it was pushed to 2.6.1
Then we had Message Ordering, Serialised Variables.
Now we have Object Container Streaming.
Now we have 1,000 player instances coming next year.
Even the mining trailer that was shown in May to sell the mining ships showed asteroids being blown apart for mining. Chris talked about having the tech for that back in 2014:
Oct 2014 10ftc Ep 43:
"We need to have the asteroids break apart and be synchronised across the network properly without increasing network traffic too much, and that's part of a whole new network prediction scheme that we're putting in."
- Chris Roberts
But they don't. And they don't have any of that other tech either. They sell ships by talking about tech they don't have and can't build - and as far as I can see the build they have right now cannot stand on its own as a demonstration of anything resembling a game or sim or anything remotely enjoyable or engaging.
They hit the brick wall of networking with the 3.0 build which many people predicted they would. And they hit that wall so hard and so fast they had to move IFCS into a background process (breaking it) and disable most of the AI to have it run at a decent framerate.
I'm sorry that all of this stuff is more interesting to me (and others) than a video of half a dozen commandos clipping around inside a broken CryEngine mod but it just is.
https://youtu.be/rVz5_GZ90QE?t=5m43s
"I'll usually go in for the first couple weeks of a patch and then kind of fall off. And the main reason for that is we're still only playing in Crusader, I know it's going to get better, I'm getting really really really bored. *Really* bored. Really really really *really* bored. With Port Olisar. And Grim Hex. And Levski.
That's it in a nutshell. We've seen the same corridors and janky spaceships and clipping issues for years. I've yet to see a video of anyone completing a basic box carrying mission but I've watched a few people try.
So to try and run a counter narrative to all of the disaster and drama and hilarity, well it just doesn't seem to work - and I'm seeing the clergy trying to talk up the mining, then the 600i, and then that 2018 will somehow be the year that CIG shake off the "stigma". All in the last few weeks.
So it's natural and inevitable that everyone looking at the lack of gameplay or fundamental tech or the horribly broken engine when the project is in year 7 with $180m of crowdfunded money behind it is asking WHY? What on earth has gone wrong? So you're either looking for answers or your just going to ignore all of that and 'have fun'. I've no problem with the latter and I've said so. Knock yourself out. Post the videos of having fun so we can continue to ask the exact same questions of this project.
I'll even answer Batgirl's criticism so that the clergy don't have to - 'once object container streaming is in the Stanton system can be added'. Problem is we've been hearing that every year since 2014. Once tech X is in they can add Y.
For example Network Bind Culling was coming in November 2016:
Then it was pushed to 2.6.1
Then we had Message Ordering, Serialised Variables.
Now we have Object Container Streaming.
Now we have 1,000 player instances coming next year.
Even the mining trailer that was shown in May to sell the mining ships showed asteroids being blown apart for mining. Chris talked about having the tech for that back in 2014:
Oct 2014 10ftc Ep 43:
"We need to have the asteroids break apart and be synchronised across the network properly without increasing network traffic too much, and that's part of a whole new network prediction scheme that we're putting in."
- Chris Roberts
But they don't. And they don't have any of that other tech either. They sell ships by talking about tech they don't have and can't build - and as far as I can see the build they have right now cannot stand on its own as a demonstration of anything resembling a game or sim or anything remotely enjoyable or engaging.
They hit the brick wall of networking with the 3.0 build which many people predicted they would. And they hit that wall so hard and so fast they had to move IFCS into a background process (breaking it) and disable most of the AI to have it run at a decent framerate.
I'm sorry that all of this stuff is more interesting to me (and others) than a video of half a dozen commandos clipping around inside a broken CryEngine mod but it just is.
Oh - and the latest thing Erin is talking up is FOIP, with head tracking and voice data being transmitted to other players - when they had to REMOVE the AI because it was hogging up the bandwidth and reduce the IFCS network load by 60% (breaking it).
Pull the other one Erin. You're going to transmit facial data, headtracking data and voice data from the clients when they can't even cope with the AI?
Pure rubbish.
Pull the other one Erin. You're going to transmit facial data, headtracking data and voice data from the clients when they can't even cope with the AI?
Pure rubbish.
I see the same thing and then eventually I see them all trying to get a refund. They all go through the same process. A lot of whales are trying to cash out right now including one or two VERY big whales.
I think there is a big difference between a largely rational "Hey, I'm having subjective fun in the alpha and we goofed around in a ship for a couple of hours"... which is fair enough and a level of the draw of any mmo is the social aspect.
That is way different to posting "Hmmm, I know just about all of you here are sceptical of CiG's business model and capability to deliver, so I'll naivety troll you by asking your opinion on spending $400 on a ship based on the fact that me and some mates had a couple of hours fun mooching around in it" followed up by justifying with "I have spent over 1000 hours in a previously released space game, so what is the problem with tying myself to spending twice as long in SC in order to get a similar RoI?"
If anyone, on a thread about any other game asked you "Hey, should I drop $400 on a wholly unnecessary purchase in the alpha environment?" I find it hard to believe that your answer could be anything more positive than "Dude, if that's how you want to spend you money, nobody can stop you; but personally I would wait until the game is released"
I checked and I have 2218 hours in "the other game", for reference, although I haven't played so much in the last 3 months due to an EQ renaissance and getting MGSV
P free on XBox Gold.
I think there is a big difference between a largely rational "Hey, I'm having subjective fun in the alpha and we goofed around in a ship for a couple of hours"... which is fair enough and a level of the draw of any mmo is the social aspect.
That is way different to posting "Hmmm, I know just about all of you here are sceptical of CiG's business model and capability to deliver, so I'll naivety troll you by asking your opinion on spending $400 on a ship based on the fact that me and some mates had a couple of hours fun mooching around in it" followed up by justifying with "I have spent over 1000 hours in a previously released space game, so what is the problem with tying myself to spending twice as long in SC in order to get a similar RoI?"
If anyone, on a thread about any other game asked you "Hey, should I drop $400 on a wholly unnecessary purchase in the alpha environment?" I find it hard to believe that your answer could be anything more positive than "Dude, if that's how you want to spend you money, nobody can stop you; but personally I would wait until the game is released"
I checked and I have 2218 hours in "the other game", for reference, although I haven't played so much in the last 3 months due to an EQ renaissance and getting MGSV
*popcorn*
And the "usual" people jump on the opportunity to throw some more salt, its a perfect place for my daily dose of i.drama /woot ^^
Of course, this never actually happened — it's just some wholly nonsensical and imaginary woe-are-us garb of self-victimisation that people like to don to try to curry pre-emptive pity points before it turns out that there's nothing to be pitied.
Sadly, it is becoming entirely believable that I have spent more time surfing this thread, than playing "the other game"... speaks volumes about me I expect :/
Didnt you post something about how this how thing would be kaput in 2 weeks like 2 weeks ago? What happened to those posts?
"You cant have fun, there is no fun for anybody!!!!!"
"Nobody said you cant have fun!!!!"
This is basically SA without the humor and self-awareness. [haha]
Fixed it for ya. If there is anything on this planet more unreliably than CR's release estimates its the predictions in this thread. I guess they dont understand game development either.
Or having to pay for the privilege of posting.
are you doing ok? im afraid these mental gymnastics might injure somebody....
And no-one actually said either of those things either. You really enjoy making up this incoherent nonsense, don't you?
You do understand that those two don't actually contradict each other, right? There was this whole thing a little while back about context, and I seem to recall that you were involved in that discussion — you might want to apply that in this case as well.
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Send me a friend request, same name in SC, we can go some box carrying mission tomorrow.