The Star Citizen Thread v9

[MTBFritz]

I’m sitting here thinking I’m screwed. I’ve been having all this fun and I don’t know if I own any games. Can someone please let me know. Are the following games?

star citizen
kerbal space program
space engineers
subnautica

ive owned these games for a very long time. Yet, I’m not sure I own games! All of them were either Alpha or Beta when I bought them.

So please help, as I’m confused.

Why do you even care? Isnt having fun on your own enough? Do you need reassurance from others? Or do you feel somehow "offended" when other people have higher standards then you do or expect to get what was sold to them by Cash Roberts? I am quite bewildered as to the sudden focus on something so meaningless as "your" fun or the definition of what a game is especially when people who who call it a non-game also explain their taking on it and how they come to that conclusion. Ramble ramble *attention span* ramble ramble.

Okay dont take the last bit too serious please, I m just in a funny mood this morning. I suspect the missus put something in my coffee and will present me her latest "purchase" later when I m sedated and all smiling

 

[Viajero]

Sorry, I have literally posted a formal definition, twice. Linked to official sources. Others did the same, all definitions very much on the same page, all conclude SC is obviously a game. And repeatedly, not just by me, you, AA and Tippis were asked to post a formal definition. And every time you folks don't and just dismiss all definitions from every dictionary as 'absurd'.

Okay, fine. I dont see the point but if this is your hill, have at it.

I beg to disagree. We have offered details of what we considered consttutes a game and also we have offered details and examples of what does not. Some of the "definitions" offered by others are so generalistic and broad (allowing for inclusion of things that are obviously not games) that they become useless in this discussion.

I am afraid that if your understanding of what a game is leads you to state for example that Space Engine is one, then our view points about what SC is today, and what it offers today, are so far apart that it does indeed not make much sense to continue the discussion.

Cheers.

 

[MTBFritz]

I beg to disagree. We have offered details of what we considered consttutes a game and also we have offered details and examples of what does not.

I am afraid that if your understanding of what a game is leads you to state for example that Space Engine is one, then our view points about what SC is today, and what it offers today, are so far apart that it does indeed not make much sense to continue the discussion.

Cheers.

The internet says so it must be correct. Todays online definitions are taken as facts when there are many sites who offer different takes on any chosen subject...just pick what you like?

I still like to think for myself and common sense is sometimes hard to obtain in todays society. The current back and forth reminds me more of intentional aggravating rather then an honest discussion to clear the field. People unwilling to give their own definition instead taking a stance on what the internet tells them. Its a real circus today and all the usual suspects are out in force ^^

 

[Number2]

The internet says so it must be correct. Todays online definitions are taken as facts when there are many sites who offer different takes on any chosen subject...just pick what you like?

I still like to think for myself and common sense is sometimes hard to obtain in todays society. The current back and forth reminds me more of intentional aggravating rather then an honest discussion to clear the field. People unwilling to give their own definition instead taking a stance on what the internet tells them. Its a real circus today and all the usual suspects are out in force ^^

Fritz I agree its silly, it is what it is game or not game, you should all should put a line under it and argue about something else

 

[kilvenny]

My take is that SC is a game. It is not the game I envisaged at the Kickstarter, nor is it the game I envisaged at the end of the stretch goal period. It is a cut down subset of some of the aspects envisaged at the Kickstarter and at the end of the stretch goal period.

I think if your bias is to a space flight game as opposed to an FPS game with space flight then I think your perspective that this is a game will be tested.

When computer gaming began it was impossible to do the graphics so FPS was not really a thing. Hence why flight sims were a major thing, now as graphics have improved FPS has become the common gaming base and Flight sims reduced to a small subset of players. I believe people genuinely enjoy the FPS, walking around, have fun with the mates style gameplay. SC has that going for it and I can see people enjoying it for what it is. This latest version has seen SC get a frame rate that is acceptable rather than ideal, that will bring players to the game and it's all new and fun, but is there enough to keep people playing? In my view there isn't, but I am not invested in it by even one cent and have almost zero interest in the gameplay I can currently see.

If we call it a game then it should be reviewed and this is where I have issue. No one reviews it or at least not critically, it's all about the next epic step SC has taken in it's development process to the wonderful nirvana people imagine. At some point a line needs to be drawn in the sand and SC critically reviewed for what it is. Until that time SC seems to me to have a free pass in the gaming press, who seem happy to fuel the dream.

At the same time bubbling along at the same time we have 200 million dollars worth of crowdfund, circa 500 employees and a lawsuit and six or seven years of development depending on what story you believe and no refunds. Not to mention the Internet Warlord and the light he casts with his samurai sword, I mean pen.

Somehow things trundle on, but how long will the entertainment continue. I have a free season ticket to the entertainment and have done for six years. How long will it continue for?

 

[MTBFritz]

Fritz I agree its silly, it is what it is game or not game, you should all should put a line under it and argue about something else

Oh I gave my stance on this a couple pages back, theres really nothing else I could say without repeating myself, I currently enjoy watching the spectacle hence my silly comments /grin

 

[ianw]

“Freelancer was essentially me wanting to do Privateer right,” ....... Freelancer was my wanting to go back and do that right with the big budget and really blow it out.”


Oh dear.

Let's do a search and replace..

“SC was essentially me wanting to do Freelancer right,” ...... SC was my wanting to go back and do that right with the big budget and really blow it out.”


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15QngStkp-E

It's like deja vu - all over again and again!

 

[VR Golgot]

ED and SC were exactly the same price.

Yep but the fun he's described involved a 600i, which would appear to be about $400 on top. Given he couldn't have achieved the same with the starter ship, this seems relevant.

Now let us all define fun!

 

[MTBFritz]

Yep but the fun he's described involved a 600i, which would appear to be about $400 on top. Given he couldn't have achieved the same with the starter ship, this seems relevant.

Now let us all define fun!

Too late, we had that already along with "winning" and other things

 

[Cobra1984]

Somehow things trundle on, but how long will the entertainment continue. I have a free season ticket to the entertainment and have done for six years. How long will it continue for?

The final months of 2018 has been about backers/fans declaring, 'this is a game now'.

It has been demonstrated using the most unsophisticated definition of 'game' that it is possible to find - and dozens of hours of streams with little substance or depth.

By the middle of next year the Crytek trial will begin - it's kicking into discovery mode shortly.

Technical issues abound in the builds still, devs external to the project continue to discuss and unpack what on earth is going on under the hood.

An ex-investor has commented publically that he believes 2019 will be CIG's final year as an active company.

Ship sales continue.

There is still no roadmap for SQ42 as we enter it's fifth year over the original release date.

How long will it continue? To me, it's still a race between the engine, the funding and the lawsuit.

Those are the three pillars holding it up, those are the three risks CIG contend with and mitigate on a continual basis.

There won't be another game crowdfunded to this level in my lifetime. I have been equally fascinated by the phenomenon surrounding it and sickened by its failure.

 

[Tippis]

“Freelancer was essentially me wanting to do Privateer right,” ....... Freelancer was my wanting to go back and do that right with the big budget and really blow it out.”

That's pretty insulting to the people who actually made Privateer too, and (just to spark another flame war) doubly so when it was the right:est game in the entire WC franchise.

Chris never really grasped this whole notion that creativity and artistry comes out of working against and within limitations, did he? [haha]

 

[jmp470]

Why do you even care? Isnt having fun on your own enough? Do you need reassurance from others? Or do you feel somehow "offended" when other people have higher standards then you do or expect to get what was sold to them by Cash Roberts? I am quite bewildered as to the sudden focus on something so meaningless as "your" fun or the definition of what a game is especially when people who who call it a non-game also explain their taking on it and how they come to that conclusion. Ramble ramble *attention span* ramble ramble.

Okay dont take the last bit too serious please, I m just in a funny mood this morning. I suspect the missus put something in my coffee and will present me her latest "purchase" later when I m sedated and all smiling

that post was a complete joke about being a game. All of those games have provided hours of entertainment each and I wouldn’t get rid of a single one

 

[jmp470]

Yep but the fun he's described involved a 600i, which would appear to be about $400 on top. Given he couldn't have achieved the same with the starter ship, this seems relevant.

Now let us all define fun!

all the fun I do in the 600 can be had in the starter ships too. Heck, we can meet up in Mustangs or the ???MR ship. It’s not the ship that matters (but, let’s be honest, the 600i is sexy as hell, so that matters) but, the interaction that comes with meeting people.

 

[ECity]

I did a few gaming sessions yesterday...
This is written today, Saturday Morning, and I cannot wait to log back in to play more.

That sounds so awesome. What is the total price in dollars for all the ships involved in your story?

Even one of the guys I was running with yesterday bought the andromeda package for $275. If it was horrible, would he do that?

If Trump University was so bad why did people put so much money into it?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

i have a much better idea, add me as a contact Lord_Pydus in SC. We can group up and run missions together. Also, of course their are negatives. Disconnects, or no room in a server, or a globe of light in the 600i. Perfect, no way. But, good enough to become my default game and sink real money into it. Even one of the guys I was running with yesterday bought the andromeda package for $275. If it was horrible, would he do that?

Sorry, no can do. I played it during the free fly. I'm not giving CR a single kopek until I see a game i like the look of, which might be never.

Like i said, a video would be highly appreciated.

As for your friend sinking $275 into the game, i'm sure he thinks it is worthwhile, i think its absoloute insanity. To each their own. In its current state i don't think SC is worth even $5 just to have a mess around in. The main thing going for SC at the moment is the social interactions, and there are a hundred games out there where i can have similar social interactions, some of which i already own. I don't need another game for social interactions. If i was considering buying another space game at the moment, then it would be either X4 or NMS.

Perhaps, just perhaps, in another few years, if CIG get full persistence in, fix the stuipid issues with losing your ship in you crash or disconnect, or hell, just need to log off in a hurry, and add a few more locations, activities, and game loops in, i might consider it worth $30. I might be pushed to $60 if it looks like they have got their act together, it looks like they have a solid plan rather than lots of promises with no apparent way of making a coherent game from them, and if they stop building hype before doing another ship sale, before dropping the news that something isn't going to make the next patch. Last time i looked, minumum package was $75, and that is far too much for what is on offer.

So, how about that video?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Agony upload your most recent abysmal game play video along with your PC specs we may be able to help you. It is also difficult for us to connect with your experience when we are having such a different one. Oh and try not to use the word game it upsets folk and we do not want that.

I have two videos, one uploaded.

[video=youtube;bQvKS2c7oIw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQvKS2c7oIw[/video]

I don't think i captured the awesome part where i tried shooting someone in the head at point blank range several times, and it didn't kill them, but they somehow teleported behind me and then killed me without drawing a weapon. I'll put that down to network lag though.

However, this video shows off some really awsome moments, such as 10 minutes in QT, and finally, when getting to my destination, being unable to QT down to the planet, despite reading half a dozen different threads on the topic. Something bugged out i presume.

I acknowlege my PC specs are well under par, which i why i won't mention performance, except to say, they have a long way to go if they want to get a lot of players playing. Not everyone can afford awesome rigs. Still, that problem might solve itself with time, as eventually everyone will upgrade sooner or later. On the other hand, we hear reports of bad performance on good rigs, so....

The one positive thing i will say is the guys in global chat were really helpful, giving me info about how to things. It saved me quite a bit of alt-tabbing.

On the down side:

QT travel times are horrendous.
Losing your ship if you crash/disconnect/log off without getting into a bed is unacceptable.
Flight model is makes the NMS flight model look positively good.
Walk model is the worst i've ever experienced in any FPS game.

 

[VR Golgot]

all the fun I do in the 600 can be had in the starter ships too. Heck, we can meet up in Mustangs or the ???MR ship. It’s not the ship that matters (but, let’s be honest, the 600i is sexy as hell, so that matters) but, the interaction that comes with meeting people.

You would have earned the same trade creds and won the same engagements in a starter ship eh? (Even though the starter ship can't shift crates, as I understand it). Or you're saying having your friends do the actual things and getting horribly outgunned would have been the fun bit?

Well then it barely seems worth buying the 600i at all...

 

[Tippis]

all the fun I do in the 600 can be had in the starter ships too. Heck, we can meet up in Mustangs or the ???MR ship. It’s not the ship that matters (but, let’s be honest, the 600i is sexy as hell, so that matters) but, the interaction that comes with meeting people.

Coincidentally, this is why “fun” and “entertainment” are such poor qualifiers. As social critters, we can find that in anything we do with other social critters without it offering any insight into the quality of the activity itself (cf. eurogames vs. ameritrash schisms in board gaming).

 

[Asp Explorer]

I acknowlege my PC specs are well under par, which i why i won't mention performance, except to say, they have a long way to go if they want to get a lot of players playing. Not everyone can afford awesome rigs. Still, that problem might solve itself with time, as eventually everyone will upgrade sooner or later. On the other hand, we hear reports of bad performance on good rigs, so....

Yeah - it really doesn't matter what your specs are, SC runs terribly no matter what hardware you throw at it. Between myself and my friend's equipment we've cobbled together various frankenrigs over the years - and apart from loading times it's not made a shred of difference - performance is still in the bucket. Hell, we've even "borrowed" enterprise grade kit and infrastructure and even that got lulzed at.

That's not to say that progress hasn't been made - a couple of versions ago we were talking seconds per frame and utterly, completely ridiculous RAM consumption. However, the continuing "three steps forward, here's a new concept JPEG, two steps back, buy an Idris!" nature of their development process shows no signs of changing.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

After reading the last ten pages (and still haven’t caught up) I just had to weigh in on the current topic.

Is Star Citizen a game?

By any reasonable definition it is.

It certainly is mine. I considered Minecraft Alpha 1.4 a game. I considered the initial alphas of Stonehearth a game. I considered the Alphas of Elite Dangerous and Mechwarrior Online a game.

If that was truly the heart of the issue, then this this topic wouldn’t have reached Hotel California levels of posts. Unfortunately of many of us who were looking forward to SC, there are other issues at play here.

When I Kickstarted SC back in 2012, I did so asked on a promise of a game with certain features that would be released in 2014, had been a year in development, and already had a working engine and the prototype game. By this time, having backed other games, I mentally added a year to that release date.

As the years went by, it became clear that what I was promised for my money, a spiritual successor to Wing Commander and Privateer, wasn’t the game they were making. I found out that there had been no prototype, and the engine wasn’t anywhere near ready. I became aware of CIGs shady business practices, from predatory marketing, to welching on their deals with business partners (Crytek being a primary example) and backers, to shell companies and shades of “Hollywood Accounting.” All the while, their development strategy was essentially putting the cart before the horse, which has led to four years and counting delays, a barely functional Alpha, and repeatedly having to rework in-game assets that shouldn’t have been completed until the core design work was finished, and the engine in workable condition.

Thank goodness I got my money out of this project before CIG changed their terms of service again.

Summing up nicely the problems some people have with the project in general.

Its like when people ask "Why do you hate Star Citizen?"

I don't think anyone hates Star Citizen. Many skeptics love the idea of it, or the original idea of it. What people don't like is the shady stuff that CIG have pulled to get where they are. CIG promised to behave not like the big publishers, but they probably have the big publishers facepalming right now saying "Why didn't we think of that? We are amateurs compared to the guys at CIG!"