The Star Citizen Thread

[Hermit]

The way CIG had edited the original PAX-East presentation, you'd think it had all gone very smoothly. It didn't give me confidence when I saw the original.

But now the DFM is finally out, I'm going to reserve judgement on it until I've had a good go at it. I'm just waiting a couple of days until things have calmed down a bit before I try and download it.

But yeah, looking at the vids that have been posted. It does look a bit arcady

 

[Obsidian Ant]

Oculus Rift footage during combat in Arena Commander:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Htoj7qNJRwg

 

[Neo-ST]

I do not agree with your comment. The reason why AC is so bad is not because of the existence of Alpha testing. In contrary. Now they see (or maybe not) that people don't like it and still can fix it. Without Alpha testing SC would almost result in what you got now in AC.

Same was the case for X Rebirth. Alpha/Beta tester already saw the flaws and hoped those would be fixed. They haven't been fixed.

Yes, but I think you missed my point.
In publisher model, alpha testing is done internally, behind the curtain. Later, you get more/less polished beta or final game.
Then you can bring your final conclusion whether you like it or not, but in crowdfunded model, everybody gets to play unpolished, buggy, early alpha then complain about every detail on the forums, etc. (which is OK because it helps developers steer the development of the game, but it's annoying).

The problem is that people start building this negative picture of a full game based solely upon their experience with the Alpha.
That's why we have so many complaining Betties

 

[Alric]

Wow... early days. But there's certainly a lot of work to be done there.

It may prove to be a good thing for both games, because they are going in pretty different directions by the look of it, in more ways than many thought. So between the two it should cover a lot of tastes.

 

[Aleksej]

Yes, but I think you missed my point.
In publisher model, alpha testing is done internally, behind the curtain. Later, you get more/less polished beta or final game.
Then you can bring your final conclusion whether you like it or not, but in crowdfunded model, everybody gets to play unpolished, buggy, early alpha then complain about every detail on the forums, etc. (which is OK because it helps developers steer the development of the game, but it's annoying).

The problem is that people start building this negative picture of a full game based solely upon their experience with the Alpha.
That's why we have so many complaining Betties

Unfortunately, the first impression about anything is the most important. It affects everything that follows. Also it shows the direction of the development and if the developers have the right idea or a wrong one.

ED Alpha 1 was received very positively with its great flight model. Yes, it is not very realistic but it makes playing the game - fun.

Unfortunately, CIG did not deliver AC as well. The flight model is very questionable. As well as they promised that the game won't feature flight controls similar to those that were implemented in Freelancer. However, when I started the game KB/M controls are almost exactly the same as in Freelance.

 

[GuruNot]

I am avoiding reading too many posts as I dont want too many spoilers. But it certainly is a hefty download @ 10GB. 2 Hours and 7.5GB to go.

 

[psyron]

Yes, but I think you missed my point.
In publisher model, alpha testing is done internally, behind the curtain. Later, you get more/less polished beta or final game.
Then you can bring your final conclusion whether you like it or not, but in crowdfunded model, everybody gets to play unpolished, buggy, early alpha then complain about every detail on the forums, etc. (which is OK because it helps developers steer the development of the game, but it's annoying).

The problem is that people start building this negative picture of a full game based solely upon their experience with the Alpha.
That's why we have so many complaining Betties

I got your point, still i don't think that it is the Alpha testing process which is to blame here. Look at ED for example, the Alpha was great and player already got the feeling in which direction the game is going for.
I simply do not believe that a final game can become something completely different from an Alpha. Simply impossible.

If the developers really thought that this Alpha isn't demonstrating the core of the flight gameplay they shouldn't have come up with it now.
Only RSI is to blame here.

 

[Neo-ST]

Unfortunately, the first impression about anything is the most important. It affects everything that follows. Also it shows the direction of the development and if the developers have the right idea or a wrong one.

ED Alpha 1 was received very positively with its great flight model. Yes, it is not very realistic but it makes playing the game - fun.

Unfortunately, CIG did not deliver AC as well. The flight model is very questionable. As well as they promised that the game won't feature flight controls similar to those that were implemented in Freelancer. However, when I started the game KB/M controls are almost exactly the same as in Freelance.

Yes, but the point is that there are 2 first impressions: Alpha (crowdfunded model) and final game (publisher model).
I don't think it's fair to put them in the same basket, as in crowdfunded model you get the privilege to play it in a state that otherwise you wouldn't be able to.

I got your point, still i don't think that it is the Alpha testing process which is to blame here. Look at ED for example, the Alpha was great and player already got the feeling in which direction the game is going for.
I simply do not believe that a final game can become something completely different from an Alpha. Simply impossible.

If the developers really thought that this Alpha isn't demonstrating the core of the flight gameplay they shouldn't have come up with it now.
Only RSI is to blame here.

I wouldn't jump into conclusions just yet. Whether the flight model can change or not is solely dependent upon RSI and capabilities of the engine, which is yet to be seen.

 

[Mr.Nowak]

While the Arena Commander storm is still on going. In the studio report of May there were some really nice screenshots released from non dogfighting locations.

Here they are.

Spoiler

 

[Mazhurg]

Well, in any case, CR has enough of my money for what is available. I'll play and enjoy the arcade game, but they don't need any more of my subscription money at this point unless things change drastically.

Just spent another hour of two and quite bored by now.... Back to ED

 

[Halada]

The control scheme in AC is a joke. KB+M will make joysticks completely obsolete. I am terribly saddened by this, but thoroughly impressed by Frontier now, who knocked it out of the park on their first try and with 10% of the funding CIG amassed.

I wish I had spent my Grand Admiral money on Frontier and what I spent with ED on CIG instead.

 

[Yaffle]

I'm curious - how is the soundscape?

There's been a lot of chat about visuals and gameplay but I've not seen sound mentioned.

 

[Bains]

Just a question for anyone with some experience of developing with cryengine/other engines.

Is there something about the crygenine the means it lends itself better to objects moving around on the ground rather than the capturing the feel of flight?

I ask this because I assume they've put in a lot of hours, yet I'm amazed at just how far short this seems to have fallen.

 

[Halada]

I'm curious - how is the soundscape?

There's been a lot of chat about visuals and gameplay but I've not seen sound mentioned.

My sound is bugged a lot, lazors make no sound at all.

 

[Tiggo]

I'm curious - how is the soundscape?

There's been a lot of chat about visuals and gameplay but I've not seen sound mentioned.

sound is nearly not existing. very dull and one dimensional. no engine sound.

music is pretty good though.

 

[Bains]

My sound is bugged a lot, lazors make no sound at all.

You're not missing out, the lasers plus voice warnings very quickly add up to headache.

 

[Tiggo]

Just a question for anyone with some experience of developing with cryengine/other engines.

Is there something about the crygenine the means it lends itself better to objects moving around on the ground rather than the capturing the feel of flight?

I ask this because I assume they've put in a lot of hours, yet I'm amazed at just how far short this seems to have fallen.

they are actually tricking the engine to believe the universe is water and the vessels are submarines. something like this.

cryengine was never made to simulate that kind of 3d movements.

 

[Yaffle]

sound is nearly not existing. very dull and one dimensional. no engine sound.

music is pretty good though.

Thanks (and to Halada).

 

[Jason S]

Naturally this thread is a tad bias to ED.

Yes the dog fighting does seem more arcadey, not really less realistic, because who is to say what is realistic centuries ahead, but definitely more arcadey. Although for all that, for what it is, it is good and many will like it when all the bugs are out and it is integrated into the whole game. This is a game that is going to be big.

The game will seem less arcadey when all the other elements are integrated like the planets, and walk about stations etc.

I still prefer ED, but SC is going to please a lot of people as well.

 

[Neo-ST]

I'm curious - how is the soundscape?

There's been a lot of chat about visuals and gameplay but I've not seen sound mentioned.

True sound effects are not in yet, AFAIK.

Just a question for anyone with some experience of developing with cryengine/other engines.

Is there something about the crygenine the means it lends itself better to objects moving around on the ground rather than the capturing the feel of flight?

I ask this because I assume they've put in a lot of hours, yet I'm amazed at just how far short this seems to have fallen.

I'm no developer, but everyone knows that Cryengine is FPS engine, not open-world flight sim engine.
CR chose Cryengine primarily because of "photorealistic" graphics and possibilities.
IMHO, Cryengine sucks at everything else except at that.
They needed to rewrite the netcode, convert it to 64bit floating points (or whatever it's called), mod it heavily with the help from Crytek engineers, etc.