This is simply ridiculus...
- Thread starter Eymerich
- Start date
The Courier build I used to take out on pirate killing missions had 1,110 armour and 536MJ of shields. Both are higher than a stock Anaconda, to give an idea of how tough that ship was.
Granted the npcs don't use builds as extreme as that in res sites (although some of the CZ ones seem to) but then he did have a pair of Vipers there too. Even if all three ships only had pulses in their hardpoints that's a combined DPS of 33 before you factor in damage reduction due to weapon size.
An Anaconda with a class 7A prismatic has 700MJ of shields. Despite having been asked, OP hasn't said whether he had any shield boosters equipped and if so how many, so I will assume he didn't. 700MJ of shields gone in 2 minutes at the hands of three ships - yeah not seeing any issue there at all really, OP must have done a good job at keeping their guns off him for chunks of that fight.
Edit: Oh and I read on and it seems at least one ofthem had rails equipped? Nothing to see here.
Last edited:
Its not about the credits vs credits.
Its about guns vs shields, and then guns vs armor.
Your shields lasted 2 minutes under fire from 11 weapons. Seems pretty good to me.
Also, ships do not scale linearly. The more expensive the ship, the less bang for buck you get.
'lol I can kill all small ships easily' --> Then: why ships have different cost?
It's a clear provocation.
But the reduced gap beetwen a 400 milions ship and 4-5 Milions ship is a very bad design of the game: non one, here, want the I win button (but wanna know something: I had damn damn fun with the prenerf Python!). Only a balance.
That usually never hurt.
--> using a conda at res/nav is fun, but may not be the best choice risk/reward wise. Agreed: best choice is a Volture (or a fas): everything else can go in the w.c. (great design here FD...)
At the end: I found myself playng with the usual ship:
Combat: Fas-Vulture- Clipper (no reason to upgrade to a Fdl)
Exp: Asp - Conda
Smuggler : Asp
Trade: Conda - Cutter - Python - t6 - Clipper
--- Just switched ship in the shipyard to take the values of the conda:
Shield : 1820 (prismatic 7 + 8 shield Booster)
Armor (useless in this case): 1665
Last edited:
Again: It's balance, or, to be completly fair, personal taste here.
To me: loosing almost all the shield of 400 milion ship under the fire of 2 low end ship and 1 medium ships is ridiculus.
In your opinion not.
Okay. To each it's own.
But I cloud manage better the battle if I attacked the viper first. Attacking the courier first was definitly a (mine) mistake
If ability scaled with price tag, by sleutelbos' math and your reckoning you should be able to take on 200 vipers with a even shot at victory. Thank goodness that's not how this game works or it would be a complete disaster. Ability-wise, top end ships are a poor investment, as there's nothing they can do that something that costs half the price can't (except trade perhaps), and only slightly better. You pay a real premium to be the biggest target dummy on the battlefield.
Get into a Viper mkIII and try the same scenario. Thats why. Besides that, the Conda is the best exploration vessel whereas the Viper is one of the worst. The Conda is the 2nd best in trading, the Viper is one of the worst. The Conda is also absolutely perfect for high-end mining, whereas the Viper is, you guessed it, one of the worst.
Thats why the Conda is more expensive.
I have been getting the impression that NPC wings are getting better lately. I know that if I go to a CompNav in my FAS I have to be real choosy about what wings I take on. Many times lately I have ended up high-waking with no shields, hull damage and canopy cracked after taking out two of the three and not able to get a "bead" on the third, whose rail gun or PA would have had my canopy next shot. Not long ago all I had to do was make sure I took out the biggest threat and then deal with the minnows but no more, it seems the minnows now have teeth and know how to manoeuvre. At this rate I don't think I'll advance from my 55% to Elite combat unless I take a very long time and get extremely choosy and try to stay patient (which is my normal failing).
Hmmm! that's a very strange comment. Did you know that the FDL has been buffed since 1.5/2.0? IMHO, it's the best Haz RES farmer by quite a margin.
Last edited:
This. Hate to compare, but EVE is no different in this regard. A battleship fitted with billions of credits in officer gear can happily take out any single ship smaller than it. A (PC) wing of three "Average" fit frigates at no more than a million credits each could happily take that down.
So, yes, it makes perfect sense that a wing of 3 ships totalling no more than probably 20-40m in equipment could take down a single ship worth 400m+
Last edited:
You're missing the point in cost vs firepower:
I spend 200 million on this
and you spend 2 million on this
It still hurts to get shot by it.
Your big Anaconda has far more weapon capacity and recharge, bigger guns and way more dps, bigger shields and better armor.
This increased survivability and damage potential showed in you surviving and defeating multiple smaller opponents.
That doesn't even consider all the other bang you get for your buck. Increased jump range and max range, much greater cargo potential, + everything else a multi-role like the Annie can do better than most everything else.
I spend 200 million on this
and you spend 2 million on this
It still hurts to get shot by it.
Your big Anaconda has far more weapon capacity and recharge, bigger guns and way more dps, bigger shields and better armor.
This increased survivability and damage potential showed in you surviving and defeating multiple smaller opponents.
That doesn't even consider all the other bang you get for your buck. Increased jump range and max range, much greater cargo potential, + everything else a multi-role like the Annie can do better than most everything else.
Last edited:
I gave the furrylance a second chance this week, having read that it was now much improved. I must admit it was nice to be able to fire a SCB without frying and of course the speed and manoeuvrability was great but to be honest, after the FAS it just didn't feel as good. Maybe I could have given it a longer try but I think the medium hardpoints don't suit my poor combat skills, I am too rubbish to be trusted with loads of railguns and PAs and the single huge hardpoint doesn't make up for my lack of skill. It certainly didn't feel like it was worth the cost of two and a half FAS.
No, I disagree, balance cost have to be exponential so that new players in small ships can stand a chance against NPC and veteran players in big ships can still face a bit of challenge.
I think that everyone here agreed the fact that a Conda shouldn't take out 200 viper easly.
But: this wasn't in 1.2. Things get changed.
Anyway, consider this:
(Pve) 1 Vs 1 Conda = 45/50 sec to kill it
1 Vs 1 wing of three = 2 minutes and almost all shield dropped.
Here we aren't talking about 200 vipers: it's 3 versus 1.
Things are very different.
In any case, that's how the game is became: I dislike it.
It's simple unbalanced: a ship whose cost is almost 80 times the price of another should not be defeated so easy by a wing of three.
Game design: in my humble opinion, bad bad game design.
- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -
There is no reason to purchase big ships.
There is no improvment and no more sense of progression.
If this is what elite has became, then it doesn't anymore appeal to me.
Because of a simple reason: I wanna have fun and having the shield destoyed and wait 3\5 minutes to recharge it it's simply... unfun.
I know I know: in a Bi weave generator things would be different but I let's not tallk about this here...
- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -
Elite Unbalanced.
Nuff Said
- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -
I have no reason to build a ship:
of 29 ships I can use:
- vulture fas clipper and fdl.
No reason to use other ships.
Great design here...
Did you die? NO
Did your ship get damaged? NO
Did your ship cost 80 times as much? Yes
Does that make your ship 80 times better than 3 fully kitted out smaller ships? No, & if it did I'd bet you would be the first to complain about the lack of challenge in the game once you get bored of shooting fish in a barrel.
The whole point is that the NPC's are there to provide a challenge to you & that is exactly what they did you can't complain about that. Just finish them off & back away for a bit with full pips to shields to allow them to charge before you go in again.
Oh, and one more thing, piloting skill does not increase with the amount of money spent on your ship...
Did your ship get damaged? NO
Did your ship cost 80 times as much? Yes
Does that make your ship 80 times better than 3 fully kitted out smaller ships? No, & if it did I'd bet you would be the first to complain about the lack of challenge in the game once you get bored of shooting fish in a barrel.
The whole point is that the NPC's are there to provide a challenge to you & that is exactly what they did you can't complain about that. Just finish them off & back away for a bit with full pips to shields to allow them to charge before you go in again.
Oh, and one more thing, piloting skill does not increase with the amount of money spent on your ship...
Last edited:
Deleted member 38366
D
It's IMHO fairly easy : Time under Fire.
A Conda jousting vs. a small Target takes it time - to regain the firing Solution.
During that time, all the others keep firing all the time. Death by a thousand needles.
So every 180-pass that this Courier managed did cost you time, and in the end it all adds up.
Higher Ranked NPCs also run different Equipment. Don't exactly want to say they cheat - but at times it clearly feels so. We know they do stuff a Player physically can't using the normal Game mechanics.
(see ELITE Vultures Shield-Tanking a Player Gunship and a FAS - all @ 4 Pips WPN and giving that Vulture NPC all they got, same for most ELITE NPCs... it just feels they're using 6 Pips SYS or run Military A++ Shield Generators or something)
IMHO that used to be somewhat different (V1.2/V1.3 era). The last NPC buff IMHO enabled some of these "abilities" for them ; including firing off SCBs despite having none fitted in the 1st place
I've also taken my Conda into Conflict Zones etc. for kicks, in full kit.
And I do remember in the past, the Ship typically felt nearly invincible. I could even sit there all Turrets & set to Fire at Will just for fun.
Nowadays? Not so much.
A Conda jousting vs. a small Target takes it time - to regain the firing Solution.
During that time, all the others keep firing all the time. Death by a thousand needles.
So every 180-pass that this Courier managed did cost you time, and in the end it all adds up.
Higher Ranked NPCs also run different Equipment. Don't exactly want to say they cheat - but at times it clearly feels so. We know they do stuff a Player physically can't using the normal Game mechanics.
(see ELITE Vultures Shield-Tanking a Player Gunship and a FAS - all @ 4 Pips WPN and giving that Vulture NPC all they got, same for most ELITE NPCs... it just feels they're using 6 Pips SYS or run Military A++ Shield Generators or something)
IMHO that used to be somewhat different (V1.2/V1.3 era). The last NPC buff IMHO enabled some of these "abilities" for them ; including firing off SCBs despite having none fitted in the 1st place
I've also taken my Conda into Conflict Zones etc. for kicks, in full kit.
And I do remember in the past, the Ship typically felt nearly invincible. I could even sit there all Turrets & set to Fire at Will just for fun.
Nowadays? Not so much.
Last edited by a moderator:
8 pulse laser setup? Install some multicannons or cannons and those little high ranked ships will go down faster. Greed got you in the end.
- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -
8 pulse laser setup? Install some multicannons or cannons and those little high ranked ships will go down faster. Greed got you in the end.
- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -
8 pulse laser setup? Install some multicannons or cannons and those little high ranked ships will go down faster. Greed got you in the end.