Those of you with multiple accounts - "Non helm MultiCrew players now provide an additional single power distribution pip"

[TERMINATRIXXX]

And I dare say once Scorpio is out a lot of Xbox players at pick one up and have an additional console too. Like many PS4 players who had an original bought a Pro, and just kept the original.

If i'm playing solo anyway, then "free pips" does seem kind of silly. But yes, this is probably edge cases for most, it's the highly competitive PvPers that will most likely think cheap PC accounts are worth it. Wait for a sale, BAM, two free pips.

If you have 3 friends and normally fly in a wing of 4, everyone buys 2 extra accounts, you now have a non-Wing of 4+12 ghost accounts. Everyone gets more firepower, giving an advantage fighting a regular wing of 4+0.

This is the masterplan

 

[Jesters09]

Doh! Good point...

None the less, there are people with multiple accounts (who might have used them in tandem eg to transfer cargo) who can at least currently comment on the logistics of running two CMDRs at once? Can it easily be done on one machine for example? Or does it require two?

ps: I've got friend who's long since stopped playing. I'll see if I can "borrow" his account (when this goes live) for a free extra pip...

There were a couple of events well over a year ago or so when I flew 3 accounts at the same time.
I ran 2 accounts on my PC (ALT TAB) and the third on my wife's (sits right next to mine on the same workstation).
My wife's PC had an identical setup, so all controls and key sets were the same.

One account was my Sons the other my Daughters and I did it to help them out with some cash.
It was one of those lugging CG's and as long as I staggered the timings, it was reasonably easy.
All was manageable until one, two or all three ships got interdicted, then the workload went beyond any normal human capabilities to pilot them


Not long after that, there was a season update which prevented the game running on the same PC more than once.
I know there are ways around this, but my daughter lost interest very quickly and my Son gained enough cash to not need my help any more, so I haven't bothered doing.

I now have three accounts, I bought a second for myself because I like doing restarts without deleting my first CMDR and I now have my Daughters as a third.
Only my first account has access to beta and only my first has Horizons.
My Son still plays on his account and has Horizons, but no beta.

So I can't help with an up to date test.

I can imagine if Horizons came on sale, I'd be tempted to upgrade my second account for an extra pip.
From what I could figure from the Live stream, you only get one extra pip for a fully crewed ship, not one extra pip per extra CMDR, but not 100% sure.

 

[AutoMechancal]

I thought that FD had stated that you can EITHER wing OR Multi-crew. Not both?

It's very easy to get into a wing fight without being in a wing when you are friends with one or both wings.

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

well how would someone properly control th ship and fire the turrets to benefit from such multiaccounting? that would indeed require 2 pc's and screens and then the ability to fly and shoot with 2 different input controls. But generally the issue stays that 1 pip is just a lot of extra energy especially on some ships. and it could make beams extremely powerful because when turrets aren't controlled by derp AI anymore and get engineered for heat dissipation this can cause some serious new level of infinity beam madness.

 

[NeilF]

well how would someone properly control th ship and fire the turrets to benefit from such multiaccounting? that would indeed require 2 pc's and screens and then the ability to fly and shoot with 2 different input controls. But generally the issue stays that 1 pip is just a lot of extra energy especially on some ships. and it could make beams extremely powerful because when turrets aren't controlled by derp AI anymore and get engineered for heat dissipation this can cause some serious new level of infinity beam madness.

You're missing the point... Your secondary account would sit in your primary account's ship, doing nothing... They'd:-
a) Give you an extra pip of energy.
b) Get free CRs for bounties etc.

Can someone confirm if you sit two additional crew (accounts) in your ship, you get TWO EXTRA PIPs?



So the important question is, is how hard/easy is it to run a second (and third?) account just to login and sign up to crew and then leave them (doing nothing)?

- - - Updated - - -

There were a couple of events well over a year ago or so when I flew 3 accounts at the same time.
I ran 2 accounts on my PC (ALT TAB) and the third on my wife's (sits right next to mine on the same workstation).
My wife's PC had an identical setup, so all controls and key sets were the same.

One account was my Sons the other my Daughters and I did it to help them out with some cash.
It was one of those lugging CG's and as long as I staggered the timings, it was reasonably easy.
All was manageable until one, two or all three ships got interdicted, then the workload went beyond any normal human capabilities to pilot them


Not long after that, there was a season update which prevented the game running on the same PC more than once.
I know there are ways around this, but my daughter lost interest very quickly and my Son gained enough cash to not need my help any more, so I haven't bothered doing.

I now have three accounts, I bought a second for myself because I like doing restarts without deleting my first CMDR and I now have my Daughters as a third.
Only my first account has access to beta and only my first has Horizons.
My Son still plays on his account and has Horizons, but no beta.

So I can't help with an up to date test.

I can imagine if Horizons came on sale, I'd be tempted to upgrade my second account for an extra pip.
From what I could figure from the Live stream, you only get one extra pip for a fully crewed ship, not one extra pip per extra CMDR, but not 100% sure.

Thanks for the info...

So from what you know, if you wanted to run 2-3 accounts (so you could log them as crew on your main account's ship) could you do that fairly easily on a single PC? Or would you have to switch between user accounts on that single PC (each account running an ED)? Or would you infact need multiple PCs?

 

[gary.brain]

They could look at....

So the PiP for this character is only active when the turret is active ( i.e. player has control of the turret ) = One less weapon for 1 PiP ( reward is like Wings , you must get a hit on the ship ).

2nd Player PiP is only active when the ship is launched and active.

This way you could at least overcome some of it possibly!!!

 

[Vorxian]

Sounds like a complete and utter hack.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

They could look at....

So the PiP for this character is only active when the turret is active ( i.e. player has control of the turret ) = One less weapon for 1 PiP ( reward is like Wings , you must get a hit on the ship ).

2nd Player PiP is only active when the ship is launched and active.

This way you could at least overcome some of it possibly!!!

Something along these lines could work; only get the pips if 'active' in the role, no pip for being just sat in the chair.

 

[NeilF]

They could look at....

So the PiP for this character is only active when the turret is active ( i.e. player has control of the turret ) = One less weapon for 1 PiP ( reward is like Wings , you must get a hit on the ship ).

2nd Player PiP is only active when the ship is launched and active.

This way you could at least overcome some of it possibly!!!

If there were some simple IFs - and yours certainly seem fairly black and white - then that sounds like a good logical compromise to me!

I've added your suggestion to the OP as it seems very logical

So the suggestion is:-
- if the gunner is not assigned a turret, his pip is not active.
- if the SLF is not flying, his pip is not active.

In this way, idle/unused CMDRs in those positions would not add extra pips!

ps: Why should the SLF fighter pilot/position even get an extra pip for the ship?

As you can see... I've also asked why should the SLF CMDR get to allocate yet another pip? WHY?

 

[Martian Successor]

I think we can say goodbye to the notion of fair and balanced PvP in this game if this pay 2 exploit garbage goes live. It's like FD thought, "Hmm. Open isn't dead enough. Lets dig up its grave and kick it in the crotch." [up]

 

[Martian Successor]

I thought that FD had stated that you can EITHER wing OR Multi-crew. Not both?

You don't need wings to get 4 corvettes loaded up with credit card powerered alt accounts to be in the same instance.

The only 'balancing' that will possibly be countering this new pay 2 exploit feature will be the wonkiness of the P2P instancing. Wow... I don't think I've ever seen a developer code in a psuedo hack into their own game and then rely solely on the crappiness of their P2P network to deal with the inevitable, easily foreseen, PvP balancing cluster truck.

 

[mindfaQ]

So the complaint is that a single person can get two extra pips, just like every regular person with friends could? I don't see the problem, as long as the multi crews will be recognizable and can't form wings.

 

[NeilF]

So the complaint is that a single person can get two extra pips, just like every regular person with friends could? I don't see the problem, as long as the multi crews will be recognizable and can't form wings.

Well, there are the underlying questions:-
1) Why should multi-crew even get extra pips?
2) OK the gunner "earns" an extra pip, but why should the SLF crew member get an extra pip?


And all that aside, if the roles are not being used (the gunner has no turrets and the fighter pilot is sitting there doing nothing) - basically what this thread is raising - should the extra pips be applicable? See the OP now for "gary.brain's" rather logical/simple suggestion

 

[Truesilver]

I thought that FD had stated that you can EITHER wing OR Multi-crew. Not both?

I was confused about that, and I've been told it's one or the other, which is a real shame. ie: If you have four of you why not two of you each in two ships!?

It's very easy to get into a wing fight without being in a wing when you are friends with one or both wings.

Yeah, to clarify we're not suggesting that someone could both be in a wing of 4 and at the same time have buddies or socks giving him extra pips.

The concern is that there are a variety of situations in which a player group member can either join a wing v wing fight, or already be in one and (technically) leave the wing. Using the latter example at that moment he could then bring in his sock accounts.

To take an extreme example you could be in a 4v4 when one of the wings disbands and brings in pay2win pips to all their ships. So it's still even numbers of ships, but no longer even numbers of pips.

I know at some point someone may say, "Well, just refuse to fight those cheese-mongers" but not all Open PvP is consensual arena mode. Some player groups actually try to hold or protect territory, or (eg) attack other Powerplay HQ's. Ceding the field of combat to the enemy is not an answer in those circumstances. It's just defeat and loss of control of something players may have worked for over years.

 

[Jex =TE=]

^^Two immediate problems.

Having said all that, if it makes it into the main game, how is it an exploit?

A multi-crewed ship can't be winged. Presumably we'll be able to see that (e.g.) an FAS is multi-crewed and know that it will have 7 pips not 6 pips.

Nobody could be more critical of how RNGineering etc has already unbalanced PvP than I am ... and yes this is hardly desirable ... but I just don't see what's unfair about it. How is it unfair to me if one guy plus his buddy attack me with their FAS, or one guy plus his sock account attack me with their FAS? Why is the former fair but the latter unfair?

If anything, I think people should be allowed to pay creds for NPC crew (and extra pips) and be done with it.

____________________

EDIT: Since I posted as above it has been pointed out in this thread by Cmdr Automechanical that the issue in question is ripe for abuse in wing fights. Basically wings in combat in normal space could anchor in big ships who then cheese in sock accounts to add 2 pips to their big ships. I accept that this would be game-breaking and completely exploitative. Any advantage of that kind is capable of turning a wing fight ... in this case in the wrong direction.

The answer is simple.

Get rid of the extra cheating pip or explain where this magical extra power comes from.

Games that have no direction and really bad game play mechanics (MC) rely on magic potions to make them look better than they are.

 

[masCh]

I don't quite understand the issue.

1) Don't you need multiple PCs to run multicrew?

2) Don't you need to sacrifice a turreted weapon slot to gain an extra pip?

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

You're missing the point... Your secondary account would sit in your primary account's ship, doing nothing... They'd:-
a) Give you an extra pip of energy.
b) Get free CRs for bounties etc.

Can someone confirm if you sit two additional crew (accounts) in your ship, you get TWO EXTRA PIPs?



So the important question is, is how hard/easy is it to run a second (and third?) account just to login and sign up to crew and then leave them (doing nothing)?

- - - Updated - - -



Thanks for the info...

So from what you know, if you wanted to run 2-3 accounts (so you could log them as crew on your main account's ship) could you do that fairly easily on a single PC? Or would you have to switch between user accounts on that single PC (each account running an ED)? Or would you infact need multiple PCs?

do we get the extra pips for just sitting in the ship? I thought that would only happen if the turrets are manned.
also whats the extra CR worth on a secondary account? we can't trade cr at all, unless you wnt to make some inconvinient commody trade thing.

 

[Jex =TE=]

The issue comes from people like myself who have access to secondary accounts and can follow friends that are in wings into a fight. You of all people should know how the balance of a fight can change. For someone to be able to bring a big ship capable of an extreme damage build that only works with 4 pips to weapons with out the downsides of having less pips elsewhere is incredibly short sighted.

This will do nothing but mean that big ships pilots will have to buy secondary accounts or lose to the guy that did. It's literally paying for extra power in this form. I'm hoping that they can have an inactivity auto kick function so that you can't just have sock puppets doing nothing, but we'll see I guess.

What's blatantly obvious to most people here, FDev can't see. Sock puppets will use macros or some other way of getting around it but they won't have to. FD don't code in things they didn't think about so now not only do you need to grind in the wheel of fortune but you'll need more accounts to compete in PVP.

Why did they even allow this? Magic powers in ships now? What can we expect next!

 

[NeilF]

I don't quite understand the issue.

1) Don't you need multiple PCs to run multicrew?

2) Don't you need to sacrifice a turreted weapon slot to gain an extra pip?

1) This is what I'm trying to work out, ideally by someone with experience letting me/us know You may simply be able to create a second account on your PC for example, switch over to it, run (another) ED (in a tiny window), sign into your other account and join your primary accounts crew. Done... Switch back to your main account and play with an extra pip...

2) I don't believe so? I believe you can simply put a CMDR in the gunner seat doing nothing... and another in the SLF seat doing nothing... and get extra pips... This is why GaryBRain's suggestion now in the OP make so much sense! The question is, would FD implement it to make additional/secondary account purchase just for extra pips pointless?

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Well, consider if you have a 4-0-2 setup for power when under fire... Another CMDR in the same situation could have 4-0-3 or 4-0-4... 50 to 100% more weapon power!


So the question is, how viable/easy is this to achieve? So I'm hoping can try and feedback!

4-0-4 setup compared to 4-0-2 setup is a 50% increase - not 100%. Get your math straight.