To Solo Play Players: If You Could Disable PVP, Would You Play in Open Play Mode Instead?

[TobiasFuzz]

That's not true, combat is affected pretty much the same way. For example, it's possible to build an absolutely minmaxed shieldtank combat ship full of GSRPs and enjoy your 10k+ MJ shield - until you happen to get shot at by phasing weapons or reverb cascade.

You cannot seriously say that this is the right way to haul cargo and anything else is "gimping' your ship:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znqv1c1dL0w

The problem is not that you need to use more reasonable builds in Open, it's that NPCs are so weak that these braindead builds are viable in Solo.
For comparison, my Cutter can "only" haul 720 tons of cargo, but it still has 4k+ MJs of shields and it definitely cannot be destroyed by 3 PA volleys.

Unrelated to bad design by FDev... Can you give me a reason why someone should haul cargo at a CG in open in a tradeship with 50% of the possible cargo space and have to restart the run from the star multiple times after high-wake in comparison to use 100% cargospace and don't be interrupted in solo?

I am surely not a "play solo" advocate, but I can understand why some people stay in solo when aiming for the higher participant levels.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Unrelated to bad design by FDev... Can you give me a reason why someone should haul cargo at a CG in open in a tradeship with 50% of the possible cargo space and have to restart the run from the star multiple times after high-wake in comparison to use 100% cargospace and don't be interrupted in solo?

I am surely not a "play solo" advocate, but I can understand why some people stay in solo when aiming for the higher participant levels.

Likewise even standard trade run, mining runs, and so on, why do them at open if you just measure efficiency. Open is just for showing "look what nice stuff I have".

 

[Bigmaec]

Unrelated to bad design by FDev... Can you give me a reason why someone should haul cargo at a CG in open in a tradeship with 50% of the possible cargo space and have to restart the run from the star multiple times after high-wake in comparison to use 100% cargospace and don't be interrupted in solo?

I am surely not a "play solo" advocate, but I can understand why some people stay in solo when aiming for the higher participant levels.

720 compared to 794 is now 50%?

You don't lose that much cargo in a Cutter, and I can assure you you have bigger problems in CGs in open than gankers (pad blocking, traffic, loading times etc.)

The absurdity of the above video is telling.

 

[Robert Maynard]

The absurdity of the above video is telling.

The complete lack of risk & challenge to the attacker is also obvious.

 

[TobiasFuzz]

720 compared to 794 is now 50%?

You don't lose that much cargo in a Cutter, and I can assure you you have bigger problems in CGs in open than gankers (pad blocking, traffic, loading times etc.)

The absurdity of the above video is telling.

I don't speak about cutters or other high-end stuff that all you heros have. I tested lots of builds for different players and skill levels against gankers. The (in MY experience and MY opinion) most reliable shipbuilds that let you survive ganks even when you are a below medium skilled player is a conda with 240 tons cargospace or T9 with around 400 to 500 tons cargo space depending on the engineering level access.

 

[Bigmaec]

The complete lack of risk & challenge to the attacker is also obvious.

You could at least admit that flying a Cutter with guardian SRPs and shield boosters without a shield generator in open is pretty absurd, but no, of course not

 

[TiberiusDuval]

You could at least admit that flying a Cutter with guardian SRPs and shield boosters without a shield generator in open is pretty absurd, but no, of course not

Well that IS pretty odd idea Somebody stuffed all kinds of modules to Cutter without thinking?

 

[Brrokk]

Affiliating a Squadron with a Faction doesn't give the Squadron any such abilities. All players affect the BGS and can affect the influence of Factions in a system, which may result in station ownership changing from one Faction to another - that does not require any player to be a member of a Squadron.

Blockades don't work, in this game, because players can travel in any game mode. Players can role-play blockades if they wish, of course.

I'd prefer to say that blockades don't work because the game is realistic enough to use 1:1 scale, and solar systems are mind-bogglingly huge.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

I don't speak about cutters or other high-end stuff that all you heros have. I tested lots of builds for different players and skill levels against gankers. The (in MY experience and MY opinion) most reliable shipbuilds that let you survive ganks even when you are a below medium skilled player is a conda with 240 tons cargospace or T9 with around 400 to 500 tons cargo space depending on the engineering level access.

FWIW my T9 in which I reliably achieved 10 % finishes in numerous CGs was 708tonnes cargo, admittedly with a fair level of engineering.
The T9 has never been sent to the rebuy screen.
However the biggest factor isn't escaping from an instance after I was interdicted, (though that certainly happened often enough) but avoiding getting interdicted in the first place which isn't affected by engineering at all rather relying upon situational awareness.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

I'd prefer to say that blockades don't work because the game is realistic enough to use 1:1 scale, and solar systems are mind-bogglingly huge.

Problem with that is that systems have 2 bottlenecks at the star and the station.

 

[TobiasFuzz]

FWIW my T9 in which I reliably achieved 10 % finishes in numerous CGs was 708tonnes cargo, admittedly with a fair level of engineering.
The T9 has never been sent to the rebuy screen.
However the biggest factor isn't escaping from an instance after I was interdicted, (though that certainly happened often enough) but avoiding getting interdicted in the first place which isn't affected by engineering at all rather relying upon situational awareness.

Situational awareness is a good thing, no doubt. Perhaps you have some advise for me...
Ganker waiting at the star: escaping as fast as possible in random direction and hoping that his Interdictor is not highly enginnered. Sometimes they get bored by following you for minutes and turn of. If they keep chasing your only chance is an emergency drop out SC and hoping to hit station (very difficult in my experience).

Ganker circling around target station: Try to get as close as possible before getting interdicted and low wake yourself step by step closer to target station until reached.

Of course sometimes it's just luck cause the gankers are busy with someone else.

What do you do to use situational awareness to your advantage?

 

[galahad2069]

Well that IS pretty odd idea Somebody stuffed all kinds of modules to Cutter without thinking?

No, I think he was just fed up with boring A to B hauling and threw out his shield generator before the last run in order to squeeze out just a little bit more cargo space so that he could call it a day. Most probably he absolutely knew the risk but did not care, took his chance and lost, shrugged and sucked up the rebuy. At least he certainly did not flood the system chat with salty messages and never came to the forums to cry about it.

All that hassle for a couple of double engineered FSDs we couldn't even lay our hands on to this very day BTW.

 

[Morbad]

Unrelated to bad design by FDev... Can you give me a reason why someone should haul cargo at a CG in open in a tradeship with 50% of the possible cargo space and have to restart the run from the star multiple times after high-wake in comparison to use 100% cargospace and don't be interrupted in solo?

There is no statistically pragmatic reason to haul in Open because of bad design by FDev.

CGs should be universally dangerous because they are prominently advertised objectives that should rightly have stiff opposition. In terms of raw numbers it's universally better to do them in Solo because the PvE game is utterly incapable of doing justice to that opposition and has irrational/implausible reactions to player behavior (like pad hogging, or fighting in vicinity of a starport, for example). Multiplayer instancing is also riddled with network issues.

Ideally, the networking would work well enough, and NPC foes be competent enough, that there would either be no practical difference between Open and Solo, or Solo would be the more difficult mode because cooperation would actually be useful in Open.

Blockades don't work, in this game, because players can travel in any game mode.

It would be more correct to say that a blockade can never stop all traffic, not that they categorically don't work. A cloth mask is still better than no mask.

If there are people hauling cargo in Open, they can be delayed, redirected, or shot down, by a blockade, and this will reduce the rate at which that cargo is delivered. You can't seal off an area, but you can still have some impact without turning it into a competition of milk runs in Solo....cause if I'm forced to do milk runs in Solo to contribute, I'm not going to contribute at all because it won't be any fun. My CMDR may act with pure pragmatism within the context of the setting he exists in, but I as a player, I am also pragmatic in pursuing my goal of entertainment, which is very distinct from my CMDR's goals.

The complete lack of risk & challenge to the attacker is also obvious.

Which is a rational goal for the attacker and something to avoid for the defender. If one looks like the weakest target around, for any reason other than one was trying to bait an attack, that's a blunder on the defender's part.

The goal of a blockade, of commerce rading, of interdiction patrols, is to stop targets, not give them a fighting chance. A fighting chance is something that one has to take.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

Situational awareness is a good thing, no doubt. Perhaps you have some advise for me...
Ganker waiting at the star: escaping as fast as possible in random direction and hoping that his Interdictor is not highly enginnered. Sometimes they get bored by following you for minutes and turn of. If they keep chasing your only chance is an emergency drop out SC and hoping to hit station (very difficult in my experience).

Ganker circling around target station: Try to get as close as possible before getting interdicted and low wake yourself step by step closer to target station until reached.

Of course sometimes it's just luck cause the gankers are busy with someone else.

What do you do to use situational awareness to your advantage?

Before you jump to the star "Is this a popular system?" If yes switch on all shield boosters and put 4 pips to systems.
Left hand panel should be in Contacts Right hand panel should be in modules with thrusters highlighted.
When you jump in take a second to scan for hollow contacts, if yes check left panel with FDLs or similar ships checked first.
Do not attempt to flee in a random direction you'll put them directly on your six and get pulled.
Have your tail pointed to the star and sit at minimum velocity to prevent them getting to a position to interdict. If required high wake out of system to change mode / block before returning. Alternatively go to right panel and deactivate thrusters. This performs a wakeless drop and gives you the same options.

Approaching the station you can use SCA to come in at high speed, SCA will drop you at the destination at any speed below 1c.

 

[TobiasFuzz]

Before you jump to the star "Is this a popular system?" If yes switch on all shield boosters and put 4 pips to systems.
Left hand panel should be in Contacts Right hand panel should be in modules with thrusters highlighted.
When you jump in take a second to scan for hollow contacts, if yes check left panel with FDLs or similar ships checked first.
Do not attempt to flee in a random direction you'll put them directly on your six and get pulled.
Have your tail pointed to the star and sit at minimum velocity to prevent them getting to a position to interdict. If required high wake out of system to change mode / block before returning. Alternatively go to right panel and deactivate thrusters. This performs a wakeless drop and gives you the same options.

Approaching the station you can use SCA to come in at high speed, SCA will drop you at the destination at any speed below 1c.

First, thank you for sharing. It is always interesting to learn how players do things. Most of your things are hopefully common knowledge and should be followed by other players. The problem for me is

• I don't change mode or block (my fault)
• I don't use SCA (need the space for other things)

But you never stop learning. I didn't know that deactivating thrusters creates a wakeless drop

 

[Cmdr Kellett781]

Case in point…. I occasionally find my self accidentally or by system necessity, shunted over to “open” servers. Generally I barely notice. Then I do notice… because for some unknown reason I can fathom, there is a “commander “ yo-yoing back in front of the mail slot.

Now… we know this individual is up to zero anything to do with the game and is just there to make game difficult for other players. Why bother with it??

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Case in point…. I occasionally find my self accidentally or by system necessity, shunted over to “open” servers. Generally I barely notice. Then I do notice… because for some unknown reason I can fathom, there is a “commander “ yo-yoing back in front of the mail slot.

Now… we know this individual is up to zero anything to do with the game and is just there to make game difficult for other players. Why bother with it??

That yo-yo stuff seems to me be network problem...

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Probably said commander just sits there blocking the access. Yo-yo effect is rubberbanding. Nevertheless blocking said types makes game better to you and all who have instanced with you.

 

[Cmdr Kellett781]

That yo-yo stuff seems to me be network problem...

No, I watched for a bit, they were changing their angle, moving around. Just logged out, went to private and docked.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

There is no statistically pragmatic reason to haul in Open because of bad design by FDev.

CGs should be universally dangerous because they are prominently advertised objectives that should rightly have stiff opposition. In terms of raw numbers it's universally better to do them in Solo because the PvE game is utterly incapable of doing justice to that opposition and has irrational/implausible reactions to player behavior (like pad hogging, or fighting in vicinity of a starport, for example). Multiplayer instancing is also riddled with network issues.

Ideally, the networking would work well enough, and NPC foes be competent enough, that there would either be no practical difference between Open and Solo, or Solo would be the more difficult mode because cooperation would actually be useful in Open.



It would be more correct to say that a blockade can never stop all traffic, not that they categorically don't work. A cloth mask is still better than no mask.

If there are people hauling cargo in Open, they can be delayed, redirected, or shot down, by a blockade, and this will reduce the rate at which that cargo is delivered. You can't seal off an area, but you can still have some impact without turning it into a competition of milk runs in Solo....cause if I'm forced to do milk runs in Solo to contribute, I'm not going to contribute at all because it won't be any fun. My CMDR may act with pure pragmatism within the context of the setting he exists in, but I as a player, I am also pragmatic in pursuing my goal of entertainment, which is very distinct from my CMDR's goals.



Which is a rational goal for the attacker and something to avoid for the defender. If one looks like the weakest target around, for any reason other than one was trying to bait an attack, that's a blunder on the defender's part.

The goal of a blockade, of commerce rading, of interdiction patrols, is to stop targets, not give them a fighting chance. A fighting chance is something that one has to take.

I enjoyed reading system chat during the baby shower and Salvation CGs. With the campers complaining about sitting around the star for hours staring at each other.
I do hope there will be more like that.