To Solo Play Players: If You Could Disable PVP, Would You Play in Open Play Mode Instead?

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
It would be more correct to say that a blockade can never stop all traffic, not that they categorically don't work. A cloth mask is still better than no mask.

If there are people hauling cargo in Open, they can be delayed, redirected, or shot down, by a blockade, and this will reduce the rate at which that cargo is delivered. You can't seal off an area, but you can still have some impact without turning it into a competition of milk runs in Solo....cause if I'm forced to do milk runs in Solo to contribute, I'm not going to contribute at all because it won't be any fun. My CMDR may act with pure pragmatism within the context of the setting he exists in, but I as a player, I am also pragmatic in pursuing my goal of entertainment, which is very distinct from my CMDR's goals.
As previously noted, players can roleplay a blockade, if they want to - however the presence of a blockade in Open is meaningless to players in the other two game modes.
Which is a rational goal for the attacker and something to avoid for the defender. If one looks like the weakest target around, for any reason other than one was trying to bait an attack, that's a blunder on the defender's part.

The goal of a blockade, of commerce rading, of interdiction patrols, is to stop targets, not give them a fighting chance. A fighting chance is something that one has to take.
True.
 
Case in point…. I occasionally find my self accidentally or by system necessity, shunted over to “open” servers.

There do appear to be occasional instancing issues where people in Solo are paired with others, but there aren't separate servers for Open. There aren't even servers for instances, other than the clients themselves.

Nevertheless blocking said types makes game better to you and all who have instanced with you.

It doesn't make the game better for me. If someone wants to make a run at my CMDR's ship at the letterbox, that's something I should be able to experience without anyone's instancing interference.

As previously noted, players can roleplay a blockade, if they want to - however the presence of a blockade in Open is meaningless to players in the other two game modes.

The presence of players in other game modes is only indirectly perceptible in either direction. In the same mode, barring serious network issues (including any attempts to interfere with the instancing of others), that blockade is an actual tactical concern, whether someone is deliberately roleplaying it or not.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
The presence of players in other game modes is only indirectly perceptible in either direction. In the same mode, barring serious network issues (including any attempts to interfere with the instancing of others), that blockade is an actual tactical concern, whether someone is deliberately roleplaying it or not.
Of course - however once each player encounters the blockade they can decide whether to "play along", or not, regardless of what the blockaders might wish they would do.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
The very point of this thread is to remove such a risk (basically the only kind of risk in existence) from Open, which would be beyond stupid.
Not from the whole of Open - as not all players would set a PvP-flag to "off".

.... and other players are not "the only of risk in existence", for those who don't fly meta-engineered combat ships anyway....
 
Not from the whole of Open - as not all players would set a PvP-flag to "off".
Even if there is only 1 invulnerable ship in Open, that's already 1 too many.

.... and other players are not "the only of risk in existence", for those who don't fly meta-engineered combat ships anyway....
But they are. NPC's are not a risk for any of my ships, including the Orca, the shieldless Viper and the mining cannot-recall-what-kind-of-snake-it-is-atm.
NPC's are only a threat to newbies and being a newbie is just a temporary thing.
 
Last edited:

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Even if there is only 1 invulnerable ship in Open, that's already 1 too much.
Understandable - for one who prefers PvP. I'd not be in favour of players with different PvP-flag settings instancing together - I'd prefer to see the state of the PvP-flag being the second strongest factor in the matchmaking system (after game mode choice).
But they are. NPC's are not a risk for any of my ships, including the Orca, the shieldless Viper and the mining cannot-recall-what-kind-of-snake-it-is-atm.
NPC's are only a threat to newbies and being a newbie is just a temporary thing.
For some players, certainly - not for all players - as not all players choose to PvP-harden their ships. Similarly, not all players attain the same skill level over time - so experience in the game does not necessarily mean that NPCs pose no risk to a player.
 
For some players, certainly - not for all players - as not all players choose to PvP-harden their ships. Similarly, not all players attain the same skill level over time - so experience in the game does not necessarily mean that NPCs pose no risk to a player.
You absolutely don't need to PvP-harden your ship for NPCs to not pose a real threat. All you need is a little bit of experience. My 10 year old daughter could farm NPCs and her ship was anything but PvP-hardened.
 
It doesn't make the game better for me. If someone wants to make a run at my CMDR's ship at the letterbox, that's something I should be able to experience without anyone's instancing interference.
You know letterbox trolling is just the way to either hinder others gameplay or to lure them to get destroyed by station guns. No one needs that kind of gameplay. Why should anybody meet that kind of "gameplay"? Likewise suicidewinders and so on. I think such kind of players should be BANNED for good.
 
Of course - however once each player encounters the blockade they can decide whether to "play along", or not, regardless of what the blockaders might wish they would do.

They can't encounter a blockade unless already playing along. They can stop playing along at any point, but if they do so after they've encountered the blockade, it requires at least as much of a detour to mode switch, or block and reinstance, as it would to high-wake or explode, which means the blockade already had an effect.

Similarly, not all players attain the same skill level over time - so experience in the game does not necessarily mean that NPCs pose no risk to a player.

Recently, I've been mostly using a ship (a partially stripped DBX) as a shuttle for on-foot activities and haven't bothered to plug in my preferred controls, or reconfigure the KBM controls, the defaults of which are terrible and flatly cripple my ability to fly. Due to all the 'murder everyone and pretend it's stealth' path of least resistance missions, my CMDR has been sitting between 5 and 10 notoriety almost continually, wanted or hostile most places he haunts. I still haven't found even the vaguest hint of an NPC threat that I didn't have to explicitly opt into. There are virtually no scenarios where an NPC will engage a CMDR if that CMDR isn't doing stuff that would reasonably provoke NPC hostility, and most of those scenarios that don't involve actively looking for trouble involve NPC interdictions, which are virtually impossible to lose. The PvE game feels like their target competence level was 'supercruise assist while afk'.

All that you said is your opinion or your experience. It is not on you to decide what is a threat, danger or difficult for other players.

I acknowledge that, somewhere, somehow, there are almost certainly those who find NPCs a threat when not actively looking to make them a threat. However, catering to the safety of the most inept hypothetical pilot, when designing the maximum potential organic threat, is not remotely conducive to a convincing depiction of the setting.

In principle, I'm indifferent to whether there is a player or a computer on the other end of a hostile encounter, but in practice, NPC persistence and behavior cannot even begin to do justice to the setting, or provide my CMDR with credible obstacles or threats. My only option for a semblance of excitement is the potential to encounter hostile CMDRs, and even those encounters have been rendered less common and less meaningful by years of Frontier undermining every possible consequence mechanism and abdicating policing of the player base to the player base itself.
 
There are virtually no scenarios where an NPC will engage a CMDR if that CMDR isn't doing stuff that would reasonably provoke NPC hostility, and most of those scenarios that don't involve actively looking for trouble involve NPC interdictions, which are virtually impossible to lose. The PvE game feels like their target competence level was 'supercruise assist while afk'.

I acknowledge that, somewhere, somehow, there are almost certainly those who find NPCs a threat when not actively looking to make them a threat. However, catering to the safety of the most inept hypothetical pilot, when designing the maximum potential organic threat, is not remotely conducive to a convincing depiction of the setting.
Well we get to the point that many commanders do not want trouble unless they are actively chasing it. You know that Space Truck simulator thing. Some people really really do not like unprovoked attacks and such....While some people like fast paced on the edge combat stuff. "One mistake and you are dead" stuff.
 
and even those encounters have been rendered less common and less meaningful by years of Frontier undermining every possible consequence mechanism and abdicating policing of the player base to the player base itself.
Kind of curious what you mean here.

What exact changes have been made since release are you referring to?

To my knowledge the game is still being policed by other players... No?

Maybe I misinterpreted what you were saying?
 
You know letterbox trolling is just the way to either hinder others gameplay or to lure them to get destroyed by station guns. No one needs that kind of gameplay. Why should anybody meet that kind of "gameplay"? Likewise suicidewinders and so on. I think such kind of players should be BANNED for good.
The station should just blast them!

Then a communication, "Sorry commander, we'll clear the debris and then you can be on your way". And then a big swarm of limpets appear to remove the leftovers.
 
You absolutely don't need to PvP-harden your ship for NPCs to not pose a real threat. All you need is a little bit of experience. My 10 year old daughter could farm NPCs and her ship was anything but PvP-hardened.
that is highly dependant on the player, if a player do not care about combat, and have very low combat rating, then this is true, but if the very same player, decides to go for the the triple elite status, then when they increase their combat rank,Some NPC's will scale up with them, most notably delivery missions that spawns NPC's going after the player, will eventually spawn dangerous+ Anacondas, going after the player, and if a player have very limited combat experience, it does not take much skill to get Elite combat rank, just enough time to kill enough targets of suitable combat level.,And when do this, they fly a ship that outfitted for NPC combat, so when they encounter NPC's that is scaled based on their combat rank, in a trader, outfitted for what have worked sofar, then they are going to get a huge surprise when they discover that mission spawned NPC's, can now be Dangerous or higher level, flying Anacondas, that will destroy their typical Type-9 with a shields in a very short time. And before they decided to try to rank up combat rank, this was never a problem...
 
Kind of curious what you mean here.

What exact changes have been made since release are you referring to?

To my knowledge the game is still being policed by other players... No?

Maybe I misinterpreted what you were saying?

Degradation of consequence comes from the repeated reduction in NPC threats (early in the game it was possible to stumble into NPCs that could quickly take apart the unwary in short order...say a gold trap with eight Vultures in it) to the point that affirmative consent is required to face anything vaguely threatening (Spec Ops, wing assassination targets, thargoids); massive inflation of ship capabilities via Engineering and synthesis (which have made crossing the galaxy a relatively fast and virtually risk free endeavour); and exponentially increasing money supply, with fixed, or even reduced, mandatory expenditures.

The game shouldn't need, and should not allow, players to interpret rules for, or enforce them upon, other players. If someone is violating the ToS or other conduct policies, Frontier should handle it, promptly, with as little bias and collateral damage as possible. However, mechanisms like blocking (which has been repeatedly strengthened, from not working at all prior to mid-2015, to being strong enough to break wings today, dramatically increasing the scope of the effect to far beyond those actually being blocked) allow them to ignore all but the most egregious violations by putting the onus on players to impose their own instancing filters, based on whatever arbitrary criteria they choose, wherever they take their characters. Early on in the game, if I reported harassment or behavior that seemed to violate actual policy, players seemed to actually face consequences on occasion. The last few times I did so, I got canned responses essentially telling me to block people. The only rules violations that appear to catch attention now are blatant hacking, using slurs in chat, or threatening/doxxing. Other forms of cheating and harassment feel like they are being ignored, because why bother when there is block.

I was not referring to contextual in-game/in-character policing, which is generally not viable, because of both of the above, and many other, factors. This kind of thing was always a bit sketchy and rapidly became a farce, because all risk is optional and anyone who doesn't play precisely the way one wants them to play can be excluded.

that is highly dependant on the player, if a player do not care about combat, and have very low combat rating, then this is true, but if the very same player, decides to go for the the triple elite status, then when they increase their combat rank,Some NPC's will scale up with them, most notably delivery missions that spawns NPC's going after the player, will eventually spawn dangerous+ Anacondas, going after the player, and if a player have very limited combat experience, it does not take much skill to get Elite combat rank, just enough time to kill enough targets of suitable combat level.,And when do this, they fly a ship that outfitted for NPC combat, so when they encounter NPC's that is scaled based on their combat rank, in a trader, outfitted for what have worked sofar, then they are going to get a huge surprise when they discover that mission spawned NPC's, can now be Dangerous or higher level, flying Anacondas, that will destroy their typical Type-9 with a shields in a very short time. And before they decided to try to rank up combat rank, this was never a problem...

Part of the problem is that the game allows one to scale ranks without proficiency. Earning renown as a combatant should rationally result in increased attention, as well as increased competency of the opponents willing to engage one's CMDR.

Regardless, even being Elite in combat doesn't generate random NPC encounters that are meaningful threats. An Elite anaconda or FDL bounty hunter or pirate spawning in supercruise still has to interdict someone, and even a T-9, flown by someone inexperienced in the interdiction game, should find evading these interdictions easy. I can count the number of interdictions I've had my CMDR initiate on my fingers (I consider the interdictor a superfluous waste of a slot that would be better spent on armor on combat vessels). I also quickly learned to submit to every CMDR interdiction, because I'm bad enough to fail 95%+ of the one's I fight. Yet, I have never lost an interdiction to an NPC except via colliding with an exclusion zone...and they've continually made these even easier/faster to win.

Outside of interdictions, if one is not deliberately looking for trouble, RES are the only areas one is likey to encounter more than easily evaded one-off NPCs and even here the potential risk is implied by knowledge that pirates exist and explicit in the label on the RES.
 
Top Bottom