To Solo Play Players: If You Could Disable PVP, Would You Play in Open Play Mode Instead?

[Ettanin]

While the premise that a frog will not jump out of increasingly hot water has been proven false, there's nothing to stop players leaving a game when there's no game left for them to play in their chosen game mode (due to it having been PvP-gated to Open only to suit a subset of the player-base at the expense of the rest of the player-base, even though all players bought access to mode shared content on the same terms when they bought the game).

I actually meant that in the quoted context - the more you concede to the oo crowd the more they will want cut out from soloers and pgers

 

[Robert Maynard]

I actually meant that in the quoted context - the more you concede to the oo crowd the more they will want cut out from soloers and pgers

Exactly - which was patently obvious in the Powerplay Flash Topic threads - Open only proponents were exuberant at even the possibility of Powerplay being Open only and some of their number suggested / demanded that the BGS, etc. should follow Powerplay, disregarding Sandro's clear statement that Powerplay was the only game feature that was considered suitable by Frontier to be considered for being made Open only.

 

[Ettanin]

I believe revamping CQC to include your own ships, with relative power values to make matchmaking fair, for which the formula has yet to be determined, would make CQC more popular, giving the ability to ad-hoc join fair PvP fights and giving normal gameplay an actual goal (seeing whether ones own build holds up against other players) to strive for.

Nobody needs bullies and I argue that seal clubbing (which FD tried to mitigate using the starter district but failed to do so by shifting the bully encounter points towards close the starter bubble and the first engineers) is something FD would consider sustainable. The current options (block, pg, solo) do not work 100% (blocking still requires encountering the clubber, solo and pg do not allow you to cooperate with randoms reliably and/or without additional hoops to go through) which makes casuals still averse to open.

 

[galahad2069]

Indeed - as PvP is required in none of the mode shared game features, it's not a requirement to participate in any part of the game (except CQC).

Details of warning: Advisory: Trolling.

While one did (before Odyssey) need to learn how to fly, there's no need to learn to how to kill NPCs to earn three of the five in-game Elite ranks.

Which means they had to git gud in that thing, congrats.

While some don't accept that there's a difference, Sandro acknowledged that there's a difference.

The ex-employee dude was probably wrong in this case, although I doubt that the context was the same.
But okay, let's canonize this other dev guy as well alongside Saint Sandro, the one who said that a PvP flag was not going to happen, and let's close the Holy Thread in the name of our Church of Optional PvP.

 

[wrmiller]

Love these continuing threads. Every time I starting thinking 'playing with other might no be so bad', I simply have to spend a few minutes reading this and other threads of a similar bent and I am reminded of why, IMO, it is that bad. Thanks all! /s

 

[Robert Maynard]

Details of warning: Advisory: Trolling.

Stating facts which may be inconvenient to the opposing view is not, as I understand it, trolling....

Which means they had to git gud in that thing, congrats.

Indeed - in those things - not combat.

The ex-employee dude was probably wrong in this case, although I doubt that the context was the same.

In the opinion of some,. maybe - opinions naturally vary.

But okay, let's canonize this other dev guy as well alongside Saint Sandro, the one who said that a PvP flag was not going to happen, and let's close the Holy Thread in the name of our Church of Optional PvP.

Devs are Devs, CMs are CMs. PvP remains an optional extra.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Which means they had to git gud in that thing, congrats.

Well basic flying skills needed to fly from a to b, and land on planets are quite easy to learn. Even landing in high g worlds is basically easy, they just do not allow many mistakes.
But to fly against top tier humans, is kind like between somebody why just got driving license vs. experienced rally driver

 

[galahad2069]

Stating facts which may be inconvenient to the opposing view is not, as I understand it, trolling....

Then it must have been another moderator who sent me that old message the title of which I copied here, sorry, the text never makes that entirely clear IIRC.

Indeed - in those things - not combat.

You may have missed the point you were replying to, there was no such condition anywhere that the "thing" I was talking about had to be combat.

In the opinion of some,. maybe - opinions naturally vary.

Well, no matter what kind of red rectangle or circle was blinking on your radar, you end up at the same rebuy screen, and that's just a fact, not an opinion.

Devs are Devs, CMs are CMs. PvP remains an optional extra.

Ex-devs used to be devs, Frontier CM job advertisement conditions preclude true Scotsmen's applications apparently, and a PvP flag remains nonexistent.

 

[galahad2069]

Well basic flying skills needed to fly from a to b, and land on planets are quite easy to learn. Even landing in high g worlds is basically easy, they just do not allow many mistakes.
But to fly against top tier humans, is kind like between somebody why just got driving license vs. experienced rally driver

Sure thing, but the difference is only quantitative, not qualitative. Some things are easier to learn than others, but all of these things need gitting gud.

Edit: there might have been a bit too many 'things' there, sorry, I'm not a native speaker

 

[Robert Maynard]

You may have missed the point you were replying to, there was no such condition anywhere that the "thing" I was talking about had to be combat.

The section I responded to stated that players "need" to:

And ideed, that's what everyone is doing all the time. You need to learn how to fly, how to kill NPCs, you need to learn how to land on a planet, how to make credits etc etc.

Well, no matter what kind of red rectangle or circle was blinking on your radar, you end up at the same rebuy screen, and that's just a fact, not an opinion.

The rebuy screen does indeed remain the same - the motivation of the attacker is where there's a fundamental difference.

Ex-devs used to be devs, Frontier CM job advertisement conditions preclude true Scotsmen's applications apparently, and a PvP flag remains nonexistent.

A PvP-flag in the multi-player game modes does indeed remain non-existent - however one need not play in either of the multi-player game modes.

 

[galahad2069]

The section I responded to stated that players "need" to:

This was the post where that 'thing' in which you need to git gud is coming from:

You absolutely don't need to become a PvPer to play this game, I never said that.
But in order to be able to participate in any specific part of the game, you need to git gud in that specific field.
And ideed, that's what everyone is doing all the time. You need to learn how to fly, how to kill NPCs, you need to learn how to land on a planet, how to make credits etc etc.
In Open some opponents are hollow rectangles, but that's not a fundamental difference, it's just the irrational feeling of hurt pride that makes it so for some people.

---

The rebuy screen does indeed remain the same - the motivation of the attacker is where there's a fundamental difference.

The motivation of the attacker is the attacker's business. It's a space game, not a 'guess who does what and why' kind of psychology test.

 

[Robert Maynard]

This was the post where that 'thing' in which you need to git gud is coming from:

Indeed - and it states that players "need to learn how to" do a number of things - some of which are completely optional and players don't "need to learn how to" do them.

The motivation of the attacker is the attacker's business. It's a space game, not a 'guess who does what and why' kind of psychology test.

The attacker's motivation is indeed their business - the target's reaction to the attack is theirs, and the circumstances of the attack may lead them to decide that the attacker is not someone that they wish to play with.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Sure thing, but the difference is only quantitative, not qualitative. Some things are easier to learn than others, but all of these things need gitting gud.

Edit: there might have been a bit too many 'things' there, sorry, I'm not a native speaker

Put any ship to FA off and it becomes entirely different beast....That skill is not needed on non-combat gameplay.

 

[galahad2069]

Indeed - and it states that players "need to learn how to" do a number of things - some of which are completely optional and players don't "need to learn how to" do them.

The attacker's motivation is indeed their business - the target's reaction to the attack is theirs, and the circumstances of the attack may lead them to decide that the attacker is not someone that they wish to play with.

In all kind of sentences containing the word 'need' there is an implicit 'or else' or 'if' or 'as long as' part.
I need to eat - otherwise I'm gonna starve to death. But what if I don't care? That makes eating entirely optional.
You need to learn how to do virtually anything - as long as you want to succeed. You don't care if you fail? Sure, then you don't 'need'.

The attacker's motivation is indeed their business - the target's reaction to the attack is theirs, and the circumstances of the attack may lead them to decide that the attacker is not someone that they wish to play with.

I totally don't want to play with these pesky NPCs that keep interdicting me saying 'You have something I want' while I'm not wanted and don't even have a cargo rack. Players should never have been given the power of the block function, see @Morbad 's posts on the topic.

 

[galahad2069]

Put any ship to FA off and it becomes entirely different beast....That skill is not needed on non-combat gameplay.

@Sanderling would beg to differ, lmao

 

[Robert Maynard]

In all kind of sentences containing the word 'need' there is an implicit 'or else' or 'if' or 'as long as' part.
I need to eat - otherwise I'm gonna starve to death. But what if I don't care? That makes eating entirely optional.
You need to learn how to do virtually anything - as long as you want to succeed. You don't care if you fail? Sure, then you don't 'need'.

In a game where three Elite ranks can be attained without firing a shot in combat, there's no "need" to learn how to destroy NPCs (unless the player wants to).

I totally don't want to play with these pesky NPCs that keep interdicting me saying 'You have something I want' while I'm not wanted and don't even have a cargo rack. Players should never have been given the power of the block function, see @Morbad 's posts on the topic.

That players exist who are not fun to play with is reason enough for the block feature to exist in this game, especially as it's not a PvP-focused game, i.e. players are an optional extra - even in Open.

Like the block feature, some players variously insisted (and have done so since the game design was published) that players should not be able to play without them in Solo and Private Groups; affect mode shared game features from two of the three game modes that they were specifically designed to be affected from, etc.. Basically, some players don't like the fact that they can't force other players to play the way they want them to in this game.

 

[galahad2069]

In a game where three Elite ranks can be attained without firing a shot in combat, there's no "need" to learn how to destroy NPCs (unless the player wants to).

Have you even read the post you replied this to?

That players exist who are not fun to play with is reason enough for the block feature to exist in this game

That's just an opinion. It's an utter crap - that's mine.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Have you even read the post you replied this to?

Yup - there's no need to learn how to destroy NPCs if one does not wish to do so - and there are no adverse consequences for not learning to do so.

That's just an opinion. It's an utter crap - that's mine.

Frontier seem to share the opinion of one and not the other - as they included the block feature before the game was even launched and have only made it easier to use and more effective over the years since.

 

[Darrack]

It matters not how big this thread gets or how many threads there are on the subject.
PvPers just need to realise that as long as there are muppets port camping or pad blocking the majority of PVE players wont touch Open with a barge pole.
You can call it roleplay, call it Piracy call it what you want, to those who want a relaxing experience without the griefers its just called being Tw%ts.

If ever stuff like BGS are pushed into Open mode only, many folks will just hit the escape capsule, history has show that games who funnel people into PvP that dont want to are Doomed.
Feel free to post your doomed memes.

Fly safe O7

 

[Felix DiCestria]

Whilst it may be interesting to haul via cmdrs with political or economic reasons for combat; Military or piracy.
The individuals who do it for ship go boom or invoke Spear offer nothing of interest so are prime candidates for blocking.
As stated several times the principal reason for hauling in open is to be able to contact cmdrs with similar interests with an eye to wing cargo/infiltration/mining.
The gankers ships and wakes can also be a good source of encoded mats.