To Solo Play Players: If You Could Disable PVP, Would You Play in Open Play Mode Instead?

[Imrausch]

Hmmm... we have a 15mins video with nearly 100 players' kabooms in it and took less than 4 days to make it.

I don't speak here about any certain videos, or beating rookies and ganking random travellers. I just mean, that engineering made time to kill in PvP unacceptable for some players. Unengineered ships blow up too fast (being intercepted by engineered ones), and highly engineered endure too much fighting each other. In both ways it makes PvP for me too dull. And yet, after all the dancing your opponent has rather good chances too flee.

Speaking about youtube, if you wonder, what kind of PvP in sim I find really fun and challenging, just check dogfight vids from DCS. Yeah, its totally another kind of game, but I personally would be glad, if Elite PvP becomes more of this style, more tense and unforgiving, especially for skilled players.

 

[Imrausch]

From my own experience I'd have to say wrong on all counts, though you do describe the image problem Open has as a result of certain characters.

I am just here like: Cmon, what other interactions between random players there could be in open? No trade, no manufacturing, no base stations owned by squadrons, nothing to fly around with all other pals.

 

[Rebel Yell]

Yes, if a G5 FDL attacks some unengineered cmdr's ship. Well done. YouTube is also filled with videos how 2 experienced pilots with heavy eng ships fight against each other. And that normally last some time.

We mostly fly shieldless Cobra... lol but yes it may happen that different G-engineered ships end up fighting (and everyone is aware of that) but definitively is not that combat instances last for so much time (excluding duels, which are arranged between the parties). Then I reckon there's some TTK and "shield sponges" vs. shield tank builds (by game design) and this may translate into "boring" fights but those are easy to avoid (i.e. 1v1 MultiCannons Cutter vs Cutter without torps, good luck).

 

[Rebel Yell]

Speaking about youtube, if you wonder, what kind of PvP in sim I find really fun and challenging, just check dogfight vids from DCS. Yeah, its totally another kind of game, but I personally would be glad, if Elite PvP becomes more of this style, more tense and unforgiving, especially for skilled players.

The flight model is really good in Elite... and it came from the PvP community the request to change how HD boosters work (i.e. booster stacking) to reduce shield tanking wich is the most viable way to achieve survivability in ED (since hull tanking is not anymore). Having said that, just imagine the game with an arena (CQC - like) deisgned as Wold of Warships with tiers, mods, modules etc (just to mention one of the most popular arena wargames).

 

[galahad2069]

Yes, if a G5 FDL attacks some unengineered cmdr's ship. Well done. YouTube is also filled with videos how 2 experienced pilots with heavy eng ships fight against each other. And that normally last some time.

Some time, yes. Like 5 to 6 minutes on average using meta FDL's, if the pilots know what they are doing.
Not 15 to 40 minutes.

 

[HRDiagram]

248 pages! You're doing great guys!

This thread is brilliant.
There are different opinions and discussions at the same time. Some constructive, some not so much but, in the end, this has become the mother of all "Open vs Solo" threads, and all converge into this one.

I don't think there have been many new threads on the subject since this one started.

Now we need one for ship interiors!

 

[Imrausch]

The flight model is really good in Elite... and it came from the PvP community the request to change how HD boosters work (i.e. booster stacking) to reduce shield tanking wich is the most viable way to achieve survivability in ED (since hull tanking is not anymore). Having said that, just imagine the game with an arena (CQC - like) deisgned as Wold of Warships with tiers, mods, modules etc (just to mention one of the most popular arena wargames).

Absolutly agree about flight model, love it so much. Good point about World of Warships, Elite for now has even greater TTK). But I personally prefer War Thunder approuch with quite honest armor and modules simulation, not just HP stock. Maybe PvP community should request further reduction of shield tanking, like, maybe, only one charge for cell banks. It's, matter of balance, however, my point here is to make PvP more dynamic and tence, with flight model mastery more vital than just G5 engineering. The aim as always should be to make PvP easier to start and harder to master, not just making another "turn PvP off" button. We already have one, called "solo-play".

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Now we need one for ship interiors!

No, we do not.

 

[Imrausch]

Some time, yes. Like 5 to 6 minutes on average using meta FDL's, if the pilots know what they are doing.
Not 15 to 40 minutes.

That's what I mean about 40 minutes (I hope youtubers would excuse me for providing this link without their permission)

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7gri1A93Xk


I don't have that much expertise to say if those guys know what they're doing. It just the fact: they had some tense fighting which would have reasonable duration if they had no cell banks. It's just an example, as I said before, I exaggerated a littile to make my point clearer.

 

[galahad2069]

That's what I mean about 40 minutes (I hope youtubers would excuse me for providing this link without their permission)

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7gri1A93Xk


I don't have that much expertise to say if those guys know what they're doing. It just the fact: they had some tense fighting which would have reasonable duration if they had no cell banks. It's just an example, as I said before, I exaggerated a littile to make my point clearer.

Those guys are most probably noobs (literally no1 is using gimballed lasers, let alone on a FDL).
Here's a top tier 1v1 example instead:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n37WN0U5OVc

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I don't speak here about any certain videos, or beating rookies and ganking random travellers. I just mean, that engineering made time to kill in PvP unacceptable for some players. Unengineered ships blow up too fast (being intercepted by engineered ones), and highly engineered endure too much fighting each other. In both ways it makes PvP for me too dull. And yet, after all the dancing your opponent has rather good chances too flee.

Speaking about youtube, if you wonder, what kind of PvP in sim I find really fun and challenging, just check dogfight vids from DCS. Yeah, its totally another kind of game, but I personally would be glad, if Elite PvP becomes more of this style, more tense and unforgiving, especially for skilled players.

Vanilla PvP was mostly all right. Now it's just arms race for powercreep and crushing noobs and unengineered scrubs for lols. It's like the football team that fielded unfair players. You play against them a couple times and then you just conclude that it just isnt worth the effort and sustained injuries and you stop playing with them.

 

[galahad2069]

Maybe PvP community should request further reduction of shield tanking

This is why you need shields:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egKlIjOr1hs

 

[Imrausch]

Those guys are most probably noobs (literally no1 is using gimballed lasers, let alone on a FDL).
Here's a top tier 1v1 example instead:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n37WN0U5OVc

Hell yeah, top tier guys just keep ramming each other to end this lazy plasma throwing until someone is bored to actual death)

Ok, I take it, they are goot at fa/aiming, they have this shiny g5 plasmas, but yet, it took them 6,5 mins of repetable same type maneuvers. If someone things that's best PvP gameplay we can get in the game, I'm ok with that, but I'll in person just go for thargoids instead.

 

[galahad2069]

Hell yeah, top tier guys just keep ramming each other to end this lazy plasma throwing until someone is bored to actual death)

Ok, I take it, they are goot at fa/aiming, they have this shiny g5 plasmas, but yet, it took them 6,5 mins of repetable same type maneuvers. If someone things that's best PvP gameplay we can get in the game, I'm ok with that, but I'll in person just go for thargoids instead.

LOL, it only lasted so long (6 minutes, not 15, let alone 40) because both of them were extremely good. Had any of them been an average player, he would have been extremely lucky to survive for 120 seconds

 

[Imrausch]

This is why you need shields:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egKlIjOr1hs

That's exactly why we doesn"t need so much shields in the game: ships of the same tonnage shouldn't endure full speed ramming. And g5 shielded prisma guys shouldn't ram unengineered ones with such impunity. It's odd enough, that in 4th millenia humanity fights in WWII style, so lets just ram each other like it's warhammer40k)

 

[Imrausch]

LOL, it only lasted so long (6 minutes, not 15, let alone 40) because both of them were extremely good. Had any of them been an average player, he would have been extremely lucky to survive for 120 seconds

6 mins is still a hell of TTK, but the point is: was this an interesting or breathtaking experience?) The one you can show your buddy and say: that's hot and dangerous, boy! If you grind enough and master fa/off like Yoda, you'll be able make it same precious way!)

 

[Felix DiCestria]

I am just here like: Cmon, what other interactions between random players there could be in open? No trade, no manufacturing, no base stations owned by squadrons, nothing to fly around with all other pals.

I've participated in more than enough wing trade missions, surface infiltration missions, etc...
These are why I fly in Open, something you might have found out if you didn't stay in solo.

 

[Imrausch]

I've participated in more than enough wing trade missions, surface infiltration missions, etc...
These are why I fly in Open, something you might have found out if you didn't stay in solo.

I can do wing missions in private, where nothing (and noone) except bugs will interfiere. The only reason to go open now is random encounters with other cmdrs and for what? I can't see any gameplay features except PvP. Sometimes we can swarm for some CGs, expeditions and some other "entertain yourself" activities organised by community. Elite is the best choice for social withdrawal, but she's absolutly not best example of MMO-game at her current state.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

I can do wing missions in private, where nothing (and noone) except bugs will interfiere. The only reason to go open now is random encounters with other cmdrs and for what? I can't see any gameplay features except PvP. Sometimes we can swarm for some CGs, expeditions and some other "entertain yourself" activities organised by community. Elite is the best choice for social withdrawal, but she's absolutly not best example of MMO-game at her current state.

So how do find cmdrs to participate in your PG?
Plenty of wing missions take place in open . Just because you choose not to see what's right in front of you isn't our or Fdev's problem.

 

[Imrausch]

Vanilla PvP was mostly all right. Now it's just arms race for powercreep and crushing noobs and unengineered scrubs for lols. It's like the football team that fielded unfair players. You play against them a couple times and then you just conclude that it just isnt worth the effort and sustained injuries and you stop playing with them.

I feel the same way. fdev announced that they want some changes in engineering, maybe it's time to rework the whole balance it created.