Travel Needs to be Fun and Engaging

[Ignition]

Do you people hear yourselves:

If you don't like forced combat every single mission, stop playing

If you don't like boring , soulless RNG grind, stop playing.

If you don't like non-interacting load screen travel, stop playing

If you don't like pointless grind, stop playing

If you dont like missions that involve nothing but aforementioned terrible, non interactive travel stop playing.

You DO realize that the "all I really care about is my press J to interact screensaver/Netflix combo" crowd isn't enough to sustain the ongoing development of this game, right? I mean, who DO you recommend this game for? People who want the additional sounds of a ships engines droning away in the background of Stranger Things?

Some of us want actual game play, you know.

Most people who enjoy Elite doesn't get it. For them simplistic gameplay is deep as an ocean. For them the BGS is the most complex thing in the world and they don't get that to change it they need to do very simplistic tasks.

I'm not asking for a DCS gameplay (it would be AWESOME though) but a more involved and complex mechanics is MANDATORY.

 

[S3B4ST13N]

I agree, that is not exploring. But the exploration mechanics do need expanding upon.

I think the galaxy needs more to be discovered. I also think they need to make the planets more unique in their geographical features, most planets I've been too are very flat (wish I knew why). More uniqueness to systems, colours, planets, shapes. Anomalies ( make stuff up that is scientifically sound, watch Star Trek for inspiration! ). More randomly generated content. Like, finding a space ship with a mission on it that leads you around an entire system, allowing you to unlock the store of "person X" a young explorer who tried to survive by herself after a strange geomagnetic disturbance turned everyone on her ship nutbag crazy.
Whatever, just ... more content to discover is needed.

 

[Sterling MH]

Jumping is pressing 1 button nothing more.

And Mortal Kombat is nothing but Triangle-Triangle-Triangle playing Ryu.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

I agree, that is not exploring. But the exploration mechanics do need expanding upon.

The only real issue I have with exploring - and I'm speaking as someone that's spent far more time out of the bubble than in it - is the lack of variety. It would be nice to have a few more oddities out there.

But I'm also confident that will occur in time.

 

[Ignition]

Surely that depends on what you call gameplay. Last night I did 1000 LY in an hour, but during that time I scanned various planats and stars, look at my system map to see what was there, land on planets to see some interesting planetary features, for me that is gameplay.

If I just jumped to my target system or skipped past those systems, then that would of been loads of gameplay lost and would of missed out on these place I encountered.

Sure you can buckyball it and that is a slog at times, but you generally only do that for specific reasons and really that is a choice you make yourself.

For me pressing another button to scan, see empty planets, almost no gameplay to scan POI, POI completely random without any way to filter signals, is not gameplay. Its just tourism.

I would talk lenghlty about exploration but thats for another thread.

This has nothing to do with traveling mechanics.

 

[Sterling MH]

I think the galaxy needs more to be discovered. I also think they need to make the planets more unique in their geographical features, most planets I've been too are very flat (wish I knew why). More uniqueness to systems, colours, planets, shapes. Anomalies ( make stuff up that is scientifically sound, watch Star Trek for inspiration! ). More randomly generated content. Like, finding a space ship with a mission on it that leads you around an entire system, allowing you to unlock the store of "person X" a young explorer who tried to survive by herself after a strange geomagnetic disturbance turned everyone on her ship nutbag crazy.
Whatever, just ... more content to discover is needed.

Probably for Season 3. They're doing combat because everyone, no matter what, will have to do SOME combat. And they're trying to do reasons to play Open and make it worth being multiplayer, given we have only 7 billion humans and 400 billion stars to spread them over, even if all of them bought Elite.

Trading next, I reckon, with more alien empire finding rolled out alongside. Trading needs a lot. Ever worked in a dispatch centre for haulage? There's nothing like that possible without a ream of real world paper and pen. Most people probably chainjump because it's easier to buy at A and sell at Z than to work out how to profit from each jump in between. So trading next, I reckon.

Exploring requires more universe work. More aliens, more interaction with aliens and their interstellar bubbles and empires. More science to shoot probes off to planets, then someone gets a mission to pick those probes up 2 months later. More science to do when you land in your SRV. More assets to roll out when explorers come back having found another potential bubble hub, making a new place for people to complain about the long drive there so that they'll stop complaining "Are we there yet?" and get to do stuff when there.

Just my opinion, though. WWID.

 

[Ignition]

I don't think FD should design the game around people's desire to watch Netflix, that's just silly.

I think they already did.

And they seem happy about it.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

It is. You can't think about your response to his move until AFTER he's made it.

Of course you can, and if you're half-decent at chess, you're doing this several moves in advance. True, you don't actually know which move your opponent will make, but you do know what moves your opponent could make, and what your move will be in response, and what moves your opponent will have after that, and what your responses will be to any of those moves... until you've played out every possible move and counter-move in your head while you're opponent is doing the same.

And if you've both done this to its fullest extent, you shake hands, congratulate each other on a match well played, and walk away from the board with no pieces ever having been touched, as the only possible outcome would be a stalemate, and then you go play something like Elite, which is far less predictable.

 

[Sterling MH]

For me pressing another button to scan, see empty planets, almost no gameplay to scan POI, POI completely random without any way to filter signals, is not gameplay. Its just tourism.

I would talk lenghlty about exploration but thats for another thread.

This has nothing to do with traveling mechanics.

So this is the wrong thread. Given your "I would.. another thread" sentence, this is highly ironic.

 

[Anthemeia]

Why is this an either/or problem and not a both/and one? Being able to navigate a wormhole or experimental jumpgate doesn't cheapen travel. In fact, if it takes skill to do it, it would put travel on a par with combat. Skilled explorers and traders learn how to manage ships systems, targeting, and other resources the way dog fighters do. Moreover, this is why the huge trade ships would remain on the old jump method: good luck maneuvering your T-9 through a snarl of non-linear space folds! And heck, if you can, you deserve those profits.

And if you bungle a jump, you pay the cost: a ship battered by hyperspace, getting tossed out at an RNG'd number of Lys off course, cargo deterioration, or even stranger things. That sounds like fun AND a price I'd be willing to gamble to not look at loading screens, but for those who like the slow plod across the stars, the availability of a costly fast travel option doesn't upset their fun either.

There are ways to add new features to a game that attract players without undermining what the current base already likes. You can, in fact, put your chocolate in my peanut butter, and we can both be happy with the result.

 

[Lestat]

For me pressing another button to scan, see empty planets, almost no gameplay to scan POI, POI completely random without any way to filter signals, is not gameplay. Its just tourism.

I would talk lenghlty about exploration but thats for another thread.

This has nothing to do with traveling mechanics.

It use to be pirates out while your exploring. But people complain about pirate being out there. So this is mechanic we got. When there was uss people complain because there was so many out there. In planetary landing people use to find ship destroyed. People complain about them so they took that out.

I wish you did see other explorer out there and have mission to get to a system they have a short jump range. If a ship was out of fuel your able to refuel them.

 

[Sterling MH]

Of course you can

No, you can think about the move he MIGHT make, not the one he hasn't yet made, unless you're playing a computer that has a deterministic engine running the game, which isn't what they're running against grandmasters today.

But in any case, this was all in aid of:

1) Non interaction is not gameplay!
2) Chess.
3) Ah, but I think when I'm waiting!
4) See 1.

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Being able to navigate a wormhole or experimental jumpgate doesn't cheapen travel.

In fact, this is what XRebirth tried with their superhighways. Cliff notes version: it did not go down well.

As another pointed out, it does cheapen travel to a Quick Time Event. They've been done too. Cliff notes version: it did not go down well.

 

[S3B4ST13N]

Probably for Season 3. They're doing combat because everyone, no matter what, will have to do SOME combat. And they're trying to do reasons to play Open and make it worth being multiplayer, given we have only 7 billion humans and 400 billion stars to spread them over, even if all of them bought Elite.

I'm suspicious of the timing between the weapon/ship enhancements for combat and the release of alien content. ¬.¬

Trading next, I reckon, with more alien empire finding rolled out alongside. Trading needs a lot. Ever worked in a dispatch centre for haulage? There's nothing like that possible without a ream of real world paper and pen. Most people probably chainjump because it's easier to buy at A and sell at Z than to work out how to profit from each jump in between. So trading next, I reckon.

I know I did. Frontier like to think that the GalMap is more than sufficient and try to sell us on that, but it's not; not by a long shot. Not without some real in-depth knowledge of how prices are affected. Eg: I knew to take grain to a particular system because they imported it. I actually made a loss. No idea why. Now I know to rather look for famine systems and give them grain, or medical supplies to plague systems.

Exploring requires more universe work. More aliens, more interaction with aliens and their interstellar bubbles and empires. More science to shoot probes off to planets, then someone gets a mission to pick those probes up 2 months later. More science to do when you land in your SRV. More assets to roll out when explorers come back having found another potential bubble hub, making a new place for people to complain about the long drive there so that they'll stop complaining "Are we there yet?" and get to do stuff when there.

I agree. I think it would have been far more interesting to establish Elite, for example, in the 3500's. Centuries after the Thagoid threat, and mere decades since the establishment of a peace accord with an alien race or two. Giving players not only a wider selection of ships, but allowing them, perhaps, to choose a race for their CMDR.

Sometimes being the human is boring.

The rest of that I hope makes it into the game, at least this year or during Season 3.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Hates Flying?

Please ACTUALLY Read my post.

I love FLYING the ships. I do not like loading screens and arbitrary WAIT WALLS. Neither of which has anything to do with flying.

Again, please READ.

I am basing that it on your recommendations, which essentially boils down to "Remove Supercruise." You know, the part of the game where you actually FLY your ship. Supercruise times are already rediculously short. You can go from undocking at one station, to docking at a station in another system, in under three minutes if you is what you're doing.

Three minutes.

Most of the challenges of Supercruise have already been removed, because people couldn't be bothered to learn to overcome the obstacles the game provided.

Mass shadows that can ensnare your ship, leaving you vulnerable to pirate ambush? Gone.

Optimal flight paths to speed you through a system? Gone.

The need to engage your brain if you wanted to cut your travel time in half? Gone.

The rush of threading the needle as you arrive at your destination, relying on the effects of nearby mass to stop your ship quickly? It's still there, but it takes much longer, thanks to the eye of the needle shrinking, while speeds increased massively. Still a lot faster than the "70% at 7" method, though.

I found Supercruise to be much more fun in its first iteration. If you flew actively, paying attention to your surroundings and plotting a course around hazards, you could get to your destination in a few minutes. It was only those who pointed right at their destination, and set their throttle in the blue zone, who had 10+ minute wait times.

If you want travel to truly be engaging, then you should be asking for the exact opposite of your opening post.

Make Supercruise fun again. Beef up the effects of gravity, and let the active flyers leave the passive flyers in the dust.

 

[BurnyBurns]

I don't pretend to have the answer. But I DO know that, in the 21st century, forcing players to spend 50℅ of their time in a game looking at loading screens is completely unacceptable.

*Shhhhht!* Don't say this too loud. You'll attract the immersion police and they'll shout you down with their immersive simulation arguments. Don't you know? Space is big and that can only be conveyed through loading screens.

 

[Blackcompany]

Eye Spy? (sorry I couldn't help myself lol)

Personally, I like that these things take time, it is one of the things that make the game feel unique. Your tedium is my enjoyment it seems. Game like ED should not cater for all player types .. it will become generic as with 99% of the games on the market these days.

Loading screens do not take that much time (always room for improvement tho), and probably only count for less that 5% of actual time realistically. You must be exaggerating right, else I would contact support as there may be something wrong on your connection? I am connecting from Australia too and other than the occasional lag out where the load screen make take 30secs between systems, it is normally quick-ish.

Could there be other 'things' going on when travelling? Sure, more content would be cool outside of the mandatory interdiction each system or dropping into a USS, but should remain flexible/optional not to turn back into the chain-interdiction issues we had last year.

I'm an explorer, I've seen a reasonable amount of the galaxy, much more than some, much less than others.
Yeah the time spent in witchspace can get tedious at times, and it would be nice to have a little variety every now and again, but here's the rub.... I also really like the lack of demand that long distance travel requires.
A couple of thousand light years for me is a chance to watch a streamer, chat with friends or catch up with a series I like on Netflix. It's "me" time where I can sit and think undisturbed, unless I want to be and where the only timeframe I need to worry about is my own.
Be careful what you wish for, they say, and in this case most definitely. Exploration and long distance travel is the one place in the game where you can unwind and take your time, and however you spice it up, you need to do it in a way that doesn't decimate a gameplay style that many of us, at times, prefer to be as bland and unspicey as possible.

I'm not saying that you're wrong to want to change it. Like I said, I've had times where the number of jumps to get to someplace interesting has seemed pretty daunting...I could have done with some means of either getting back automatically, or getting somewhere more interesting more quickly. But that's only every now and again, and the rest of the time I just want to drift on between the stars without worrying when the next npc or random encounter is going to bring that peace to and abrupt, firey end.

I am basing that it on your recommendations, which essentially boils down to "Remove Supercruise." You know, the part of the game where you actually FLY your ship. Supercruise times are already rediculously short. You can go from undocking at one station, to docking at a station in another system, in under three minutes if you is what you're doing.

Three minutes.

Most of the challenges of Supercruise have already been removed, because people couldn't be bothered to learn to overcome the obstacles the game provided.

Mass shadows that can ensnare your ship, leaving you vulnerable to pirate ambush? Gone.

Optimal flight paths to speed you through a system? Gone.

The need to engage your brain if you wanted to cut your travel time in half? Gone.

The rush of threading the needle as you arrive at your destination, relying on the effects of nearby mass to stop your ship quickly? It's still there, but it takes much longer, thanks to the eye of the needle shrinking, while speeds increased massively. Still a lot faster than the "70% at 7" method, though.

I found Supercruise to be much more fun in its first iteration. If you flew actively, paying attention to your surroundings and plotting a course around hazards, you could get to your destination in a few minutes. It was only those who pointed right at their destination, and set their throttle in the blue zone, who had 10+ minute wait times.

If you want travel to truly be engaging, then you should be asking for the exact opposite of your opening post.

Make Supercruise fun again. Beef up the effects of gravity, and let the active flyers leave the passive flyers in the dust.

Got to admit, that version of SC does sound pretty great. I'd have liked to try that.

Ruined by moaning Netflix watchers, was it?

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Eye Spy? (sorry I couldn't help myself lol)

Personally, I like that these things take time, it is one of the things that make the game feel unique. Your tedium is my enjoyment it seems. Game like ED should not cater for all player types .. it will become generic as with 99% of the games on the market these days.

Loading screens do not take that much time (always room for improvement tho), and probably only count for less that 5% of actual time realistically. You must be exaggerating right, else I would contact support as there may be something wrong on your connection? I am connecting from Australia too and other than the occasional lag out where the load screen make take 30secs between systems, it is normally quick-ish.

Could there be other 'things' going on when travelling? Sure, more content would be cool outside of the mandatory interdiction each system or dropping into a USS, but should remain flexible/optional not to turn back into the chain-interdiction issues we had last year.

I'm an explorer, I've seen a reasonable amount of the galaxy, much more than some, much less than others.
Yeah the time spent in witchspace can get tedious at times, and it would be nice to have a little variety every now and again, but here's the rub.... I also really like the lack of demand that long distance travel requires.
A couple of thousand light years for me is a chance to watch a streamer, chat with friends or catch up with a series I like on Netflix. It's "me" time where I can sit and think undisturbed, unless I want to be and where the only timeframe I need to worry about is my own.
Be careful what you wish for, they say, and in this case most definitely. Exploration and long distance travel is the one place in the game where you can unwind and take your time, and however you spice it up, you need to do it in a way that doesn't decimate a gameplay style that many of us, at times, prefer to be as bland and unspicey as possible.

I'm not saying that you're wrong to want to change it. Like I said, I've had times where the number of jumps to get to someplace interesting has seemed pretty daunting...I could have done with some means of either getting back automatically, or getting somewhere more interesting more quickly. But that's only every now and again, and the rest of the time I just want to drift on between the stars without worrying when the next npc or random encounter is going to bring that peace to and abrupt, firey end.

*Shhhhht!* Don't say this too loud. You'll attract the immersion police and they'll shout you down with their immersive simulation arguments. Don't you know? Space is big and that can only be conveyed through loading screens.

This gave me a laugh, cause it's happened so much in this thread.

As if a loading screen followed by "hey, I supposedly just moved 40LY" does anything at all to convey size or distance...

 

[Ignition]

Travel is never fun if you don't find traveling fun.

SC will have 1000 systems, all scripted, but once you've triggered the script, it will be pointless going there again. And there's no point exploring. There's only 1000 systems, and that will be gone in a month by others pushing the explore gameplay.

Heck, even though it's less than 1% discovered, that would still be up to 4 billion star systems explored in two years. How long would 1000 have lasted???

They're both very different games.

SC is a single player who happens to fly a spaceship frequently. And everything YOU do is important, it's ALL about YOU!

E|D is a single playership flying in space with you as the pilot. Everything you do has an effect, but you're a tiny speck in this universe.

X1-3 is a single company executive starting by his own bootstraps who does most of his empire building from the cockpit of a spaceship. The universe is small, and you will become a big player in it, but some things will never change.

The focus of the game and its role for you in it are very different. If you want to feel unrealistically important, SC. If you want to feel important in a small pond, pick X, if you want to feel like you're living in a galactic society, a mote in a mountain of sand, play E|D.

And as long as they are distinctly different in play, all three have a vital and useful entertainment role in PC gaming.

If they start trying to be one of the others to bend to "consumer reports" sourced from marketing feedback and entitlement cries on fora, then you get XRebirth.

MMMM sorry but when did I say it should be like Star Citizen or any other game? We're talking about travel in Elite thanks.

 

[Sterling MH]

Of course you can

No you can't, unless there is no such thing as free will. You can plan for moves they might make, but that's not thinking of his move before he makes it, that's thinking of what move he MIGHT make,BEFORE he makes it. After ,there's no need to think of what he might do: he done it.

And again, are you saying that this thinking about moves isn't chess gameplay?

 

[Ignition]

how many buttons should it be?

1 but with gameplay not just 1 button and wait

I know its very difficult to understand.

 

[Sterling MH]

MMMM sorry but when did I say it should be like Star Citizen or any other game? We're talking about travel in Elite thanks.

Because your complaint is about making it more like one of those others.

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1 but with gameplay not just 1 button and wait

I know its very difficult to understand.

Yes. So press one button, then what? You can't press any more, because that would be more than 1 button. You've supplied nothing so far other than "Waaah! One button!".