Update 15, the Upcoming Feature Rework and More

Old Duck

Old Duck
Jack Schitt said:
Perhaps. A lot of reviews on Steam, albeit a minority, are saying similar things about its potential longevity. And some of the gameplay is very janky; I watched someone doing a "village raid" and the defending NPCs were emerging more or less one at a time in straight lines before being picked off. The ghosts in Pac-Man demonstrated more strategic variety.

But it's a sterling effort for a lone developer and for the price of a couple of ARX packs I'm prepared to give it a punt. I'd sooner see someone try and fail at a project like this, than not have enough backing to be able to try properly in the first place.

I guess it's also down to the definition of content, or the need for new. If elements of the gameplay are adequately entertaining it might be enough to keep me casually engaged. I still fire up Hardwar from time to time and that hasn't had new content in 20 years. Although to be fair it does have a proper ending to its story.

When push comes to shove I'm just looking for something to entertain me in my increasingly limited gaming time. ED isn't really doing that any more, and while I will admit that's as much the result of my attitude towards FD's custodianship of the game as of the game itself, self-analysis doesn't help me to change reality. I don't feel engaged with ED like I once did, and half-baked eleventh-hour spin like this empty "Feature Rework" announcement is part of the reason why.

Perhaps I will feel equally jaded about Spacebourne 2 if I try it and it ultimately disappoints. But at least it will be for the right reasons.
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I think equating Spacebourne 2 to the Elite Dangerous we have today is wrong. Spacebourne 2 is Elite Dangerous during the Kickstarter phase and initial alphas, it's just using a different model (early access) for financing.

I'm still undecided if I want to support this "Kickstarter" or not.
 

[PS4 Pro - PC] earthtone99

[PS4 Pro - PC] earthtone99
I don’t mind the Feature Rework delay, I’m experiencing and expecting them with just about every avenue in life post Covid and seems the ‘new norm’, I feel for those under extreme pressure and suffering low staffing right now.

That being said, is it worth hanging on for a vague feature rework, of which we have absolutely no idea what is going to be reworked besides ‘potential hints’ in GalNet etc.

If we had some inkling of what it is, be it PowerPlay, Engineering, Exploration, Combat, Mining, Thargoid or such, it would, at least in my eyes, give more incentive to remain and stick around towards the end of 2023, which is rather a long way away.

There’s nothing to say that this element might even get cancelled completely before, or at year end mind you.

o7 - Sorry for the ‘Doom & Gloom’ return.
 

Jack Winter

Jack Winter
IMO, no need to be sorry for the doom, it seems a pragmatic POV! Best to just play the game we have today (if one likes it), and then be pleasantly surprised (or disappointed / angered) at a future date. And chances are that someone that doesn't like todays game, isn't going to change opinion when / if the feature rework drops.
 

Old Duck

Old Duck
Jack Winter said:
And chances are that someone that doesn't like todays game, isn't going to change opinion when / if the feature rework drops.
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If you're basing your statistics on Frontier's ability to deliver a "bring people back" feature / rework, then I agree with you. If you're suggesting that no game can go from bad to good (in the eye of the beholder), bringing in people who originally avoided those games before they were fixed up, well then I have a collection of now favorite games, once avoided, to disprove that hypothesis.

I do agree that, direction-wise, Elite seems to be set in stone, feature rework or not, and that people who don't like any of the actual gameplay of Elite now probably won't in the future either, assuming their dislike is based on game design rather than bugs or half-finished features.
 
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Sylow

Sylow
Tikanderoga said:
I'm not saying it's doomed, but I think they game has been put on minimal life support and let's see how much Arx we can squeeze out of this until the final day we pull the plug.
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Here i disagree. One can complain about development being slow. But i actually dare to say that ED has a history of stuff being tossed out of the doorway to meet internal milestones, no matter in which shape it was. (Again, personal experience of a company i worked at some time: there managers pushed that, because they had their bonus payments tied to delivering stuff on time. No milestones were set on the quality of what we delivered, so delivering garbage on time it was... a first time right approach with quality in mind would have saved money for both the company and the customer, but the higher up managers were unable to comprehend that and kept making milestones solely on delivery dates. )

So if they now, for a change, actually take their time to deliver quality, i more than welcome that. And stuff is happening. The last patches might now have held terrabytes of new stuff, but new things were added to the game. Yes, new equipment again was put behind layers of grind, but it was added. So based on my gaming experience, this is not life support yet. It might indeed be a shrunk down team. No big surprise after the Odyssey fiasco and really bad news for all those who had to switch. I feel sorry for them, especially as i also think that one more year of development and then delivering a quality product would have been financially much better for the company and the team.

I thus would say that merely life support and milking the game for money is not yet the situation we are at. I don't argue that this could not happen at some time and have no idea, when it will. But the last months were more than zero new things, so in my eyes we're not there yet, and hope that this also still is some time away.

That all being said, i do believe that FD openly telling us a bit more of what is going on in the background would already go a long way.
 

Jack Winter

Jack Winter
Old Duck said:
If you're basing your statistics on Frontier's ability to deliver a "bring people back" feature / rework, then I agree with you. If you're suggesting that no game can go from bad to good (in the eye of the beholder), bringing in people who originally avoided those games before they were fixed up, well then I have a collection of now favorite games, once avoided, to disprove that hypothesis.

I do agree that, direction-wise, Elite seems to be set in stone, feature rework or not, and that people who don't like any of the actual gameplay of Elite now probably won't in the future either, assuming their dislike is based on game design rather than bugs or half-finished features.
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No I'm saying that it's unlikely that someone not liking the current version of ED is going to change opinion because of a future change. Though I suppose it's not completely impossible.
 

S0rkvild

S0rkvild
I'm really excited about "major feature rework", there is much to do and I hope it will be major and meaningful. ED definitely needs a breath of fresh air.
 

Sylow

Sylow
Old Duck said:
If you're basing your statistics on Frontier's ability to deliver a "bring people back" feature / rework, then I agree with you. If you're suggesting that no game can't go from bad to good (in the eye of the beholder), bringing in people who originally avoided those games before they were fixed up, well then I have a collection of now favorite games, once avoided, to disprove that hypothesis.
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Hehe, yea. I could make you a list of games which were a terribly fiasko at one stage, usually at launch and the first years after. But the developers did not merely give up, but sit down, listen to the players and even more so to those players who have left [1], and adjusted their game. And managed to turn the game around and get quite a fanbase. Some of them i also play now or have played and enjoyed for quite some time, in their revised version.

So while there might indeed be a certain number of players who (just like good dwarves) never give up a grudge, there's plenty of people who are more than ready to give a game a second and sometimes even a third chance, if the developers actually change and improve things. (For me personally, the list would be Elder Scrolls Online, Final Fantasy 14 and No Man's Sky. I also gave Fallout 76 another look recently and think it still can use some work, but it indeed has improved a lot compared to its launch status. I hope they manage to keep it up. )

Not all hope is lost for ED yet, i think. Yet i do believe that FD has to shape up, the last years were bad and while things are improving, i feel they merely went from terribly bad to kind of meh. Greatness is unfortunately quite some distance to go.


[1] Yes, this requires to have an ear to the community. Not just fan-videos and also not just the game forum. But rather google for the game and read what people in forums of other games and reddit threads for other games say. In a less emotionally connected environment, away from the game, you get clearer feedback.
 

Logan Terrick

Logan Terrick
Sylow said:
So if they now, for a change, actually take their time to deliver quality, i more than welcome that.
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The problem is the community has given Frontier that excuse numerous times over the years. Every time the result has been that they still failed to deliver quality, so the delays were pointless in that regard and were never likely for that reason in the first place.

Now I believe that notion is misplaced. I believe Frontier are taking their time because they currently have nothing to offer us of any worth and with the current position of the game they have no intention of adding or re-working anything that would cause them more than the minimum of effort.

All they are working on is adding more narrative. They are just keeping the game ticking over and the money rolling in as long as they can.

Having said that I would love it if they do come out with some amazing feature re-work that's actually of good quality by the end of this year. I seriously doubt it though.

If someone lets you down 15 times in a row then the likelihood is that the 16th time is going to be the same.
 
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Goober013

G
I will continue to play the game as is, as stated earlier I enjoy the game. I have and do play other computer games, one for over 10 yrs. and I have never seen a company state there is going to be a update and just before the update the tell you they don't even have a plan yet. Yes I'm a little upset about this but not at the game itself. Im upset o how U15 was handled up to this point and most likely to next year.
 

Logan Terrick

Logan Terrick
Dox Paradox said:
Well, we already know it is a feature rework so nothing new.
TheBuurPit thinks it will be a PowerPlay rework, linked to the PMF. More direct ways to influence the galaxy for players, things like that.
Don't know if it qualifies as "new feature" but it sure show that the game is alive and well.
It seems plausible to me.
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A lot of people think various things. This is why it would be sensible for Frontier to at least come out and say which feature they are actually looking at re-working. I thought it was going to be the Ship Engineering and Material Gathering re-work that Frontier asked for feedback on how we'd like to see it re-worked nearly 18 months ago. That makes more sense to me, that they are re-working the feature that they asked for feedback on re-working.

Put it this way - if it's not the Ship Engineering and Material Gathering that is to be re-worked then Frontier have wasted the time and effort of every single person involved in providing that feedback, which is a lot of people and a lot of effort. That would show massive disrespect for their community and their time, which is, according to Frontier, something that they have a lot of respect for.
 
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SasaThargoidsHunter

S
Logan Terrick said:
The problem is the community has given Frontier that excuse numerous times over the years. Every time the result has been that they still failed to deliver quality, so the delays were pointless in that regard and were never likely for that reason in the first place.

Now I believe that notion is misplaced. I believe Frontier are taking their time because they currently have nothing to offer us of any worth and with the current position of the game they have no intention of adding or re-working anything that would cause them more than the minimum of effort.

All they are working on is adding more narrative. They are just keeping the game ticking over and the money rolling in as long as they can.

Having said that I would love it if they do come out with some amazing feature re-work that's actually of good quality by the end of this year. I seriously doubt it though.

If someone lets you down 15 times in a row then the likelihood is that the 16th time is going to be the same.
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It would be worse when they again deliver an update which need an update for fix the update but before that another month is passing by with announcements of the announcements devils circle and this is since almost two years the case 😅
 

Sylow

Sylow
Logan Terrick said:
A lot of people think various things. This is why it would be sensible for Frontier to at least come out and say which feature they are actually looking at re-working. I thought it was going to be the Ship Engineering and Material Gathering re-work that Frontier asked for feedback on how we'd like to see it re-worked nearly 18 months ago. That makes more sense to me, that they are re-working the feature that they asked for feedback on re-working.

Put it this way - if it's not the Ship Engineering and Material Gathering that is to be re-worked then Frontier have wasted the time and effort of every single person involved in providing that feedback, which is a lot of people and a lot of effort. That would show massive disrespect for their community and their time, which is, according to Frontier, something that they have a lot of respect for.
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Indeed. Yet others think that it will be a rework of the planetary survey stuff, especially the xenobiology part, as that is really a whole lot of nothing at the moment.

And by never telling us anything, FD just set themselves up to disappoint. No matter what they do, in the end people will feel let down. The longer they way, the higher the falling distance. But that's something they seem to fail to comprehend.
 

Logan Terrick

Logan Terrick
Sylow said:
Indeed. Yet others think that it will be a rework of the planetary survey stuff, especially the xenobiology part, as that is really a whole lot of nothing at the moment.

And by never telling us anything, FD just set themselves up to disappoint. No matter what they do, in the end people will feel let down. The longer they way, the higher the falling distance. But that's something they seem to fail to comprehend.
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Everyone hopes it will be their favourite area of the game. Let's be honest, they all could do with improving.

I agree. Frontiers lack of comprehension for most things boggles my mind, over and over.
 

Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
Logan Terrick said:
A lot of people think various things. This is why it would be sensible for Frontier to at least come out and say which feature they are actually looking at re-working. I thought it was going to be the Ship Engineering and Material Gathering re-work that Frontier asked for feedback on how we'd like to see it re-worked nearly 18 months ago. That makes more sense to me, that they are re-working the feature that they asked for feedback on re-working.
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By that logic it should definitely be a Powerplay update, as the equivalent Powerplay discussions took place in ... 2018, I think? Far enough back that the various threads have been lost in forum reorganisations.

Engineering can be next after that.

I agree that - having mentioned it at all, and it clearly not being tightly connected to the plot if they can just delay it several months without the writing team attacking them - they should just say roughly what it is (or perhaps more accurately, what it isn't) and get most of the disappointment out of the way now.

Logan Terrick said:
Put it this way - if it's not the Ship Engineering and Material Gathering that is to be re-worked then Frontier have wasted the time and effort of every single person involved in providing that feedback, which is a lot of people and a lot of effort. That would show massive disrespect for their community and their time, which is, according to Frontier, something that they have a lot of respect for.
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Well, not necessarily every single person. Quite a few of the comments - not a majority, no - are along the lines of "basically okay, maybe tweak this a bit", and given the choice some of those posters would likely prefer the rework wasn't ship engineering. It's not as if there isn't a shortage of systems which haven't been reworked for much longer than Engineering's last big rewrite in 3.0.

If Frontier decide as a result of the feedback that there's no change they could make which would be cost-effective for the satisfaction increase it would provide - there's certainly a consensus that something needs to change in that thread, but rather less on what and in which direction, then that's not "wasting the time" of people submitting feedback [1]. They certainly aren't going to make everyone happy - the "abolish it entirely" and the "needs to be more powerful" groups are going to have opposed views on pretty much anything they could do - so presumably by this logic one of those groups wasted its time participating even if they do implement a change?

[1] Not in the first 50 or so pages, anyway, or however long it took them to reach that conclusion. If that is the conclusion they've come to then it would be worth saying so and closing the thread at this point, though!
 

Logan Terrick

Logan Terrick
Ian Doncaster said:
By that logic it should definitely be a Powerplay update, as the equivalent Powerplay discussions took place in ... 2018, I think? Far enough back that the various threads have been lost in forum reorganisations.

Engineering can be next after that.
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I didn't realise that there had been a Focused Feedback thread for Powerplay changes, I must have missed it.

I just went back and checked. There never has been one. There was a 'DIY' one created by forum members in July 2021, but that is just members wanting changes not Frontier asking for feedback as they are planning on making changes. That's a totally different thing.

The last Focused Feedback thread from Frontier was the 'Balancing Ship Engineering & Material Gathering' one in November 2021. So Engineering should be next.

Ian Doncaster said:
Well, not necessarily every single person. Quite a few of the comments - not a majority, no - are along the lines of "basically okay, maybe tweak this a bit", and given the choice some of those posters would likely prefer the rework wasn't ship engineering. It's not as if there isn't a shortage of systems which haven't been reworked for much longer than Engineering's last big rewrite in 3.0.

If Frontier decide as a result of the feedback that there's no change they could make which would be cost-effective for the satisfaction increase it would provide - there's certainly a consensus that something needs to change in that thread, but rather less on what and in which direction, then that's not "wasting the time" of people submitting feedback [1]. They certainly aren't going to make everyone happy - the "abolish it entirely" and the "needs to be more powerful" groups are going to have opposed views on pretty much anything they could do - so presumably by this logic one of those groups wasted its time participating even if they do implement a change?

[1] Not in the first 50 or so pages, anyway, or however long it took them to reach that conclusion. If that is the conclusion they've come to then it would be worth saying so and closing the thread at this point, though!
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Just because some comments were short and didn't require a great deal of effort doesn't mean that effort can't be wasted.

I agree that if Frontier decide not to re-work any feature of the game then they would not have, necessarily, wasted everyone's time with that thread, but that is not what I was saying. I was saying if Frontier choose to re-work a different key feature of the game instead of Ship Engineering and Material Gathering after asking for feedback in that thread then they will have been wasting everyone's time.

Whatever implementation of 'improvement' Frontier decides to go with for any re-work they are not going to please everyone, no. That doesn't invalidate anyone's input though or make it a waste of time. Just because your input doesn't get used does not make it a waste of time, it just means it wasn't considered the best way for them to go. If you don't provide your input though then it would never even get considered, so giving your opinion is never a waste of time.
 
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