Update 15, the Upcoming Feature Rework and More

[Riverside]

If this were true then it would mean they never had a specific rework in mind in the first place, and therefore haven't been, uh, re-working on it at all up to this point. Which to me would seem to imply that whatever rework they rework on, they won't be doing that much work on it and it might not be major. Which I hope isn't true but I can't argue with your logic here.

I think they really had Engineering in mind but the feedback was that engineering was mostly okay & just tweaking the drop tables for mats is something that can be done server side on the fly so the need for a dedicated major upheaval was gone. So I guess they are looking into what else that time could be put to.

Fingers crossed it's some sort of PvP (via the BGS). They got plenty of feedback from the PowerPlay Focused Feedback & a lot of that was that players don't want to feel forced into direct PvP but they do want to be able to pick a side & get stuck in without having to commit to a minimum level of 'grindy' activities. Might be called PowerPlay, might be called something else.

Just a guess.

 

[Fizzatron]

...and let's not forget about the EDO/EDH divide: it is just UNACCEPTABLE that we're still having 2 "live game" versions which are not able to share instancing.

So you are calling for Frontier to make Odyssey free?

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

@Riverside
PVP via the bgs won't happen because there are PVE groups.
One way to make it work is to have the PVP happen in a unpopulated system, where kills count, tied to something like a pirate base which has a window of oppertunity but is not permanent.
Having trade benefits, for stolen goods, would help help with rebuys as that will come with PVP, that would make it sustainable and something that could be done in PG / SOLO, if necessary, but not count in relation to the pirate base / system... maybe even a laundry that legitimises goods for better prices..
You could have a bleed through to local systems where the prices go up as well for a time but result in a temporary lockdown but it avoids PMF drama for the most part as their faction won't tank..
If these events are controled in a way to prevent bullying, that would probably help as well... so cooldowns, rotation and such.

 

[angusmadmac1]

If this were true then it would mean they never had a specific rework in mind in the first place, and therefore haven't been, uh, re-working on it at all up to this point. Which to me would seem to imply that whatever rework they rework on, they won't be doing that much work on it and it might not be major. Which I hope isn't true but I can't argue with your logic here.

But that's exactly what has happened fdev said there was going to be a major rework on something last year I believe it was meant to be out around u15 ? They then said oopsie we haven't even decided on what the major rework is so haven't started on it just before u15 dropped and they" may" get back to us by the end of this year on what the major rework may be and then that may drop sometime next year ????
It sounds a bit like consoles yeah sure we are working on it "honest guv" but we need to fix PC . Now it's yeah sure we have a major rework but we haven't started due to the Thargoid war . History repeats ??

 

[Rubbernuke]

They got plenty of feedback from the PowerPlay Focused Feedback

Sandros feedback (if thats what you refer to) was roughly 65- 70% in favour of Open based on the responses (yes, I counted them all in both Flash topic threads- this also discounted I don't care responses). Obsidian Ant also did a poll and of that (7.7k iirc) was 50% Open, 25% weighted and 25% no change. You also had a load of people come back or register to support the suggestions (something unheard of the other way).

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/powerplay-proposal.426940/

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/powerplay-proposal-part-2.430713/

I'm guessing FD (if they ever do it) will jettison the current Powerplay design because the BGS has become so well developed and that since we have high level conflict via Thargoids will add a BGS based Powerplay layer.

 

[Riverside]

I'm guessing FD (if they ever do it) will jettison the current Powerplay design because the BGS has become so well developed and that since we have high level conflict via Thargoids will add a BGS based Powerplay layer.

I'd favour a new layer of manipulation rather than overhauling powerplay, maybe something simpler like superpower pledges independent from or parallel to the current powers.

I think faction support has largely taken over the gameplay for the kind of players PP was intended to appeal to as far as the game designers are concerned, but the Thargoid stuff isn't player group vs player group, it's PvE. Difficult to see the appeal of Thargoids in politics though. Powerplay and faction support are adversarial play among players, Thargoid stuff is a common enemy to bring people together. I'd favour a way to oppose killing thargoids, negotiate some boundaries & make trade agreements but I don't see motivations aligning enough for them to become a power. Superpower maybe, if we make peace with them, establish territory boundaries & then slip into a cold war.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I'd favour a new layer of manipulation rather than overhauling powerplay, maybe something simpler like superpower pledges independent from or parallel to the current powers.

I think faction support has largely taken over the gameplay for the kind of players PP was intended to appeal to as far as the game designers are concerned, but the Thargoid stuff isn't player group vs player group, it's PvE. Difficult to see the appeal of Thargoids in politics though. Powerplay and faction support are adversarial play among players, Thargoid stuff is a common enemy to bring people together. I'd favour a way to oppose killing thargoids, negotiate some boundaries & make trade agreements but I don't see motivations aligning enough for them to become a power. Superpower maybe, if we make peace with them, establish territory boundaries & then slip into a cold war.

What I mean is, you take the new Thargoid border war generation bits, Goid expansion mechanics but remove the AI behind it and have players push instead- in effect making Powers a 'top level' faction that can flow into adjacent systems using enhanced BGS faction mechanics that go far beyond what we currently have. You now also have credible NPCs (as seen with the Glaives) which retasked with human ships is what NPCs need to be like for in system Powerplay patrols. You then use missions as Power 'action units' and remove the overtly simplistic PvE shoot or haul.

What this does is remove the need for arcane maths, and makes all conflicts super local and granular- with the added benefit that no expansion ruins the power by doing it, unlike now (hence the need for SCRAP to prevent 5C expansions).

 

[rootsrat]

I'd favour a new layer of manipulation rather than overhauling powerplay, maybe something simpler like superpower pledges independent from or parallel to the current powers.

I think faction support has largely taken over the gameplay for the kind of players PP was intended to appeal to as far as the game designers are concerned, but the Thargoid stuff isn't player group vs player group, it's PvE. Difficult to see the appeal of Thargoids in politics though. Powerplay and faction support are adversarial play among players, Thargoid stuff is a common enemy to bring people together. I'd favour a way to oppose killing thargoids, negotiate some boundaries & make trade agreements but I don't see motivations aligning enough for them to become a power. Superpower maybe, if we make peace with them, establish territory boundaries & then slip into a cold war.

Oh my Fargod, not ANOTHER layer please! These systems are already complex and interacting with each other with plenty of bugs. We really don't need yet another cog that can break in this machine...

 

[Riverside]

Oh my Fargod, not ANOTHER layer please! These systems are already complex and interacting with each other with plenty of bugs. We really don't need yet another cog that can break in this machine...

FDev will make mistakes implementing stuff whatever happens, people make mistakes. If you're not making mistakes you're not trying hard enough, and perfection is the enemy of good.

'We' don't really 'need' anything overhauling, I'm just speculating

And an extra layer of manipulation doesn't have to be complicated, nor does it have to be compulsory. It is what I'm hoping for though, and it could be made open only without disrupting existing well established playstyles.

 

[Northpin]

PEGI can always change the rating, as it did for Roblox in 2022 tho... in this case 7 to 16 could be a big jump, but let's be honest about PEGI (= Fortnite is 12 btw).

Maybe, but irrelevant to our case.
Horizons is PEGI7 and Odyssey is PEGI16
Mixing players is not happening and is unlikely to happen in the future.
Due to this discrepancy it's unlikely to ever have Odyssey folding in the base game like it happened in with Horizons and the Base game.

Honestly, i really have NO Idea why they released Odyssey as a DLC and not as a standalone game in the Elite shared galaxy

Well PEGI folks arnt exactly on the ball with enforcing stuff, i think Roblox holds the record for the most infringements and yet its still running.

O7

Depends on the country.
In UK PEGI is legally enforceable (there is legislation supporting and enforcing the ratings systems)
In my country PEGI is supported, but there is no legislation to enforce it (no specific legislation)

 

[Rebel Yell]

Maybe, but irrelevant to our case.
Horizons is PEGI7 and Odyssey is PEGI16
Mixing players is not happening and is unlikely to happen in the future.
Due to this discrepancy it's unlikely to ever have Odyssey folding in the base game like it happened in with Horizons and the Base game.

So. given it's pretty much unlikely they're going to drop completely EDH as there's a big players' base there (not considering the console plebs who keep coming to PC) the only one solution is to force EDH to be restricted in PEGI16... and btw my daughter plays both and she's well below the EDO PEGI limit go figure.

 

[aRJay]

I'd favour a new layer of manipulation rather than overhauling powerplay, maybe something simpler like superpower pledges independent from or parallel to the current powers.

I think faction support has largely taken over the gameplay for the kind of players PP was intended to appeal to as far as the game designers are concerned, but the Thargoid stuff isn't player group vs player group, it's PvE. Difficult to see the appeal of Thargoids in politics though. Powerplay and faction support are adversarial play among players, Thargoid stuff is a common enemy to bring people together. I'd favour a way to oppose killing thargoids, negotiate some boundaries & make trade agreements but I don't see motivations aligning enough for them to become a power. Superpower maybe, if we make peace with them, establish territory boundaries & then slip into a cold war.

I think Thargoids have a great place in politics, any politician who fails to get a sufficiently high popularity rating in any particular quarter gets ent to negotiate with the Thargoids.

 

[aRJay]

The feature I would love to see reworked is planet surface generation.

What I want is that surface features don’t change size and shape as you approach, I am more than half convinced that some of my collisions with the ground are down to it growing as I approached rather than I dipped too low. Details becoming clearer is great and stuff does look bigger as you get nearer but it does’t get bigger.

What I would like is a more consistent appearance of bios in respect to how far away I can see them, the other day I left one site heading for another of the same type I could see at a distance and another previously unseen site appeared halfway between the two just before I overflew it, the way bios pop into existence really breaks my immerosion.

 

[EdzUp]

The feature I would love to see reworked is planet surface generation.

What I want is that surface features don’t change size and shape as you approach, I am more than half convinced that some of my collisions with the ground are down to it growing as I approached rather than I dipped too low. Details becoming clearer is great and stuff does look bigger as you get nearer but it does’t get bigger.

What I would like is a more consistent appearance of bios in respect to how far away I can see them, the other day I left one site heading for another of the same type I could see at a distance and another previously unseen site appeared halfway between the two just before I overflew it, the way bios pop into existence really breaks my immerosion.

I was landing on a desert world yesterday for it to be crater ridden when i was out of glide

 

[Bandee]

Rework?

After 15 update :


you can't play properly in wing, sometimes you can't see one or the other player. We don't regularly end up in an instance, no matter what we do. We can't see each other during the battle, even though we are in wing, the thargoid battle has never been so unplayable, we were unlucky for 2 hours after many bugs and finally gave up. It wasn't like this before, it's like this now, we sending tickets and nothing happens, no one fixes it. To this day, no one has fixed the errors of the onfoot battles and their displays (the inscription "victory" does not disappear). You also have to deal with a quad wing synchronization, so it's very difficult to enjoy the game, several of my friends just left the game (yesterday) again because of the many bugs...

 

[ClaraRulesSpace]

Ironically its almost like a Guardian version of U14.

In frontiers defense, all of the puzzles presented in elite during the updates four and five years ago were never solved. Between braggadocia, info hoarding, and flat out laziness in regards for piecing together clues, and a bunch of incredibly well thought out puzzles were hardly scratched, and the solutions are full of supposition because people don’t like doing any real homework, unless it leads to combat.
They would rather glance at it, compare it to Egypt, and think they’ve solved some thing in their own mind.
NMS is boring and static and cartoonish. I tried to play that game for a month.
I bought a space game and the only thing space looking about it is my suit.
This is literally something that you would release for kids to keep them interested in space.
Your space stations are full of statues and your vacuum is purple. Haven’t tried star citizen, but NMS is definitely inferior. Release the biggest update if you want to, if your update looks like someone’s flower garden I’m probably going to get bored. No matter how much content is there. Just saying.

 

[Rubbernuke]

In frontiers defense, all of the puzzles presented in elite during the updates four and five years ago were never solved. Between braggadocia, info hoarding, and flat out laziness in regards for piecing together clues, and a bunch of incredibly well thought out puzzles were hardly scratched, and the solutions are full of supposition because people don’t like doing any real homework, unless it leads to combat.
They would rather glance at it, compare it to Egypt, and think they’ve solved some thing in their own mind.
NMS is boring and static and cartoonish. I tried to play that game for a month.
I bought a space game and the only thing space looking about it is my suit.
This is literally something that you would release for kids to keep them interested in space.
Your space stations are full of statues and your vacuum is purple. Haven’t tried star citizen, but NMS is definitely inferior. Release the biggest update if you want to, if your update looks like someone’s flower garden I’m probably going to get bored. No matter how much content is there. Just saying.

The problem being: if a puzzle is not solved, is too hard, requires co-ordination in a confused solo / PG / open game (i.e. requires it to satisfy everything and everyone) its going to largely be a waste of time in game and for the devs. Those puzzles were fantastic to watch on the forums but hell in game to do- if the same ten people solve them all the time, whats the point? NMS is an inch deep but its miles wide- ED has improved leaps and bounds but the day to day still feels the same, whatever you do.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

The problem being: if a puzzle is not solved, is too hard, requires co-ordination in a confused solo / PG / open game (i.e. requires it to satisfy everything and everyone) its going to largely be a waste of time in game and for the devs. Those puzzles were fantastic to watch on the forums but hell in game to do- if the same ten people solve them all the time, whats the point? NMS is an inch deep but its miles wide- ED has improved leaps and bounds but the day to day still feels the same, whatever you do.

Indeed - it's very easy to make a puzzle which doesn't get solved [1]. It's also not difficult for them to put together something which will be solved in a day or two where the main constraint on solving it quicker is flight time. Putting something reliably in-between is probably impossible.

[1] With the amount of tinfoil going round in Elite Dangerous, probably the easiest way to do this is not to add the puzzle in the first place, because people will still happily spend years trying to solve it: anyone remember the time someone noticed that if you encode the name of one of the inhabited systems with "RAXXLA" in a particular way you get "HEXEDIT" (well, "HEXEDI", anyway)?

 

[Rubbernuke]

Indeed - it's very easy to make a puzzle which doesn't get solved [1]. It's also not difficult for them to put together something which will be solved in a day or two where the main constraint on solving it quicker is flight time. Putting something reliably in-between is probably impossible.

[1] With the amount of tinfoil going round in Elite Dangerous, probably the easiest way to do this is not to add the puzzle in the first place, because people will still happily spend years trying to solve it: anyone remember the time someone noticed that if you encode the name of one of the inhabited systems with "RAXXLA" in a particular way you get "HEXEDIT" (well, "HEXEDI", anyway)?

This is why FD should have made the BGS more of what it is now earlier (condensing PP and the Goids) and made it far more proc gen but varied enough to negate the need for constant CGs (which become repetitive) and / or injected events that are dev intensive. In effect be like the old Elites, rather than trying to be a GaaS which FD seem to hate.

 

[Brrokk]

In frontiers defense, all of the puzzles presented in elite during the updates four and five years ago were never solved. Between braggadocia, info hoarding, and flat out laziness in regards for piecing together clues, and a bunch of incredibly well thought out puzzles were hardly scratched, and the solutions are full of supposition because people don’t like doing any real homework, unless it leads to combat.
They would rather glance at it, compare it to Egypt, and think they’ve solved some thing in their own mind.
NMS is boring and static and cartoonish. I tried to play that game for a month.
I bought a space game and the only thing space looking about it is my suit.
This is literally something that you would release for kids to keep them interested in space.
Your space stations are full of statues and your vacuum is purple. Haven’t tried star citizen, but NMS is definitely inferior. Release the biggest update if you want to, if your update looks like someone’s flower garden I’m probably going to get bored. No matter how much content is there. Just saying.

I'm not sure what you mean by puzzles. Among the game features I would call puzzles, I can't think of one that's not been solved.

Edit: unless you mean the location of Raxxla. My guess is that it's not in-game and so not finding it "solves" the puzzle. (But then I don't regard that as a real puzzle).