"upgrading" from Clipper to Python has been underwhelming so far
- Thread starter Iori
- Start date
agreed but using fixed requires placing oneself at increased risk while one refines ones piloting in order to be combat effective with em.
gimballed takes the danger out of the equation
Railguns. Or fixed cannons. depends on my mood.
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So I used to besmirch pilots who stuck turrets on Pythons, I'd pour on the ridicule and laugh at them "doing it wrong".....
A Little History:
Started with a trading Python 3 Large Fixed Beams, 2 Cannon, worked well, liked it a lot, the beams draining the capacitor didn't really bother me as most targets were shieldless or dead in 1 pass, it ran very hot (back then had the C Class PP).
I modified this build when I A Classed the PP, to 1 Large 2 Medium fixed beams and 2 large cannon, is a lot better than 3 large beams IMHO, in all departments (convergence, capacitor drainage, time till shields down on Condas etc).
Then I went into Assassinations as my main activity, I ran 2 large PA 1 gim. burst and 2 medium cannon, was very good at melting Pirate Kings (shields would fall in 2 salvos of PAs, or around 3s), then 1.3 introduced the instadodge bug and Condas and Pythons were dodging the instant I hit fire on the PAs, and 2/3rds of my shots were being avoided at anything but point blank. I loved my Large PA but they're worthless nowadays
So then I went for turrets (since the AI improved and the brat-packs increased in frequency) 2 medium beam turrets work better than 2 large beam turrets (hit the small targets more often, do not drain the capacitor dry like the large turrets do), 1 large beam turret and you can forget any other capacitor heavy drain weapon (like railguns).
So then I ran 2 fixed large burst, 1 large burst turret and 2 Hammer Rails, downgrading to burst allows me a few Hammer salvos (I can fire them until I melt) and the burst turret makes the Eagle squads less of a Pain in the Posterior to deal with.
Currently I've swapped the large bursts out for large pulse (as an experiment), but will probably go back to the bursts.
OT: You're doing something very wrong with the Python if you are feeling the Clipper is superior, something very wrong indeed.
And a Conda is just ridiculous, turns like a fighter and can tank better and hold more firepower than anything else, it's the noob-tube for players who avoid combat until they've grinded 600m in trade.
Every ship (other than the Courier) that I have in my fleet after my Python are there to spend money that would otherwise be spent on a Conda, because if I got a Conda I think that within a week of flying one I'd stop playing the game.....it's that OP and noobish.
A Little History:
Started with a trading Python 3 Large Fixed Beams, 2 Cannon, worked well, liked it a lot, the beams draining the capacitor didn't really bother me as most targets were shieldless or dead in 1 pass, it ran very hot (back then had the C Class PP).
I modified this build when I A Classed the PP, to 1 Large 2 Medium fixed beams and 2 large cannon, is a lot better than 3 large beams IMHO, in all departments (convergence, capacitor drainage, time till shields down on Condas etc).
Then I went into Assassinations as my main activity, I ran 2 large PA 1 gim. burst and 2 medium cannon, was very good at melting Pirate Kings (shields would fall in 2 salvos of PAs, or around 3s), then 1.3 introduced the instadodge bug and Condas and Pythons were dodging the instant I hit fire on the PAs, and 2/3rds of my shots were being avoided at anything but point blank. I loved my Large PA but they're worthless nowadays
So then I went for turrets (since the AI improved and the brat-packs increased in frequency) 2 medium beam turrets work better than 2 large beam turrets (hit the small targets more often, do not drain the capacitor dry like the large turrets do), 1 large beam turret and you can forget any other capacitor heavy drain weapon (like railguns).
So then I ran 2 fixed large burst, 1 large burst turret and 2 Hammer Rails, downgrading to burst allows me a few Hammer salvos (I can fire them until I melt) and the burst turret makes the Eagle squads less of a Pain in the Posterior to deal with.
Currently I've swapped the large bursts out for large pulse (as an experiment), but will probably go back to the bursts.
OT: You're doing something very wrong with the Python if you are feeling the Clipper is superior, something very wrong indeed.
And a Conda is just ridiculous, turns like a fighter and can tank better and hold more firepower than anything else, it's the noob-tube for players who avoid combat until they've grinded 600m in trade.
Every ship (other than the Courier) that I have in my fleet after my Python are there to spend money that would otherwise be spent on a Conda, because if I got a Conda I think that within a week of flying one I'd stop playing the game.....it's that OP and noobish.
I went from Python to Clipper as I didn't really have the cash to outfit the Python properly. Now I probably do, so this thread is interesting reading.
Been there myself.
Bought my Python too soon the first time because i could not resist a temporary discount in the Lave area. With C thrusters and power distributor it was no fun at all and i soon returned to my Clipper.
Rebought it when i had more cash and it slowly grew on me. Took a bit of time but now i really enjoy its sturdiness and the third large hardpoint is a nice bonus as well.
I also had to learn to use the secondary thrusters more selectively to keep smaller targets in my aim, something i never needed to do with the clipper (not that it would have helped much, the Clipper has awful lateral/horizontal thrusters). But i don't get the feeling i'd have to outfit turrets, sure some ships will try to outturn me all the time but i get them rather sooner than later. And i'm certainly not the best pilot around, can't even fly with FA:Off yet.
Granted i don't really do PvP, last week i had a very embarrassing encounter with a Viper Commander and for the life of me, i couldn't get him into my sights. We even joked on chat about that.
But there is something that still draws me back to my clipper. Sure, the python is a bit stronger on the offense, much more better at defense and landing on medium pads is a heaven-sent as well.
But just booming through a CZ in my clipper, turning on a dime and melting those pesky small fry, who always try to do their one trick pony evade dance, never gets old.
So by now they both got a place in my heart.
The Clipper for having a short burst of impressive and elegant fun, waltz in, start fireworks, waltz out.
But my Python would be my ship of choice for hairy situations in which you need a trusty companion that can take a bit of heat. Like being trapped behind enemy lines and embarking on a long and ardous journey to reach friendly space again.
As the trend with FD seems to be refits now, i'd really like to see what an Imperial Python would be capable of. Probably my dream ship :-D.
Bought my Python too soon the first time because i could not resist a temporary discount in the Lave area. With C thrusters and power distributor it was no fun at all and i soon returned to my Clipper.
Rebought it when i had more cash and it slowly grew on me. Took a bit of time but now i really enjoy its sturdiness and the third large hardpoint is a nice bonus as well.
I also had to learn to use the secondary thrusters more selectively to keep smaller targets in my aim, something i never needed to do with the clipper (not that it would have helped much, the Clipper has awful lateral/horizontal thrusters). But i don't get the feeling i'd have to outfit turrets, sure some ships will try to outturn me all the time but i get them rather sooner than later. And i'm certainly not the best pilot around, can't even fly with FA:Off yet.
Granted i don't really do PvP, last week i had a very embarrassing encounter with a Viper Commander and for the life of me, i couldn't get him into my sights. We even joked on chat about that.
But there is something that still draws me back to my clipper. Sure, the python is a bit stronger on the offense, much more better at defense and landing on medium pads is a heaven-sent as well.
But just booming through a CZ in my clipper, turning on a dime and melting those pesky small fry, who always try to do their one trick pony evade dance, never gets old.
So by now they both got a place in my heart.
The Clipper for having a short burst of impressive and elegant fun, waltz in, start fireworks, waltz out.
But my Python would be my ship of choice for hairy situations in which you need a trusty companion that can take a bit of heat. Like being trapped behind enemy lines and embarking on a long and ardous journey to reach friendly space again.
As the trend with FD seems to be refits now, i'd really like to see what an Imperial Python would be capable of. Probably my dream ship :-D.
Remember, once you get past a certain "ship point" in this game, which is about at the cobra... there really isn't an "upgrade". The one thing the devs at FD have done a REALLY good job with in this game, is ship balance. Once beyond the cobra, each ship ends up being somewhere in it's own "rock - paper - scissors" kind of dynamic with all the other ships.
In your specific example, you're comparing the clipper to the python. When you moved to the python, you sacrificed all the speed and pitch ability of the clipper, for the tankyness and firepower of the python. The dynamic I speak of is strange at times... a clipper can't killer an equally talented python pilot, because the python simply has too many SCBs, and can jump as soon as it wants. BUT.. the python can't kill an equally skilled pilot in the clipper, because the clipper can just run away at 440 m/s when it's getting low. The fact that it is mass locked is irrelivant, as it can reach 3km with just a couple boosts.
So what does this mean? In a PVE scenario, the clipper will be better in a REZ, where you typically going after targets that are a boost distance away, but the python is better if the targets are actively going after you, or close by, like a CZ. Personally, my PVE kills/hour are far higher in the clipper, just because it's ability to catch targets outweighs the slightly lower DPM, and since we are fighting NPCs, I find I don't really need the tankyness of the python because the NPCs are just terrible. So I guess in general, you could call their weaknesses and strengths, a wash.
Now, PVP is totally different. If a clipper were to fight a python, and both pilots want to fight to the death (i.e. nobody jumps away, and nobody boosts away)... the python can't loose.
It's just a different ship... not a better ship.
Not so sure how fast people progress nowadays and I'm pretty sure gimballs are great for farming Anaconda powerplants in RES whilst watching TV and reading tweets at the same time. If you use gimballs you're neglecting the Pythons main advantage of using fixed weapons and may indeed be better off using a Clipper.
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My Python handles most missions which it is perfectly suited for due to its ability to land on outposts. CZ & "Redistribution/Smash'nGrab'nRun'n" missions goes to the Anaconda with minor changes such as Cargo Scanner, Chaff, Hatch Breaker. No changes to weapons.
Fly dangerous
Fly dangerous
Cz Python ladotut
Gents,
Been reading this with interest. I'm more shoot em all pve player, finding czs most interesting. Vulture, Clipper, FDL progression to Python.
Not saying this is end it all or minmaxed but find lot of fun compared to Clipper or FDL. I can crash strong signal source and tell the story.
I have just b power plant, c shield all a boosters on utility slots.
Two medium beam turrets
Two gimballed bursts
and gimballed cannon under nose
and tons of SCBs No originality claimed.
Two pips to engine, four weapons. Tweak for speed and keep range under 1 klicks.
No issues with shields. Large cannon a pleasure to aim. Small stuff dies. Bigger ones goes boom.
Make second group of weapons without turrets to stop overheating.
Beam fits or pulse could be stronger. Fixed I find slower, but could be just me and mouse.
But man, Python is a beast.
Gents,
Been reading this with interest. I'm more shoot em all pve player, finding czs most interesting. Vulture, Clipper, FDL progression to Python.
Not saying this is end it all or minmaxed but find lot of fun compared to Clipper or FDL. I can crash strong signal source and tell the story.
I have just b power plant, c shield all a boosters on utility slots.
Two medium beam turrets
Two gimballed bursts
and gimballed cannon under nose
and tons of SCBs
No originality claimed.Two pips to engine, four weapons. Tweak for speed and keep range under 1 klicks.
No issues with shields. Large cannon a pleasure to aim. Small stuff dies. Bigger ones goes boom.
Make second group of weapons without turrets to stop overheating.
Beam fits or pulse could be stronger. Fixed I find slower, but could be just me and mouse.
But man, Python is a beast.
The Clipper is the most overrated ship in the game for the total outlay IMO - especially if you want to hang out in a CZ. You're better in a Vulture in a CZ's with a few A0 Shield Boosters giving you 600+ mj. You can sit there all day with that and not have to keep running away to charge your shields - not earning any money or kills - like you have to do in a Clipper.
And I'm happy to prove this to anyone who would like to join me in a CZ in their Clipper. I'll be in my CZ tuned Vulture, we'll join the same side and see who has to leave first.
Yeah I vultured RES for a long time then CZ when I got my clipper (wow) what a nice fly but damn those shields!
Was happier in the vulture for combat.
back on topic
Looking for my next ship up from my clipper and assumed python would be the way to go.
Now not so sure maybe rebuy a vulture?
but I am assuming with a python I can trade and fight whereas currently I run in the clipper.
but I love it's handeling!
- it looks as if you are looking for mass... i feel that a python really gets strong t 50% optimal mass. if you have that, there is not much to do
- i have really great exeriences with 2 medium turreted beams for the small ships - the distributor can run them forever, and 1 large burst and two large pulse for the big guys
- last experience: you need some faoff with the python in combat
... but maybe the python is not for you, as is the clipper? i loved the eagle in combat, but dislike the courier; many like the courier ... it's aso style of game at that level very much.
- i have really great exeriences with 2 medium turreted beams for the small ships - the distributor can run them forever, and 1 large burst and two large pulse for the big guys
- last experience: you need some faoff with the python in combat
... but maybe the python is not for you, as is the clipper? i loved the eagle in combat, but dislike the courier; many like the courier ... it's aso style of game at that level very much.
I've been flying around for the last two months in a mostly A-rated Python (apart from B6 shields) and can honestly say it does everything I need it to do. Carries loads of cargo, docks at outposts, great shields, great weapons with hard-point convergence, lots of DPS, good fuel tank and decent jump range with a lower weighted setup.
However I am going back to a Clipper. I will admit that the Clipper is a inferior ship to the Python in many ways but it does have certain things going for it such as speed, maneuverability, looks and fun.
For those who would recommend going to a Python and say it is a great ship, I completely agree but the Python felt to me like a tool: functional and a bit cold.
The Clipper is a more of a play thing: nice looking, fun and a pleasant place to be in. And the speed and noise!
I know it can't land at outposts, has the target profile of a small moon, has shields made out of paper, a tiny fuel tank and non-existent lateral thrusters (plus a number of others things I can't bring to mind right now). Despite of all these things every time I go onto another ship I miss it.
Don't know what it is, it just has a certain something I can't find in other ships and at the end of it Elite is a game, not a chore, so you should be enjoying yourself in whatever ship makes you happy.
Whenever I had the Clipper and was looking through the bulletin boards and was annoyed by the constant lucrative smuggling missions to Outposts or CG where I couldn't find nearby large ports, I just had to gun it out of the letterbox, drift the clipper around at full speed and boost away and all that annoyance just disappeared.
However I am going back to a Clipper. I will admit that the Clipper is a inferior ship to the Python in many ways but it does have certain things going for it such as speed, maneuverability, looks and fun.
For those who would recommend going to a Python and say it is a great ship, I completely agree but the Python felt to me like a tool: functional and a bit cold.
The Clipper is a more of a play thing: nice looking, fun and a pleasant place to be in. And the speed and noise!
I know it can't land at outposts, has the target profile of a small moon, has shields made out of paper, a tiny fuel tank and non-existent lateral thrusters (plus a number of others things I can't bring to mind right now). Despite of all these things every time I go onto another ship I miss it.
Don't know what it is, it just has a certain something I can't find in other ships and at the end of it Elite is a game, not a chore, so you should be enjoying yourself in whatever ship makes you happy.
Whenever I had the Clipper and was looking through the bulletin boards and was annoyed by the constant lucrative smuggling missions to Outposts or CG where I couldn't find nearby large ports, I just had to gun it out of the letterbox, drift the clipper around at full speed and boost away and all that annoyance just disappeared.
I've flown a Clipper for a couple of months and a week ago upgraded to a Python. It's almost all A-spec'd except the power plant that is a 7B one, and, really, I wouldn't go back to the Clipper. I loved my Clipper and will certainly get another one when I have so many credits that I don't know what to do with them, but, for me, the Python is much better than the Clipper. The Clipper is faster and looks a lot better than the old school design of the Python. My setup also allowed me slightly longer jumps. But the comparison stops there. It all depends on the type of weapons you put on. I put the same setup on the Python than I had on the Clipper, which is 3 large gimbaled beams and 2 medium gimbaled pulse. On the Clipper, I had 2 large gimbaled beams and 2 medium gimbaled pulse, which is pretty similar. On both the Clipper and the Python, after firing for a bit, with 3 pips to the weapons, the beams start overheating. I see no difference between the 2. BTW, the Clipper was all A-spec'd. So, all in all, it's pretty much the same, except that with the Python, I have one more large beam to fire. I usually fry an Eagle or a Viper in one pass, that is, when it's coming at me, firing on it in one long burst will very often destroy the little ship. I've never experienced this with the Clipper. It was good but not as good as the Python. Plus, for a slightly smaller jump, I get almost twice the cargo space on the Python than I had on the Clipper. Finally, the Python can land anywhere which is not the case for the Clipper.
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Well, not everybody is able to aim while keeping an eye on the enemy ship position and heading, the capacitor, the weapons and so on! I tried a fixed beam on my Python and was just not able to hit regularly so I went back with a gimbaled one. It's less effective, heat faster and uses more power but, for me, it's worth it since the fixed beam for me was not helping much. I'm not highly skilled but I keep practicing, so, maybe one day, I'll go with fixed weapons and will never look back!
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The Clipper is good for fun-flying and fighting to thrilling music. It's kind of risky to use in combat, because of the poor shields (even weaker than its tiny cousin the Courier!) but definitely worth keeping around.
You can offset the original poor shield generator with a prismatic shield generator. That's what I had on the Clipper (and now on the Python). They're heavier, uses more power but an A5 prismatic shield offers roughly the same protection than a regular A6.
Well - the problem is that you won't hit with all guns when using gimballs or turrets unless you're in the position to hit with an all fixed setup anyway.
Combine that with the damage reduction for gimballed and turreted weapons and you're better off with fixed weapons on a Python most of the time. On ships with bad weapon convergence like the Clipper, using G/T is pretty much a necessity unless you go for asymmetric setups really needing time to get used to imho.
So for a combat loadout, there is no gain in using a Python over a Clipper if you use gimballs/turrets on both. The thing that makes the Python shine over the Clipper (for me of course) is its ability to use all fixed weapons.
If you don't trade and use G/T anyway, by all means go for a Clipper.
Anyway - I'm intrigued - never really played ED not using VR, but I thought the default monitor view always enables you to see the scanner, power management and weapons at the same time(?).
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i can't follow you here. my medium turreted beam lasers on my python hit targets above and even slightly behind me, which i couldn't with my large fixed and my large gimballed pulses.
It depends - using a med and large fixed cannon on the right whilst using a med and small fixed beam on the left used to work when I last flew a Clipper. However that was a very short period in late December last year, so some factors might have changed.
Well - I only have Anaconda footage uploaded atm and spare me, the internet and mankind to upload more of the same rubbish using a Python - but all fixed on a Conda works for both - big and small whilst being a lousy, drunk shot.
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Oh, you see everything on the monitor. But I can't keep an eye on the enemy's ship while glancing at his distance, checking my capacitor, my shield, my speed, etc. I just can't. So, every little fraction of a second I'm distracted in adjusting my speed or checking to see what the enemy ship's speed is, he's already out of the center gun sight. So, with gimbals, even if the enemy ship is no longer dead center, I can keep firing.
Maybe I should try to fit another fixed beam in the large central hard point and try to use it, but, my previous experience was not positive. I've never been a real good fps performer, anyway, so, maybe it's me...
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