General Use current narrative to refit Type-7 for medium pads

[varonica]

But in the context of having dismissed the value of comparison. It's much easier to say "X is a damn good Y ship" when you've explicitly decided not to compare it to other ships that are objectively better than it. I know you're a reasonable type, I'm therefore a bit confused by this take.

The entire problem with that argument is that then in the end it leaves only 3 possible ships in the game, 1 small ship, 1 medium ship and 1 large ship because all the rest are redundant, you just need the best small ship and scrap everything else, the best medium ship and scrap everything else and the best large ship and scrap everything else.

The only possible responce ot that argument is to get rid of the Type 7 altogether because there are better ships and it's therefore redundant. Why bother shrinking the Type 7 to a medium pad when there's already a medium ship that's much better than it in every way? Just get rid of it completely.

 

[Fake Newts]

The entire problem with that argument is that then in the end it leaves only 3 possible ships in the game, 1 small ship, 1 medium ship and 1 large ship because all the rest are redundant

Yes. This is precisely the problem, and why I am saying I would like better balance. I love the quirky/lame duck ships and do fly them from time to time regardless but from a design point of view it'd be better if there were balanced strengths and weaknesses that encouraged their use.

Why bother shrinking the Type 7 to a medium pad when there's already a medium ship that's much better than it in every way?

If it were a medium it would have more cargo than a Python for hauling to/from outposts, thereby giving it (something of) a niche, then whether it was enough more to make it an interesting choice is a matter for tweaking. It wouldn't make it a better combat ship than the Python but that's not the point. I'm not going to pretend balancing ships would be easy, and in some cases it may involve the creation of new roles - sanctioned racing for example to incentivise the use of smalls.

 

[varonica]

Yes. This is precisely the problem, and why I am saying I would like better balance. I love the quirky/lame duck ships and do fly them from time to time regardless but from a design point of view it'd be better if there were balanced strengths and weaknesses that encouraged their use.

If it were a medium it would have more cargo than a Python for hauling to/from outposts, thereby giving it (something of) a niche, then whether it was enough more to make it an interesting choice is a matter for tweaking. It wouldn't make it a better combat ship than the Python but that's not the point. I'm not going to pretend balancing ships would be easy, and in some cases it may involve the creation of new roles - sanctioned racing for example to incentivise the use of smalls.

No, because you are shrinking it, you want to shrink it and keep the cargo capacity the same? What happened to balance? You now have a smaller ship in dimensions that now carries more than larger medium ships.

 

[Fake Newts]

No, because you are shrinking it, you want to shrink it and keep the cargo capacity the same? What happened to balance? You now have a smaller ship in dimensions that now carries more than larger medium ships.

You realise the game, tonnage and dimensions of ships are... fictional, right? You're misconstruing the word 'balance' in this context.

There are numerous tweaks that could be done model-wise that would keep its design while fitting it into a med pad - lowering the height of the landing gear would be a start. This is academic though as you and I both know Frontier won't do this. I am not the OP of this thread and I am more interested in balance in general than the specific medium-padding of a T7, that would be one way to approach balancing it in the context of the game as live.

 

[nanite2000]

No, because you are shrinking it, you want to shrink it and keep the cargo capacity the same? What happened to balance? You now have a smaller ship in dimensions that now carries more than larger medium ships.

No one really cares about the exterior dimensions of a ship being directly tied to its internal volume for such a small change like this. Did anyone get upset when FDev massively increased the cargo capacity of the Type-9 and yet kept it's exterior dimensions the same? Did it unbalance the game?

Why would this be any different?

As @Fake Newts said - keeping the cargo capacity the same size would actually give you a choice of medium ships to choose from , something we are lacking in the medium ship range. The Type-7 for pure cargo capacity, the Python for combat/trade, etc...

Throw in the Imperial Clipper while you're at it and now you have several medium ships each with different strengths and weaknesses that you would actually get some good variety of choice at medium ship level, rather than the 'Python is King' situation we have now.

 

[Fake Newts]

Given it can sometimes be frustrating attempting to have conversations about game balance when there's constant equivocation and misunderstanding regarding what the term actually means, I'm going to link some quick resources (despite being fairly confident nobody will watch/read them):

Source: https://youtu.be/WXQzdXPTb2A
Here's a fairly concise video explaining it, for the YouTube averse here's an article. https://learn.canvas.net/courses/3/pages/level-12-dot-0-game-balance

 

[Fake Newts]

Type-9

The T9 is a good example, it's in a pretty decent spot since the balance pass - carries potentially more cargo while shielded than a Cutter and is simpler/cheaper to obtain and run, but lacks the speed, firepower and durability which means the Cutter is still a very strong choice for hauling. People can legitimately choose one or other for bulk trade (edit: more legitimate choice = better/more interesting game). Is balance absolutely perfect between these ships? No, and arguably perfect balance in a game as broad as this is not really possible or even desirable, but it's clearly a better situation than T7 : Python.

 

[Northpin]

As always, I support making the following ships fit on a medium pad:

• Type-7
• Imperial Clipper
• Orca

Alternatively, allow a way for them to dock at outposts.

Yep, this.
Of course with no altering of their current traits.
T7 would need to be a little less tall
Clipper would ne to be less wide (by quite a margin tho)
Orca would need no adjustments - its dimensions fit the medium pads.

Also T6 made available for small pads (iirc it's in the same spot regarding small pads as T7 is regarding medium pads - a bit too tall)
Sure, this is less important since there are no small-pads only destinations, but it may still be useful in the future (or for trading at outposts given the medium pad limitation in outposts)

 

[AMX-008 GaZowmn]

Like I mentioned before, one option would be allowing these ships that actually fit in the area of a smaller landing pad to be able to land or dock externally, but not allowing them to enter the internal dock. The game already has some considerations in this regards, allowing you access to most services, minus livery, shipyard & outfitting, which do require going into the internal dock.

In short, allow ships that fit in smaller landing pads to land & dock only on the surface, restricting their access to the internal dock and services that are only available there. That way ships like the Type-7 would be allowed to dock externally in outposts medium pads, enabling to take/complete missions there, buy/sell commodities, pick passengers, etc., but not allowed to use the livery, shipyard & outfitting services, since the ship is too tall for the internal dock where those particular services are available.