Compared to some MMO-forums I've had the misfortune to visit, this one is the pinnacle of civilisation. I don't say there's no toxicity, but I think there's just the minimum of toxicity one has to cope with in any society at all. I mean, even the carebears have their grumpy bear...
We Need to be Better as a Community
- Thread starter Gavin786
- Start date
Sounds like the perfect candidate to be volunteered to remove his gasmark first.
Yep lots of that around.
I agree with you that an adult audience and participants would be the utopian situation.
There is just one small problem with that: Reality is not like that.
Now, how should we go about to handle this situation?
Ban the little rascals to the newbie areas of the forum?
Or change the conformation process into something that is a bit more plastic and fluid. Able to take care of the toxic situations without over moderation? (encapsulation, dislocation etc)
I do not argue that all kids, no matter how <situated>, should go and learn basic argumentation skills. It is not realistic to assume it can be the norm for a PG forum.
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First off, I have to be honest and admit that I haven’t read all of the posts.
I love you guys n gals, getin all toxic over toxicity
Cmdrs post here for 3 reasons, to ask for help, to impart wisdom, and to have a rant.
I recently saw a wall of rant described as ‘heat sink deployed’
These ‘heat sinks’ are the ones that cause the problems, because the OP is already irate. Any offer of advice will trigger chaff , then hardpoints are deployed.
Solution... I don’t know, I just wanted to add to the chaos.. o7 cmdrs
Type dangerous and gg
I love you guys n gals, getin all toxic over toxicity
Cmdrs post here for 3 reasons, to ask for help, to impart wisdom, and to have a rant.
I recently saw a wall of rant described as ‘heat sink deployed’
These ‘heat sinks’ are the ones that cause the problems, because the OP is already irate. Any offer of advice will trigger chaff , then hardpoints are deployed.
Solution... I don’t know, I just wanted to add to the chaos.. o7 cmdrs
Type dangerous and gg
The most toxic posts are from the author of the thread you refer to, the person you are supposedly defending. I was going to list a bunch of offensive quotes from the OP, but instead I'll just leave the link and let discerning folk see for themselves:
Strong suspicion that this game has a hacker problem
So, I have a strong suspicion that this game has a hacker problem. I went to participate in the community goal this week for the first time in a long time. An going back two days ago and the mission board did not have a active community goal at the Lucent Embrace. It just ended yesterday so...
The most toxic posts are from the author of the thread you refer to, the person you are supposedly defending. I was going to list a bunch of offensive quotes from the OP, but instead I'll just leave the link and let discerning folk see for themselves:
Strong suspicion that this game has a hacker problem
So, I have a strong suspicion that this game has a hacker problem. I went to participate in the community goal this week for the first time in a long time. An going back two days ago and the mission board did not have a active community goal at the Lucent Embrace. It just ended yesterday so...forums.frontier.co.uk
Not even a new player either, unless you consider a new player to have been around only since 2015...
And literally all of the toxicity thrown around in that thread was either instigated by, or indeed thrown by the OP. As soon as people suggested that no, hacking wasn't the problem in this case he suddenly became the expert and everyone that disagreed with him was a fanboy, wrong or a troll.
The toxicity he suffered was down to his own doing and inability to receive back that which he had flung.
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Then who else is allowing it? Not trying to be thick here, just a question
I mean I'm hitting report buttons once in a while, and up till now without adding much arguments, most of them where acted upon accordingly. Do you hit report when you read something that crosses a border?
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FWIW, I've seen some toxic crap on this forum in the past, even from moderators. But that was many months if not years ago. I think the forum today is much more civil than it used to be. And yes, I've been toxic on occasion. I once told someone, "You put the 'more' in 'moron'." That simple post got me banned for a week, so the mods do moderate. If you are truly offended by a specific post, click the "Report" link, that's what it is there for.
Lol, I missed this one in the OP, granted, there was a lot of stuff in there...
I absolutely do not share this opinion. Again, report stuff, argue why you think it crosses a border, add a tad of context and mods will act upon it when they agree with you. If they don't you are wrong, for its 'their' board.
Not too sure about that.
When something is new, you'll get a small number of early-adopters who become knowledgeable about that thing and then, as it becomes more popular, you'll get more and more people joining the community and they're happy to accept what they're told by the community's "aristocracy".
As this continues, however, the majority of people will gain the same, or greater, level of knowledge about the subject - often conflicting with existing understanding - and that creates a community that's less acquiescent to the views of the community's "aristocracy".
If somebody's intent on maintaining the status quo that can create hostility, as people who've gained a better understanding of the thing dispute existing opinions, and lead to a feeling that the community is less than it was.
In fact, it's actually more than it was - it's just that the "aristocracy" no longer play the essential role they once did.
A smart person will, of course, realise that they don't have a monopoly on understanding, that newer members of a community are likely to bring new insight, and then a community can continue to grow as a happy place.
If, OTOH, a person is determined to maintain the status quo, they can end up feeling like a comunity has become hostile, unfriendly and something that they no longer wish to be part of.
The forums used to be really really friendly. I've seen posts where the OP was ranting about how frustrating the game was, cussing and showing open hostility to any replies, and for those replies being understanding as to how the OP felt, give some solid advice to work around the problem, and then for the OP to calm down then show his appreciation for the help
If you haven't thrown down your controller in disgust, then you haven't experienced all Elite: Dangerous has to offer <grin>
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What it really comes down to for me is that there's people you disagree with. Some people will make an argument and talk about why their opinion is the way it is. And other people will have their opinion and wield it like a bludgeon.
The clearest example in recent memory is ARX. There were basically two camps before ARX came out: "ARX is a bad idea" and "Let's see how it works", to paraphrase.. The former made up their mind before they even interacted or created an informed opinion. The latter were waiting to learn more before forming a strong opinion.
The people who already had decided that ARX was a "scheme" aren't going to change their opinion, their mind was made up before it was even real. And the accusations that went along with it were wild, that FD would just take all ARX away and steal your money, that Tactical Graphite and Ice were taken away so they could be sold for more, that ARX was some trick to fool everyone else into spending all of their money.. It was all nonsense, predicated on vague claims that didn't really reference any real thing, just words to give the appearance of reason.
There are people you can disagree with and still have a conversation. And then there are the people who hold their opinion so sacred that they cannot imagine even being forced to justify it.
Sure, the forums have people who literally do not even play the game and only come here to complain. And sure, we have people who you just know look at every topic as an opportunity to slip some snide negative comment about the game. People who think they're too good for the game and want everyone to know it.
But they only seem so numerous because they create so much noise.
A fine sentiment OP, which I generally agree with. I think we could all be a bit more patient and less reactionary with each other.
Unfortunately, your post is rather undermined by the thread you refer to, where the newbie who started the thread is clearly the instigator of most of the toxicity and name-calling.
forums.frontier.co.uk
Unfortunately, your post is rather undermined by the thread you refer to, where the newbie who started the thread is clearly the instigator of most of the toxicity and name-calling.
Strong suspicion that this game has a hacker problem
So, I have a strong suspicion that this game has a hacker problem. I went to participate in the community goal this week for the first time in a long time. An going back two days ago and the mission board did not have a active community goal at the Lucent Embrace. It just ended yesterday so...
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Y'know, this is ridiculous.
Looking here, it's clear you think that the person who started that thread was some sort of victim of anything but his own ignorance. And here you are chastising everyone else, but I think you and the OP of that other thread have a lot in common in that you both started a thread without the benefit of really knowing what you were talking about.
Somebody posts something nonsensical and full of wild accusations and you jab your finger at the community for not cradling his head and supporting his delusions. How dare people tell him he's wrong about the things he's wrong about? And then you tell him his suspicions are correct, and do nothing to back that up, thus contributing nothing.
The long and short of it is you agree with him and you are aghast that other people don't. But you're here trying to hold a lecture?
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I think there's a couple of different issues there, but they're all related to the same thing.
Sure, there's people who're just flat-out bolshie.
Maybe they're hacked-off with ED or maybe they get their jollies from forum PvP.
Whatev's.
The thing is, if we're going to aspire to be a community that allows all opinions - naive ones, factually inaccurate ones, biased ones etc - then we can't allow ourselves to become a community that censors critical opinions.
Why not?
I mean, theoretically, the mod's could allow people to post dumb ideas, nonsense and white-knighting but whenever somebody posts anything critical they could remove it, right?
Well, no.
The problem is that it's almost always possible to find something critical, "offensive" or "toxic" about any opinion.
And then, if you're going to enforce a "non-toxicity" policy, it becomes a competition to see who can report the other guy first - and who the mod's decide to side with.
And, when that happens, you certainly will end-up with a community where only certain POV's are acceptable and where half (or more) the current membership will be unwelcome.
And that'd be a bad thing.
Maybe it's a bit harsh but we should all understand that an internet forum is a public platform and if you're going to publish your opinions on a public platform you need to be prepared to accept criticism of those opinions.
Oh don't do that - the Newcomer's sub-forum is a place just oozing with warmth and tolerance - hygge as they say up in the chilly northern regions.
I think the biggest issue is that some people their opinions are as valid as everyone else's. That having an opinion means they are granted a holy shield, for thy opinion is sacred.
Everyone can have their own opinion. Everyone else do whatever they want with it, too. Some people are so narrowly focused on themselves they have an opinion, see somebody else with an opposing opinion and gasp, "Excuse me maybe you didn't realize that I had an opinion?"
But ignorant opinions that just serve to shield a fragile ego aren't worth much. Uninformed opinions that are just mired in bias are rubbish. Not all opinions are equal.
It's our responsibility as a community to point to nonsense opinions and call them out. Point to wrong claims. Dispute made-up facts. Correct falsehoods. If somebody thinks that's toxic, they can make this exact thread, I guess.
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Stealthie said it all for me 
The question everyone needs to ask themselves before logging onto the internet (Or logging into an MMO or going out in Public for that matter!) is -
Am I sooooo correct that anyone who disagrees with must be wrong and should be punished!
Or...
Is there even the slightest possibility that i could be wrong about something and that through debate I may elevate myself or someone else's knowledge?
There is a line that shouldn't be crossed, but that's what mods are for.
To expect debate and disagreement from people who have paid money for a product shouldn't be that surprising really...(And it can be pretty entertaining!) Lets just attempt to keep it constructive...ish
The question everyone needs to ask themselves before logging onto the internet (Or logging into an MMO or going out in Public for that matter!) is -
Am I sooooo correct that anyone who disagrees with must be wrong and should be punished!
Or...
Is there even the slightest possibility that i could be wrong about something and that through debate I may elevate myself or someone else's knowledge?
There is a line that shouldn't be crossed, but that's what mods are for.
To expect debate and disagreement from people who have paid money for a product shouldn't be that surprising really...(And it can be pretty entertaining!) Lets just attempt to keep it constructive...ish
Don't get me started...
Funny how real-life often mirrors what's going on in a small community like this one.
We've currently got, for example, radical ethnic groups claiming that stuff like science and history are "racist" and should be erased so those ethnic groups can feature more equally in a do-over.
By the same token, we just had a thread where it was suggested that ED's galaxy might be reset so there'd be more "undiscovered" stuff for people to find.
In other examples, we have politicians who glibly label everybody who oppose them as all sorts of unpleasant things and then, when they get called unpleasant things (Anna Soubry, I'm looking at you) they demand the police prosecute their critics and that criticism of them should be banned.
Which, obviously, rather reflects the subject here.
I absolutely agree that all opinions aren't equal.
I'd suggest that everybody has an equal right to offer an opinion but that the reception an opinion recieves will be based on merit, and that shouldn't be something that's interfered with - as long as criticism remains civil.
And, of course, if criticism isn't civil then those comments should also be subject to criticism too.