We Need to be Better as a Community

AirHead101

AirHead101
Gavin786 said:
I posted this in response to another thread, but I think the message is important so I am making it a main thread also, was written in response to a new player who made a bit of a mistake about what he was saying then got a lot of negativity about it :

Having read a lot now of what has been posted in reply to your post, I have the following comments.

It is really not right all the toxicity you have had to endure, and I totally do not accept it. You made a mistake by thinking <whatever not really important>. You said on your post that you were just a casual player. All of the <> you are getting is not right. Just another example of toxicity on this forum. You made a mistake, so what? No excuse for nastiness from those who know better. And we have all been beginners/casual level at one point.

Cant we be better than this, as a community ?

How do you think the OP is going to feel, next time he wants to post something?

Maybe he is going to think twice about it now. Is that REALLY what we want? For voices to be silenced because of all the toxicity that gets thrown around? Because that is for sure what is happening. People need a VERY thick skin to stick around this forum. I know many CMDRs who just wont post here for that very reason, they are fed up with <> that gets thrown their way just for voicing opinion.

Now I am not going to call anyone out, I dont want to embarrass or provoke anyone, and I dont want to get yet another warning for "flaming" aka defending myself when toxicity gets thrown my way.

OP has been put into the "Victim's Dilemma", yet again. Harsh responses elicit both you and toxic poster get a warning and banned from posting to the thread for 3 days + posts removed. Do nothing and mods will just ignore those toxic comments. Happens a lot in life and I call it the "Victim's Dilemma". Someone does something to you and its not serious enough for authority to care but you do something back then you become the criminal and suddenly whole thing is taken seriously. It is a lose-lose scenario.

So what is the solution to all of this, in the context of the Elite: Dangerous official forum ?

The mods have no will to solve it. One can see on the very first page of this thread comments that are clearly disparaging to the OP and his post, and the next a post in response to this thread by a Mod. The moderation team read this comment yet chose to do nothing. Frontier knows these forums have a bad reputation for toxicity yet choose to do nothing.

It is up to us, THE COMMUNITY, to do what we can to solve this problem of chronic toxicity, and what I propose is this :

1. SPEAK UP. If you see someone being denigrated, tone policed, baited, insulted or any of the other words that just mean using words to hurt another person then : SAY SOMETHING. Say it is not right and that you do not agree with it. There is a massive difference between disagreeing with someone thence attacking the premise or logic of their arguments and attacking THAT PERSON as a person. They are alike, yet not alike. Confuse them not.

2. NO NAMING AND SHAMING. This does absolutely no good and just causes fights/flame wars. Dont do it. People might also have a good motive and just made a mistake in their wording, you dont know. Dont call people out, it is just repeating the whole cycle we are trying to break.

3. GIVE THE REASONS WHY TOXICITY ON THESE FORUMS IS A BAD THING
3.1 It is discouraging people from having a voice. Many people are thin skinned and end up banned or just leave these forums because of this. Every voice adds value.
3.2 It is giving these forums a bad reputation. People prefer to post on reddit or face book rather than here and who can blame them? We should be an example to other communities. Compare and contrast to Kerbal Space Program official forums.
3.3 It is causing a lot of anger and bad feeling. Many people who aught be fast friends because of strong shared interest and passion are falling out or getting enmity.
3.4 It makes the forums a generally nasty place, one must always wonder when posting how someone is going to attack, knowing any defence of oneself is likely to elicit a warning
3.5 I know most people dont give a dam about anyone but themselves. But for the odd few who are the exception, knowing the toxicity is upsetting people and making others unhappy aught be reason enough to want to clean these forums up.
3.6 And probably many, many other reasons, I leave it to the ingenium of the individual to work out, state of affairs is good for no-one.

And I know many people will say it cant be done, the will is not there, we wont get everyone on board, etc, etc. It only takes a few respected CMDRs to consistently lend voice when they notice toxicity for things to change for the better. As it was rightly said "One carat of diamond is worth several tons of sand; we dont need the majority". We should be an example in space sim community, not a toxic cess pit.

CMDR Gavin786
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good luck wit dat brootha
 

M00ka

M00ka
Bryan K said:
The community could certainly do with less arrogant OPs trying to dictate forum policy, that’s for sure.

When the first word is “We” in an OP, you know it’s gonna be bad.
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That's not fair Bryan. There could be a multitude of valid reasons why someone would start an OP with 'We' instead of 'I';
  • They could have multiple personalities
  • They may be using the ROYAL 'WE'
  • They could be French and abbreviated the first word
  • They could legitimately be speaking on behalf of a group, consortium, collective, commune, team, clan, squadron, alliance, pack or any other collective term, whether real or imaginary.
  • They could be talk out of their Arx
Without those talking on our behalf we won't know what we are thinking, saying, agreeing to or rallying against :D
 

[VR] Mad Mike

[VR] Mad Mike
Wow and I thought I liked long posts :).

Personally I always try to be somewhat polite even if I disagree however there is definitely a case for reaping what you sow.
People can post things and be wrong and won't get toxic replies.... But if someone posts something and is snarky about it.... Then they will likely get it back in spades esp if they are wrong to begin with.
 

CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost

C
Bryan K said:
The community could certainly do with less arrogant OPs trying to dictate forum policy, that’s for sure.

When the first word is “We” in an OP, you know it’s gonna be bad.
Click to expand...


M00ka said:
…
Without those talking on our behalf we won't know what we are thinking, saying, agreeing to or rallying against :D
Click to expand...

How do I write about what I think a group of people that includes me - for example the members of this forum - could do better? Isn't that exactly the use case of "we"? With "we" indicating that the group addressed includes the person talking/writing?

I don't think that the use of "we" automatically indicates that somebody is talking on the behalf of others or indicates that others of the group addressed by "we" are thinking.
But I might use "we" in a wrong way - hence the question.
 

M00ka

M00ka
CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost said:
How do I write about what I think a group of people that includes me - for example the members of this forum - could do better? Isn't that exactly the use case of "we"? With "we" indicating that the group addressed includes the person talking/writing?

I don't think that the use of "we" automatically indicates that somebody is talking on the behalf of others or indicates that others of the group addressed by "we" are thinking.
But I might use "we" in a wrong way - hence the question.
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Can't answer your question Commander Lichtfrost as I don't know whether you are proclaiming to speak on my behalf, speak on behalf of the entire community, or as I said, just using the royal 'We'. There are multiple ways of addressing a post that do not use the ambiguous use of the word 'we'. Maybe starting the thread 'My fellow Forumites' so some such term might be better than just assuming you can include everyone in your statement.

After the angst after a certain group of individuals decided they could speak on behalf of the entire community in an Open Letter, I would be very careful about speaking for anyone else except myself. If you think you can speak on behalf of anyone else, I would recommend you make it very clear you have their permission.

Hint, see the Disclaimer in my signature!
 

CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost

C
M00ka said:
Can't answer your question Commander Lichtfrost as I don't know whether you are proclaiming to speak on my behalf, speak on behalf of the entire community, or as I said, just using the royal 'We'.
…
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Thanks for the response.
I'm German and sometimes I stumble over "false friends" and that "we" might be such a case as from normal use in German I would never come to the conclusion that the person using "we" is talking on my behalf or that of the entire group addressed. The way I use "we" is to indicate that I include myself in the group I'm addressing.
Looks like English is different in that regard.
Good to know. Makes things a bit more difficult and will probably require more words.
 

Rat Catcher

Rat Catcher
CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost said:
Thanks for the response.
I'm German and sometimes I stumble over "false friends" and that "we" might be such a case as from normal use in German I would never come to the conclusion that the person using "we" is talking on my behalf or that of the entire group addressed. The way I use "we" is to indicate that I include myself in the group I'm addressing.
Looks like English is different in that regard.
Good to know. Makes things a bit more difficult and will probably require more words.
Click to expand...
The 'we' in the title appears to refer to the community as a whole - but could have been worded differently to remain inclusive without the 'ownership' of the word 'we' - English is a language that has plenty of grammar minefields, made worse by 'adaptation' of the language as spoken in English speaking countries - or English as a non-native language (which more often tends to be of the correct grammar structure if taught by a 'purist') as the translation can lose the original language meaning due to a lack of options in English.

But even as a well-educated native speaker, I'll still make errors which any pedant would be happy to illustrate :)

Not a dig @M00ka - I know what you were saying :)
 
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Shinji Ikari

Shinji Ikari
Red Anders said:
On that, modding anything online is a thankless task but gaming forums are probably in the worst 25%. I've been on forums with great mods and forums with terrible mods (a lot of forums probably have both kinds) but it's something I know I'd never do in 10,000 years.
Click to expand...

IDK, 4Chan and variants swallow gaming forums in toxicity and often flat out illegal content.
 
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