We Shouldn't be Bound to Animals Only Found in Zoos

[LN]

Frontier was talking about this game

Zoo Tycoon: Ultimate Animal Collection on Steam

The wildly popular Zoo Tycoon series gets set to crank up the excitement, challenge, and fun of building the ultimate zoo. Let your imagination run wild with Zoo Tycoon: Ultimate Animal Collection. Build, manage, and maintain your dream zoo alone or with up to four players.

store.steampowered.com

Frontier are not the makers of the original Zoo tycoon

That was Blue Fang Studios

 

[Kaan]

You know wrong.
It has nothing to do with the zoo tycoon ultimate animal collection.

Save 70% on Planet Zoo on Steam

Build a world for wildlife in Planet Zoo. From the developers of Planet Coaster and Zoo Tycoon comes the ultimate zoo sim. Construct detailed habitats, manage your zoo, and meet authentic living animals who think, feel and explore the world you create around them.

store.steampowered.com

But yes the frontier is not the original producers of zoo tycoon. The original producers of Zoo Tycoon are Blue Fang Games and Microsoft. I don't know exactly, but the blue fang games in 2011 were closed because the contract with Microsoft ended. After that the frontier took over the zoo tycoon.

 

[NL_Mutso]

I recall someone else mentioning on this forum recently, that it was the 'spiritual' successor of the latest Zoo Tycoon.
The game doesn't get much positive reviews on steam, more of a zookeeper game..

I don't know what you're arguing about, but at the beginning of the game, they said it was partly the sequel to zoo tycoon and the zoo tycoon team was in this game.

Gave me a laugh. But it's actually pretty accurate.

But also:
Devs: 'Guys, we are going to make a Zoo game with a focus on animal realism'
Small Community: 'We want fictional/extinct/non-zoo animals, in this game'

I think the extinct part is more JWE. Researching fossils/remains is a big part of that game.
Fictional.... just no.. Feels like asking for Hydra weapons in Battlefield V.

Maybe Marine will be a DLC/expansion in the future (was popular back then), I wouldn't be suprised if they made it a separate game.

Let them focus on the real world. There are a lot of great fun animals to pick from.

 

[Kaan]

Exactly. I don't think we need dinosaurs. Especially in a modern zoo I do not want to see at all. But of course there are people who want dinosaurs, and I respect them. But already have JWE. I don't think Frontier will add dinosaurs to this game. it would be very strange anyway.

 

[Mjmannella]

I recall someone else mentioning on this forum recently, that it was the 'spiritual' successor of the latest Zoo Tycoon.
The game doesn't get much positive reviews on steam, more of a zookeeper game..


Gave me a laugh. But it's actually pretty accurate.

But also:
Devs: 'Guys, we are going to make a Zoo game with a focus on animal realism'
Small Community: 'We want fictional/extinct/non-zoo animals, in this game'

I think the extinct part is more JWE. Researching fossils/remains is a big part of that game.
Fictional.... just no.. Feels like asking for Hydra weapons in Battlefield V.

Maybe Marine will be a DLC/expansion in the future (was popular back then), I wouldn't be suprised if they made it a separate game.

Let them focus on the real world. There are a lot of great fun animals to pick from.

Treating every extinct animal as dinosaur-related is a very limited way to approach extinct animals. JWE is surely dinosaur-focused (or at least, Mesozoic-focused). Animals that went extinct within our current epoch (the Holocene) would be much more at home in PZ on shared contemporaries alone.
Is there overlap in the fans of these distinct kind of extinct animals? Certainly. But please don't lump them all together.

 

[Aero-Bubbles]

There are literally millions of living animals alive today that need recognition and help. I just don’t see the point of adding a mammoth to a zoo game like planet zoo when there are so many living animals people don’t even know exist. I’d rather bring attention to an animal at risk of going extinct than an animal that died out thousands of years ago.

That being said, I personally don’t think I’d want it, but for those who might they could make say a pack with some extinct mammals (and when I say extinct mammals I’m talking a/ hundred(s) /of years ago or even but as like the last DLC to planet zoo, once all the other animals have had their chance to appear, and absolutely no dinosaurs or mythical creatures.

 

[AndyZoos]

I recall someone else mentioning on this forum recently, that it was the 'spiritual' successor of the latest Zoo Tycoon.
The game doesn't get much positive reviews on steam, more of a zookeeper game...

When people reference Zoo Tycoon, they're referring to the old PC games (Zoo Tycoon and Zoo Tycoon 2). That latest addition that's available on Steam is eally bad and not at all what people were hoping for.

Zoo Tycoon 2 had a huge emphasis on exhibit design (especially in the community that grew and grew over the last 10+ years who continued developing mods for the game).

 

[Aero-Bubbles]

^ However, when the devs talk about zoo tycoon, and planet zoo being the successor, that’s pretty much the game (zoo tycoon that was first out on Xbox) not zoo tycoon 2. Sure they for sure are taking inspiration from zoo tycoon 2, after all, that game was a huge success for its time.
But it’s mainly zoo tycoon 2013 (I think that was the year) they are referring to.

 

[LN]

You know wrong.
It has nothing to do with the zoo tycoon ultimate animal collection.

Save 70% on Planet Zoo on Steam

Build a world for wildlife in Planet Zoo. From the developers of Planet Coaster and Zoo Tycoon comes the ultimate zoo sim. Construct detailed habitats, manage your zoo, and meet authentic living animals who think, feel and explore the world you create around them.

store.steampowered.com

But yes the frontier is not the original producers of zoo tycoon. The original producers of Zoo Tycoon are Blue Fang Games and Microsoft. I don't know exactly, but the blue fang games in 2011 were closed because the contract with Microsoft ended. After that the frontier took over the zoo tycoon.

Okay fair. I think you just repeated exactly what I said. But apparantly i am wrong.

 

[NL_Mutso]

Treating every extinct animal as dinosaur-related is a very limited way to approach extinct animals. JWE is surely dinosaur-focused (or at least, Mesozoic-focused). Animals that went extinct within our current epoch (the Holocene) would be much more at home in PZ on shared contemporaries alone.
Is there overlap in the fans of these distinct kind of extinct animals? Certainly. But please don't lump them all together.

We don't lump them together. Didn't make that assumption, so don't create an argument that isn't there.
The game mechanics of JWE is focused on extinct creatures, researching/excavating remains (fossils when it comes to dinos)
We disagree on which time periods for which game, the mechanic in JWE makes more sense when it comes with these animals.
I'll admit, i don't think the 'Jurassic World' right owners, don't want their property of dinos mixed with non-dinos.

There are people who want a realistic zoogame (as much as possible), there's a small group that want non-zoo animals and there's a large group that don't care, but also won't buy it.
So basically DLC for a very limited group and a large group of people who don't intend to buy this DLC.

Like I somewhat said before, they should focus on the majority and use their time/resources on DLC, which are in high demand.
Creating non-zoo animals for a Zoo game just doesn't make any sense, and taints the image of a zoo game, aiming for animal realism.

 

[Mjmannella]

We don't lump them together. Didn't make that assumption, so don't create an argument that isn't there.
The game mechanics of JWE is focused on extinct creatures, researching/excavating remains (fossils when it comes to dinos)
We disagree on which time periods for which game, the mechanic in JWE makes more sense when it comes with these animals.
I'll admit, i don't think the 'Jurassic World' right owners, don't want their property of dinos mixed with non-dinos.

There are people who want a realistic zoogame (as much as possible), there's a small group that want non-zoo animals and there's a large group that don't care, but also won't buy it.
So basically DLC for a very limited group and a large group of people who don't intend to buy this DLC.

Like I somewhat said before, they should focus on the majority and use their time/resources on DLC, which are in high demand.
Creating non-zoo animals for a Zoo game just doesn't make any sense, and taints the image of a zoo game, aiming for animal realism.

You were the one who said "I think the extinct part is more JWE", without making any distinction.
And did extinct animals in ZT2 taint its legacy? If anything, they enhanced it. It shouldn't lose priority over a mere marketing tactic.

There are literally millions of living animals alive today that need recognition and help. I just don’t see the point of adding a mammoth to a zoo game like planet zoo when there are so many living animals people don’t even know exist. I’d rather bring attention to an animal at risk of going extinct than an animal that died out thousands of years ago.

That being said, I personally don’t think I’d want it, but for those who might they could make say a pack with some extinct mammals (and when I say extinct mammals I’m talking a/ hundred(s) /of years ago or even but as like the last DLC to planet zoo, once all the other animals have had their chance to appear, and absolutely no dinosaurs or mythical creatures.

Thinking this game will actually help conserve niche species is highly optimistic. Frontier is first and foremost a business, they want animals that can sell. And more people know about woolly mammoths than Colombian woolly monkeys.
And you've seem to have forgotten how recent 10,000 years actually is. That's the start of the epoch of human development (Holocene).

 

[NL_Mutso]

And yet you made the assumption about dino-related.
Maybe include the entire part ? 'I think the extinct part is more JWE. Researching fossils/remains is a big part of that game'

Sigh, and again the comparison to ZT2 or an expansion pack for ZT2.
They enhanced the game? No.. not for a lot of people.. Maybe a reason why people are against it now ?
Brushing off Frontier's effort/work to create animal realism as a 'mere marketing tactic', not cool ! Seen a couple of interviews and some are very passionate about it.

I like your comment 'Frontier is first and foremost a business, they want animals that can sell'. Looking at 'wishlists' they have enough material to work with.

 

[AndyZoos]

I just don't understand the desire or this within PlanetZoo, specifically. It feels very counter to the overall vibe of the game as its designed

I could see them adding something as a goof or an easter egg. And maybe a brief DLC thing with a new scenario (a la JWE) that introduces some recently exctinct animals (e.g., dodo, thycaline) but... There's a lot more than the creatures themselves that would need to be created or prehistoric and/or fantasy creatures. New fence types, enrichment items, food, scenery, foliage, etc. I think it would be a fairly big undertaking. They wouldn't have you just throw a velociraptor or an allosaurus in with the current fencing, y'know? They would rip that right up, haha. And it would probably be done over a handful of different DLC packs that would probably add up to a decent chunk of change, anyway.

And if there really does turn out to be a huge demand for that sort of thing? They could always take the PlanetZoo engine and create a brand new game based around it where everything in-game is geared toward that specifically. If they went that route somewhere down the line? I would definitely be supportive of that--and probably purchase the game.

I get why people want these things, I'm just not sure why there is such an insistence on it being part of the same game. Why not shoot for the moon and wish for a full game dedicated to the stuff? If they do it via DLC, I wouldn't anticipate getting a whole ton of new animals, y'know?

 

[Nicholas LionRider]

Marine animals are one thing. Even extinct animals are okay. I do think there is a kinda weird aspect of cryptids though. Zoo Tycoon kinda worked cause it was very stylized and minuscule. But I do think it would be kinda weird having a "realistic looking bigfoot" in an exhibit with the god rays. There is just something off about how realistic Planet Zoo is and to add unicorns and loch ness monsters seems really bizarre to me.

 

[Mjmannella]

And yet you made the assumption about dino-related.
Maybe include the entire part ? 'I think the extinct part is more JWE. Researching fossils/remains is a big part of that game'

Sigh, and again the comparison to ZT2 or an expansion pack for ZT2.
They enhanced the game? No.. not for a lot of people.. Maybe a reason why people are against it now ?
Brushing off Frontier's effort/work to create animal realism as a 'mere marketing tactic', not cool ! Seen a couple of interviews and some are very passionate about it.

I like your comment 'Frontier is first and foremost a business, they want animals that can sell'. Looking at 'wishlists' they have enough material to work with.

I don't see how including the second sentance somehow had you differenitate Holocene extinct animals from Mesozoic animals.

There were definitely people who were looking forward to extinct DLC 10 years ago for Zoo Tycoon 2. Don't pretend this crowd never existed. And not to mention, the addition of new animals, objects, campaigns, challenges, staff, foliage, and mechanics objectively enhanced the game on the basis of additional content.

People are allowed to like marketing statements, but that doesn't mean the business has to stick with it it it means losing out on a profitable opportunity.

Yes, and Frontier would be wise to look at every wishlist equally, in spite of elitists trying to gatekeep what should(n't) be in the game.

 

[Babaloga]

I know I'm pretty late to the party here, but I'd like to put in a word for extinct animals, specifically dinosaurs. JWE is a fine game but it takes a characteristically "Jurassic Park" approach to dinosaurs. It would be really nice to see a more "Planet Zoo" approach to dinosaurs as animals that need to be cared for, rather than as movie monsters that fight each other for our entertainment. Animals that probably get stressed around humans, or enjoy climbing or playing with a ball. Animals that won't try to smash through any wall that isn't made of steel and electricity, and would instead be safely contained in an exhibit designed to hold a large modern-day animal, like an elephant. Animals that you don't intentionally provoke to fight each other because what the . I want dinosaurs in Planet Zoo specifically because I know they wouldn't be the action-figure battle lizards of JWE.
I understand and respect those who say that the presence of dinosaurs would clash with the conservationist message of the game or ruin the realism and tone. I also agree that the focus for now should be on expanding the roster of real-world animals, but a few years down the road I think this game has an opportunity to step out of the long shadow cast by Jurassic Park by portraying dinosaurs in the respectful, naturalistic manner in which it portrays modern-day animals.

 

[holliday50]

Pst. Hey guys: if you don't want that stuff in your game, then don't buy it.

I don't understand why this is such a difficult thing for people to understand. If Frontier chooses to make an extinction DLC, then who cares? No one's forcing you to buy that pack, and in turn people that want to have that in their game now have the option.

Don't understand why people get upset over something they literally have the choice of buying or not. If it's patched into the game then yes I can understand being against something. But when you literally can choose not to... Then why get upset at someone for wanting something different?

Also the fact it's up to Frontier on what DLC to make

It's pretty simple really. When you lobby Frontier Games to create content, you are asking them to invest their resources, using their time and manpower to create said content. If said content is something that I not only have no interest in, but believe goes against the very spirit of the game, I will lobby against it. The price of said content is completely irrelevant. If they created dinosaurs and gave them out for free, I still wouldn't like it. Why? Because that development time could have been spent creating penguins, siamang monkeys, or literally dozens of other real zoo animals that players would love to see.

 

[NL_Mutso]

I know I'm pretty late to the party here, but I'd like to put in a word for extinct animals, specifically dinosaurs. JWE is a fine game but it takes a characteristically "Jurassic Park" approach to dinosaurs. It would be really nice to see a more "Planet Zoo" approach to dinosaurs as animals that need to be cared for, rather than as movie monsters that fight each other for our entertainment. Animals that probably get stressed around humans, or enjoy climbing or playing with a ball. Animals that won't try to smash through any wall that isn't made of steel and electricity, and would instead be safely contained in an exhibit designed to hold a large modern-day animal, like an elephant. Animals that you don't intentionally provoke to fight each other because what the gently caress. I want dinosaurs in Planet Zoo specifically because I know they wouldn't be the action-figure battle lizards of JWE

I understand and respect those who say that the presence of dinosaurs would clash with the conservationist message of the game or ruin the realism and tone. I also agree that the focus for now should be on expanding the roster of real-world animals, but a few years down the road I think this game has an opportunity to step out of the long shadow cast by Jurassic Park by portraying dinosaurs in the respectful, naturalistic manner in which it portrays modern-day animals.

There's a game in alpha who actually focuses on extinct animals & dinos, maybe lobby with that dev to add animals, from a very specific historic time, in that game.. The game looks very similar to PZ and from the limited footage/pics has a similar tone and goes with the 'Planet zoo approach'.
Also I don't think Frontier will add anything close to this.. JWE has dinos and a different company focuses on extinct & dinos.
You can actually choose nowadays. (which wasn't an option 10-20 years ago)

I fully agree with holliday50 on this one.. Considering the wishlists on this forum, there are a lot lists where all people agree on.. Even the marine option is debatable/somewhat controversial, but the majority seems likely to buy such DLC. But even that option would require a lot of extra time/effort, you can't simply add those in the current game without adding major features.

To me, when people call others elitists, their opinion matters less to none... (very rude to use that word!)

 

[Barje]

bring everything,i dont think they'll do it but...bring everything except cryptids&fantasy,no,no. keep them away from planet zoo,let them stay in the Harry Potter/Witcher franchises.

 

[Charmmy Colour]

Personally, I’m fine with extinct animals AS LONG as humans had the chance to interact and study them correctly before their disappearance. Why?

Animals we know that existed, but can only be reproduced through bones or other leftovers (including vague descriptions and mentions in old writings) are constantly changing for us. We don’t have a tangible proof of how they were or how they acted because we couldn’t never study them properly. As a result, ever few years we discover something new that changes again all we believed an animal was. Our perception of dinosaurs or mammoth as changed several times in the last years, and it’s certainly something that won’t stop happening. After all, the point is that we can only speculate.

I love Zoo Tycoon 2, but if the info on the animals is clearly outdated, the info on extinct species is VERY noticeable wrong. Specially dinosaurs, that I’m not sure were even trying to be accurate on the first place. It will be so out of places in Planet Zoo, that is aiming to have realistic animals and behaviors. Well, you can’t be realistic if you don’t even know how reality was for the extinct species.

Recently extinct species are fine to me. We have good studies, drawings, photos and even records of them in captivity; so they won’t get them wrong. And although it’s not realistic, I’ll argue it’s educational, teaching about how many animals were extinct in so little (relatively) and how they are going extinct now, and it’s a real thread to lose awesome animals if we don’t protect them.

Marine animals would be cool too, but I would leave out most controversial points like whales and shows.

And fantasy would be awesome...in another game. There’s not a clear consensus on any of these animals for obvious reasons, it will only create fights between people because everyone will want their version of the mythical creature (or the version on their favorite fandom) and there’s simply no way to choose who’s right, because everybody and nobody is.