Newcomer / Intro What are you up to?

[Chris Simon]

I suppose I might consider it when I get to triple Elite but that is probably years away seeing as I don't do many missions.

Everybody plays differently. I can totally underestand that somebody simply wants to have billions, all the ships and then just does whatever they fancy for all eternity. It's just not for me. The beauty of Elite is that it doesn't tell you what to do.

 

[Lysette]

I cleared the save and I'm working on some FA OFF training (Thank you Moxen Wolf on youtube)

...and posting on here because you like the Rimmer salute

Thank you for mentioning Moxen Wolf - I am very interested in flying without flight assistent (not in general, but it is something I want to learn as well) and didn't really know where to begin with it. Those videos will definitely help me.

 

[Lysette]

Everybody plays differently. I can totally understand that somebody simply wants to have billions, all the ships and then just does whatever they fancy for all eternity. It's just not for me. The beauty of Elite is that it doesn't tell you what to do.

Exactly, I like the sandbox feel of it. And my goal for today is not really making any money, but to learn to control my ship better. Yesterday I put time into learning supercruise approach to do a little quicker than before - I am still struggling to find the sweet spot for stopping supercruise from speeding up and slowly reduce speed for a decently fast approach to not overshoot. Normally I do it too early still, this will take awhile until I'll get a real "natural" feel for it. If I let it speed up too much, I will not be able to reduce the speed enough to not overshoot, but if I reduce it too early it will take me minutes to arrive. I guess this will take me a few days more to master. So far I figured, that in the end phase the sweet spot is about 0.07 to arrive, but I haven't figured out yet, at what point i will have to start with reducing speed to get there without to slow down too much in between. I am still missing out on in time delivery rewards, because I suck at this particular thing.

 

[Chris Simon]

Exactly, I like the sandbox feel of it. And my goal for today is not really making any money, but to learn to control my ship better. Yesterday I put time into learning supercruise approach to do a little quicker than before - I am still struggling to find the sweet spot for stopping supercruise from speeding up and slowly reduce speed for a decently fast approach to not overshoot. Normally I do it too early still, this will take awhile until I'll get a real "natural" feel for it. If I let it speed up too much, I will not be able to reduce the speed enough to not overshoot, but if I reduce it too early it will take me minutes to arrive. I guess this will take me a few days more to master. So far I figured, that in the end phase the sweet spot it about 0.07 to arrive, but I haven't figured out yet, at what point i will have to start with reducing speed to get there without to slow down too much in between. I am still missing out on time delivery rewards, because I suck at this particular thing.

Yes, the 7s ETA is the sweetspot for where to throttle down to the middle of the blue zone.
And speaking of not earning money for a while and just flying the ship for its own sake - I completely agree. I love finding myself a nice planet with canyons and mountain ridges and simply spending a day having fun with the ship and SRV. It's the best thing ever.

 

[Para Handy]

Exactly, I like the sandbox feel of it. And my goal for today is not really making any money, but to learn to control my ship better. Yesterday I put time into learning supercruise approach to do a little quicker than before - I am still struggling to find the sweet spot for stopping supercruise from speeding up and slowly reduce speed for a decently fast approach to not overshoot. Normally I do it too early still, this will take awhile until I'll get a real "natural" feel for it. If I let it speed up too much, I will not be able to reduce the speed enough to not overshoot, but if I reduce it too early it will take me minutes to arrive. I guess this will take me a few days more to master. So far I figured, that in the end phase the sweet spot is about 0.07 to arrive, but I haven't figured out yet, at what point i will have to start with reducing speed to get there without to slow down too much in between. I am still missing out on in time delivery rewards, because I suck at this particular thing.

The trick is to have a binding set for 75% throttle, select that as you get towards 0:07 and then your speed will be controlled so that the ttg goes to 0:06 and stays there until you get the "safe to disconnect" message.

 

[Electric Kite]

Playing Read Dead Redemtion 2 along with the majority of the human Race.

 

[Lysette]

The trick is to have a binding set for 75% throttle, select that as you get towards 0:07 and then your speed will be controlled so that the ttg goes to 0:06 and stays there until you get the "safe to disconnect" message.

Oh, great I will try that, thank you.

 

[Spaceman Si]

Yes, the 7s ETA is the sweetspot for where to throttle down to the middle of the blue zone.
And speaking of not earning money for a while and just flying the ship for its own sake - I completely agree. I love finding myself a nice planet with canyons and mountain ridges and simply spending a day having fun with the ship and SRV. It's the best thing ever.

Exactly!

Like yesterday, where "all" I did was drive my SRV up a mountain range. I saw that sunrise was due, as there were the starlight scintillations coming up over the horizon, so I thought I'd climb up high and catch the spectacle. It was well worth it, I ended up doing a ridge climb that I would have loved to do in real life, and found a suitable high point to watch the star rise. For a glorious few minutes, I saw everything come into stark relief with the first shadows of dawn, and could see that I was truly on the terminator - one side was a plain lit by the supremely low slanting rays of the star making its way above the horizon, and on the other side was still darkness, though a distant couple of peaks were lit up at the summits.

No credits earned, but.... Truly priceless.

 

[Tyres O'Flaherty]

Yep 75%. I have a key bound to that which I hit at 7s. Unless I get distracted. Perhaps one of the cats is demanding a belly rub, and if I don't comply forthwith, I'll be branded an evil, sadistic, satan-worshippi heinous excuse for a human being who will be ignored until feeding time.

 

[Lysette]

Yes, the 7s ETA is the sweetspot for where to throttle down to the middle of the blue zone.
And speaking of not earning money for a while and just flying the ship for its own sake - I completely agree. I love finding myself a nice planet with canyons and mountain ridges and simply spending a day having fun with the ship and SRV. It's the best thing ever.

Have a look at this video from Moxen Wolf, he is showing a few things on planets with flight assist off. The whole video series is awesome and I really admire the control he has over his ship with flight assist off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqN_UuEYKWY&list=PLIQVVKXGd78AiYjhGUNZL9dFm23hYgc8R&index=2

 

[Mo Ronik]

I sometimes get caught in a gravity pull so no matter what I do the speed increases and I'm destined to overshoot so the first thing I do is nose straight up with throttle to zero and that slows me down then I roll it over and nose back to the station. Usually when I'm not keeping a close eye on my time to arrival. On the distance indicator left side top bar I wait till my distance thing is right in the middle of the blue bars. I think there are 4, maybe 6 but I just wait till it's dead center and drop out. Puts me about 8km away from the station so I can make ready for landing. Throttle back to slow, call for docking as soon as I'm in range, line myself up with the slot or check the compass for the dock if it's an outpost, drop my landing gear, set my pips to balanced and off we go to the circle. Hope to set this all up in voice attack eventually but doing it manually right now is building that muscle memory. I've been watching the station icon as well while in supercruise long before I get there so I can see where the slot or docks are before hand and adjust my trajectory to make it the quickest landing. I used to fly straight to the station but now I make a big arc to approach it with the planet on my tail and keeping the orbit line in a straight horizontal line to my ship. My next thing to futz with is getting better at planetary station landings. I do fine once I'm there but I tend to drop out a little too far from the station and it takes me a bit to get in contact range. McKay Beacon is in my home system and is always needing and paying well for basic medicines so I want to start making that a regular trade run.

 

[Chris Simon]

Have a look at this video from Moxen Wolf, he is showing a few things on planets with flight assist off. The whole video series is awesome and I really admire the control he has over his ship with flight assist off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqN_UuEYKWY&list=PLIQVVKXGd78AiYjhGUNZL9dFm23hYgc8R&index=2

If you like F/A off, I highly recommend watching Isinona. He taught me, years ago. And I definitely urge you to learn F/A off flying. It's incredibly satisfying and you can do things that Flight Assist simply won't allow you to do.
Here's little me fighting off a Cobra in an E-rated loaned Sidey
[video=youtube;3DzsSrT9EHs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DzsSrT9EHs[/video]

 

[Lysette]

If you like F/A off, I highly recommend watching Isinona. He taught me, years ago. And I definitely urge you to learn F/A off flying. It's incredibly satisfying and you can do things that Flight Assist simply won't allow you to do.
Here's little me fighting off a Cobra in an E-rated loaned Sidey

I definitely want to learn it. IMO it has some similarities to helicopter flight, where the flight vector is as well not necessarily nose forward (which has to be controlled by pedal inputs and afterwards be balance out with cyclic and collective). With the first Moxen Wolf video it impressed me quite a lot what control he has in those tunnels. I really want to master my spacecraft, not just "somewhat" fly it, but to have real control over it by muscle memory. Much like I do with helicopters irl. I know it costs a lot of training time, but I will definitely put time into that.

This said, should I put my thrusters on digital input instead of continous?

 

[Chris Simon]

I definitely want to learn it. IMO it has some similarities to helicopter flight, where the flight vector is as well not necessarily nose forward (which has to be controlled by pedal inputs and afterwards be balance out with cyclic and collective). With the first Moxen Wolf video it impressed me quite a lot what control he has in those tunnels. I really want to master my spacecraft, not just "somewhat" fly it, but to have real control over it by muscle memory. Much like I do with helicopters irl. I know it costs a lot of training time, but I will definitely put time into that.

Yes, exactly. The whole problem with F/A on is that it stabilizes the ship. Any control input you give, the F/A is trying to mitigate and stop. That means that your ship is basically fighting you all the time.
With F/A off, every input is unhindered. That means the ship is more responsive, but also you have to learn to counter your inputs yourself to stabilize your ship. That is the hardest part and, like your real flying, is completely up to your muscle memory.
Good luck, if you're going to try. It will definitely take you a couple of days, but it's a REALLY cool skill to have.

One thing I would recommend is to actually try it with a less nimble ship. Something like an Adder is a great ship to learn it in, because it isn't as twitchy as a Sidey or an Eagle.

As for the thrusters - you will either need to put your throttle to full range (That means the "0" is in the middle and you have full forwards/backwards control over the range of your throttle lever, or you'll have to bind the "thrust forward" and "Thrust backwards" controls, just like you have the lateral and vertical thrusters.

 

[Lysette]

Yes, exactly. The whole problem with F/A on is that it stabilizes the ship. Any control input you give, the F/A is trying to mitigate and stop. That means that your ship is basically fighting you all the time.
With F/A off, every input is unhindered. That means the ship is more responsive, but also you have to learn to counter your inputs yourself to stabilize your ship. That is the hardest part and, like your real flying, is completely up to your muscle memory.
Good luck, if you're going to try. It will definitely take you a couple of days, but it's a REALLY cool skill to have.

One thing I would recommend is to actually try it with a less nimble ship. Something like an Adder is a great ship to learn it in, because it isn't as twitchy as a Sidey or an Eagle.

I doubt that I will have a big problem with stabilizing my ship, in a helicopter I have to do that all the time, because all 3 main controls work together and if I change one I have to change all the others as well to stabilize the aircraft. Like I change collective, the torque is changing, which I have to balance out by pedal input, what changes the side force on the helicopter, which I have to balance out by cyclic. I am used to that every input I make to my aircraft is having an effect on my other controls and that I have to make very small corrections to not let my aircraft get into a rodeo motion. And to me it seemed to be very similar in those FA off videos - but I will see about that.

 

[Chris Simon]

I doubt that I will have a big problem with stabilizing my ship, in a helicopter I have to do that all the time, because all 3 main controls work together and if I change one I have to change all the others as well to stabilize the aircraft. Like I change collective, the torque is changing, which I have to balance out by pedal input, what changes the side force on the helicopter, which I have to balance out by cyclic. I am used to that every input I make to my aircraft is having an effect on my other controls and that I have to make very small corrections to not let my aircraft get into a rodeo motion. And to me it seemed to be very similar in those FA off videos - but I will see about that.

Yes, the helicopter is an inherently unstable machine, so I don't doubt you will find F/A off much easier to master than a non-pilot person and find out many things work similarly.
It's all about just learning that instead just returning the stick to the neutral position, you have to apply a counter-input after every contol input you make.

 

[Spaceman Si]

Yep 75%. I have a key bound to that which I hit at 7s. Unless I get distracted. Perhaps one of the cats is demanding a belly rub, and if I don't comply forthwith, I'll be branded an evil, sadistic, satan-worshippi heinous excuse for a human being who will be ignored until feeding time.

I often get food requests (which are a non-maskable interrupt, in ye-olde 6502 speak ), or a determined arrival into my lap to sit down and sleep on. Both can be somewhat "entertaining" when trying to fly

 

[Lysette]

I often get food requests (which are a non-maskable interrupt, in ye-olde 6502 speak ), or a determined arrival into my lap to sit down and sleep on. Both can be somewhat "entertaining" when trying to fly

Eventually you can use some indirect addressing (to use your 6502 speak) and redirect the procedure to your partner.

Ah well there were no procedures on the 6502 - but rather subroutines without automatic stack. So redirect the routine to your partner.

 

[Spaceman Si]

Eventually you can use some indirect addressing (to use your 6502 speak) and redirect the procedure to your partner.

Ah well there were no procedures on the 6502 - but rather subroutines without automatic stack. So redirect the routine to your partner.

That particular JSR call would find a NOP and RTS or an invalid address right now

It might not exactly fit either VFR or IFR rules, but I don't mind flying with a cat on my lap or dropping out of SuperCruise somewhere safe to go and feed him [haha]

No flying tonight for me though; I am sat in front of the fire with aforementioned cat and some mulled wine

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Yes, exactly. The whole problem with F/A on is that it stabilizes the ship. Any control input you give, the F/A is trying to mitigate and stop. That means that your ship is basically fighting you all the time.
With F/A off, every input is unhindered. That means the ship is more responsive, but also you have to learn to counter your inputs yourself to stabilize your ship. That is the hardest part and, like your real flying, is completely up to your muscle memory.
Good luck, if you're going to try. It will definitely take you a couple of days, but it's a REALLY cool skill to have.

One thing I would recommend is to actually try it with a less nimble ship. Something like an Adder is a great ship to learn it in, because it isn't as twitchy as a Sidey or an Eagle.

As for the thrusters - you will either need to put your throttle to full range (That means the "0" is in the middle and you have full forwards/backwards control over the range of your throttle lever, or you'll have to bind the "thrust forward" and "Thrust backwards" controls, just like you have the lateral and vertical thrusters.

Are you using KB+M/relative settings?