What happened to free access to 1 of 5 new ships?

[RedWizzard]

Newsletter 54#-"All in-game digital rewards are already in the game". I don't know how many ways ALL can be interpreted?

All the ones that are currently implemented, obviously. This is exactly what I meant about choosing interpretations disingenuously. You are quite happy to take the above quote and interpret it as "we've cancelled everything that isn't already in the game", but you refuse to accept the actual words they actually said that ships would be released post release.

 

[CatHellsky]

All the ones that are currently implemented, obviously. This is exactly what I meant about choosing interpretations disingenuously. You are quite happy to take the above quote and interpret it as "we've cancelled everything that isn't already in the game", but you refuse to accept the actual words they actually said that ships would be released post release. As far as I can see you're looking for an excuse to moan and you're doing it in bad faith.

I've wanted to +1 you so many times in this thread, and I can't because I've done so already.

 

[[VR]tailgunner30uk]

Here's hoping you don't get neg-repped the way I did for my response on the first page. Apparently some people don't like truth...?

I have had a very few, -ives from other comments, I feel it says more about the giver than the receiver, I have never given -ive rrp myself, and hope never to do so...

 

[ankhorion]

Guys.....seriously?

Who cares what they give? You made a voluntary donation, that's all. KS campaign is no different from the homeless outside the highway exit or at the roadlight, that ask you money for the ticket to go home, or to pay the doctor's bills and such. You donated money, whatever you get back, just be happy about it and think about others that were not so lucky

Sorry, That is not how this works. You put in the money based on the presentation of what you will get, it is not charity, what gave you that idea?
It is just like funding a company and your stake in it is the game itself, which otherwise might not be produced. So it is not about profit but about the game itself, and
that might make people pretty picky about the game. Now I have no problem waiting, I am just glad I can play a bit when I have the time. I hope the game will get better over time, and I am sure it will. I don't care about the extra ships right now, but if promised, I would like to see it some day. And if you got kids you know, never give promises that go over a certain extended time, for the kids will keep nagging you forever. ;o)

 

[CatHellsky]

I have had a very few, -ives from other comments, I feel it says more about the giver than the receiver, I have never given -ive rrp myself, and hope never to do so...

I have, but I try to keep it to comments that I find are purely aimed towards trolling/flame baiting, without any hope of any form of actual discussion. And even then, only when I'm in a foul mood.

 

[Ben_BigBen]

FTLOG can we just give these people their money back and ban them from posting on the forums. It was an innocent question from the OP and it got turned into the loud minority again. I think we all know that we'll get these extra 5 ships in a few months time and access to one of them as beta backers when we do - what's so hard to grasp about that ?

 

[RedWizzard]

I've wanted to +1 you so many times in this thread, and I can't because I've done so already.

Back at ya!

 

[Muthax]

FTLOG can we just give these people their money back and ban them from posting on the forums. It was an innocent question from the OP and it got turned into the loud minority again. I think we all know that we'll get these extra 5 ships in a few months time and access to one of them as beta backers when we do - what's so hard to grasp about that ?

Honestly, you can do the second without the first. Those posts have enough infractions in it to be banning material but looks like FD wants to be very 'PC'.

Hope it doesn't end up biting them in the butt like it usually does

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I have had a very few, -ives from other comments, I feel it says more about the giver than the receiver, I have never given -ive rrp myself, and hope never to do so...

The 'rep system' exists only for one reason: if I read something I like or appreciate, I'll give it +1 rep
When I read something I find stupid, offensive or worse, I'll give it -1 rep

people using it like it was some sort of political system need to reevaluate what they do on these boards

 

[RedWizzard]

I dug up some of Michael Brooke's clarifications about these bonus ships:

It means there will be more ships over time, not on the 16th.

We'll reveal more about release as we approach, but not all 25 will be available upon release. They will be added as we progress beyond that point.

It means that you won't have to pay in-game credits for them, like the free Eagle in the mercenary edition.

 

[Ruffgenius]

With this amount of 'quote mining' and misrepresentation of facts you would have a great career as an American Televangelist YEC.

So let us actually deal with the facts rather than the mis-statements reported here.

1. The Mercenary pack, consisted of an Eagle, plus mercenary paint job. This was an add on you could purchase in store. It was granted free to Beta and earlier backers as an additional reward, and is "In Game" some had problems locating it, and a few encountered a bug where it was located in another system, but it is, and was there. And had been from Gamma 1.

2. The Beginner's guide was released before Christmas in version 1. It is a guide, not a comprehensive instruction manual, and there may have been a decision taken to release it to all, rather than just a few backers. So What, you have it, others have it. As it is digital, that would be the inevitable consequence anyway, within a short time.

3. DRM Free, oh this has been a ripe one. Many complained that as you needed to create an account, and authenticate as a player, each time you wanted to play, this meant that the physical copy was not DRM Free. However, the mis-representation of the situation by the complainers was clear. In The Kick-starter documentation the description of the disk was that you would receive exactly the same files as could be downloaded from the site. There would be no copy protection on the disk, but you would HAVE to log on to play.

4. Off-Line, this mode was always an afterthought as is apparent in the design documents. The off-line mode would allow play, but would need to connect to the servers for authentication, and for regular updates. Anyone who believed differently was deluding themselves, if they believed that Frontier would effectively 'give away' free copies of the game to anyone who was happy to play off-line piracy be-damned.

4. Permits. Beta backers and earlier received two free permits. The founders world and SOL. Both are in the game.

5. Additional ships, and another whopping deception by the disgruntled. As most reasonable and rational people are aware, this statement referred to the Kick-starter awards. Those who pledged sufficient were given access to additional starter ships, alongside the Sidewinder and additional Credits. They were an alternative to the sidewinder not an additional ship like the Eagle. These were and are in game, although again, there were some who had problems accessing them initially.

6. 25 ships vs 15. I like many was disappointed that there were only 15 ships at launch, however, that has not meant that I have gone out screaming and foot-stamping like some spoilt little brat who demands that they get everything at once. I accept that Frontier will add the 10 missing ships as the game progresses over the next few months along with the Extra 5 that have been promised to be added, making 30 in game playable ships. As can be seen,with the Adder and Python, adding ships is not simply a matter of throwing a 3D model in. The ships have to be modelled internally and externally. Their capabilities have to be balanced, to prevent one overpowering ship tilting the table.

7. Insurance, discounts have been and are applied, at present to replacement ships AND upgrades, again in Gamma a change was made to apply the discount to hulls only, however this was amended. The discount was meant to be for Beta backers and earlier, and Kick-starter backers received a further discount on top of this. So for a purchaser of the game, today, Insurance costs, I understand, 5% of ship cost (This might be 10%, being a beta myself I am not sure) and for a Beta backer 3%. It is however there.

8. The other bits. Commander names, NPC and planetary names. et al, these were Kick-Starter rewards. A limited number of Jamesons, the right to name planets, stars and NPCs, with moderation for obvious reasons, are in game.

Digital artwork is in progress, and will be released when complete, paraphrased from David Braben, I assume because of the additional ships and quality control that they want to apply. But this isn't stopping me from playing the game.

There were no blankets thrown, there was an apology and explanation for off-line and slaved FSD given, that some, with ill-grace, refused to accept.

As for solicitors and Trading standards, a solicitor will happily take your money, THEN explain to you that you have no case. Trading standards are obliged to investigate, but, this will probably be after they have stopped wetting themselves with laughter.

TL: DR, well, that's your problem, not mine.

To start the solicitor isn't charging a thing they to was a backer of the game who was wanting to play the game offline.

Yes the Offline-mode was a big part of the reason quite clearly a lot of people backed the game.

as for the Kickstarter if problems come up, creators are expected to post a project update explaining the situation. Sharing the story, speed bumps and all, is crucial. Most backers support projects because they want to see something happen and they'd like to be a part of it. Creators who are honest and transparent will usually find backers to be understanding.

It's not uncommon for things to take longer than expected. Sometimes the execution of the project proves more difficult than the creator had anticipated. If a creator is making a good faith effort to complete their project and is transparent about it, backers should do their best to be patient and understanding while demanding continued accountability from the creator.

If the problems are severe enough that the creator can't fulfill their project, creators need to find a resolution. Steps should include offering refunds, detailing exactly how funds were used, and other actions to satisfy backers.

Thats the rules of kickstarter. They didnt announce anything in regards to the offline mode they hid it in a paragraph in a newsletter knowing full well some people wouldn't be able to access it. I know there are people that are in the military that bought the game thinking they could take it away with them and they would be able to play it Offline.

It wasn't an after thought at all., there was alway an offline mode.

When it comes to the offline mode sorry you have no idea what you are talking about. When you don't deliver on what was promised this is called fauls advertising and since June 2014 in the uk any digital software you have the same rights as though you was buying anything in a shop.

No one really cares about the manual just don't label it as something you get extra as a Pre-order if everyone gets it. It has nothing to do with the manual its the principle of it all. If you went and pre-ordered a tv and payed £30 extra for a tv program then on release they gave everyone that tv program for free you would be a little niffed.

As for the rest of your post.

They simply need to be clearer. Ive posted more than enough evidence to show that they said we have the ships.

I guess if they leave it up for interpretation thats their fault for not being clearer in the first place.

 

[ZeeWolf]

When it comes to the offline mode sorry you have no idea what you are talking about. When you don't deliver on what was promised this is called fauls advertising and since June 2014 in the uk any digital software you have the same rights as though you was buying anything in a shop.

Advertising rules do not apply to crowd funding and "pitches". This can't possibly apply to crowd funding/Kickstarters otherwise nobody would be able to take the risk. Quite a few KS projects haven't materialised and very few have been able to offer a discount following failure. When you back something you are essentially saying "go ahead and take my money". The developers have to sink that money into the project, you are essentially investing something that otherwise wouldn't have got funded - your return is merely the possibility that it becomes a reality. if it fails they aren't actually liable to return your "investment".

 

[Muthax]

You mean a real solicitor is behind this? A professional??

Or is he a 'barber/dentist/solicitor'?

 

[RedWizzard]

Ive posted more than enough evidence to show that they said we have the ships.

You've posted the same quote from newsletter #54 a couple of times, and that's it. A quote that in context is almost certainly referring only to the Kickstarter pledge rewards.

You've discounted out of hand far more evidence than you've presented.

 

[CatHellsky]

To start the solicitor isn't charging a thing they to was a backer of the game who was wanting to play the game offline.

Yes the Offline-mode was a big part of the reason quite clearly a lot of people backed the game.

as for the Kickstarter if problems come up, creators are expected to post a project update explaining the situation. Sharing the story, speed bumps and all, is crucial. Most backers support projects because they want to see something happen and they'd like to be a part of it. Creators who are honest and transparent will usually find backers to be understanding.

It's not uncommon for things to take longer than expected. Sometimes the execution of the project proves more difficult than the creator had anticipated. If a creator is making a good faith effort to complete their project and is transparent about it, backers should do their best to be patient and understanding while demanding continued accountability from the creator.

If the problems are severe enough that the creator can't fulfill their project, creators need to find a resolution. Steps should include offering refunds, detailing exactly how funds were used, and other actions to satisfy backers.

Thats the rules of kickstarter. They didnt announce anything in regards to the offline mode they hid it in a paragraph in a newsletter knowing full well some people wouldn't be able to access it. I know there are people that are in the military that bought the game thinking they could take it away with them and they would be able to play it Offline.

It wasn't an after thought at all., there was alway an offline mode.

When it comes to the offline mode sorry you have no idea what you are talking about. When you don't deliver on what was promised this is called fauls advertising and since June 2014 in the uk any digital software you have the same rights as though you was buying anything in a shop.

No one really cares about the manual just don't label it as something you get extra as a Pre-order if everyone gets it. It has nothing to do with the manual its the principle of it all. If you went and pre-ordered a tv and payed £30 extra for a tv program then on release they gave everyone that tv program for free you would be a little niffed.

As for the rest of your post.

They simply need to be clearer. Ive posted more than enough evidence to show that they said we have the ships.

I guess if they leave it up for interpretation thats their fault for not being clearer in the first place.

You've also ignored every single post about how you're misinterpreting it. Yes, they could be clearer. That doesn't give you the right to keep going on and on and on (and on and on) about how 'we have those ships already' when it's been explained repeatedly that we don't. Please, knock it off.

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You've posted the same quote from newsletter #54 a couple of times, and that's it. A quote that in context is almost certainly referring only to the Kickstarter pledge rewards.

You've discounted out of hand far more evidence than you've presented.

Noooo let me +1 you ;~;

 

[[VR]tailgunner30uk]

To start the solicitor isn't charging a thing they to was a backer of the game who was wanting to play the game offline.

Yes the Offline-mode was a big part of the reason quite clearly a lot of people backed the game.

as for the Kickstarter if problems come up, creators are expected to post a project update explaining the situation. Sharing the story, speed bumps and all, is crucial. Most backers support projects because they want to see something happen and they'd like to be a part of it. Creators who are honest and transparent will usually find backers to be understanding.

It's not uncommon for things to take longer than expected. Sometimes the execution of the project proves more difficult than the creator had anticipated. If a creator is making a good faith effort to complete their project and is transparent about it, backers should do their best to be patient and understanding while demanding continued accountability from the creator.

If the problems are severe enough that the creator can't fulfill their project, creators need to find a resolution. Steps should include offering refunds, detailing exactly how funds were used, and other actions to satisfy backers.

Thats the rules of kickstarter. They didnt announce anything in regards to the offline mode they hid it in a paragraph in a newsletter knowing full well some people wouldn't be able to access it. I know there are people that are in the military that bought the game thinking they could take it away with them and they would be able to play it Offline.

It wasn't an after thought at all., there was alway an offline mode.

When it comes to the offline mode sorry you have no idea what you are talking about. When you don't deliver on what was promised this is called fauls advertising and since June 2014 in the uk any digital software you have the same rights as though you was buying anything in a shop.

No one really cares about the manual just don't label it as something you get extra as a Pre-order if everyone gets it. It has nothing to do with the manual its the principle of it all. If you went and pre-ordered a tv and payed £30 extra for a tv program then on release they gave everyone that tv program for free you would be a little niffed.

As for the rest of your post.

They simply need to be clearer. Ive posted more than enough evidence to show that they said we have the ships.

I guess if they leave it up for interpretation thats their fault for not being clearer in the first place.

With regard to the in game ships, they were perfectly clear, that some 'Chose' to mis-apprehend what was said is the problem of those who made that choice. Context is everything, and the matter was further clarified with respect to the additional 15 ships, not present at launch, from Frontier, at that time even with respect to the fact that Beta and Kick-starter backers would be able to chose from one of the extra five, as a free gift. Similarly with respect to Off-Line, it clearly was an afterthought, in a separate short paragraph, with little detail fleshed out and never updated. But, in that paragraph it was clear that even the 'off-line mode' would need an online element for, at minimum, authorisation, as well as possibly frequent updates for content and transactions.

I simply do not understand the point about 'announcing it in the newsletter' surely, sending a digital newsletter with the information in it, to every backer, meets the information requirement. I suppose they could have wasted money taking out full page ads in all of the national papers, but I do not read newspapers, therefore would have received the announcement second-hand rather than direct from the horses mouth as it were. Refunds for those who wanted it were available, provided that they had not played the game. That is to say, if you pre-ordered the game, on the basis of an off-line mode, then you were entitled to receive your money back. If however you played the Beta, then decided you wanted your money back, well, no, the law is clear on this, access to Beta is what you paid for with the grant of receiving the full game when released, along with any additional benefits that Frontier might wish to give.

Cslling it false advertising, perhaps you need to inform yourself more on this subject. As I said, when the decision was taken it was announced, in fact I recall quite a kerfuffle about it on this very forum BEFORE, the game was released. Therefore, no one could be said to not be informed. And as I am sure that the refunds department explained as well as others, some 'barrack room lawyers' not withstanding, if you have used the software then you do not have grounds for a refund simply because a feature you want is no longer, or not going to be, available. There was never an off-line mode, there was a mention in the kick-stater and a short mention of it in the design documents, also some references to it in various diaries and videos, and a place-holder if I recall in the start menu, but it was never a playable option, only an intention.

As for information, there were newsletters, Dev. diaries, and a design forum where many of these matters were discussed during the development of the game.

Pre-order, and someone who bought the same thing later and got the same benefits afterwards miffed? why, did it harm me, did I lose some enjoyment? I paid for access to the Beta, and in my own small way contributed to the game development, why should I resent that someone else receive some of those starter benefits. Good luck to them, I hope they enjoy them as much as I did and do.

That is all I have to say, except, I once lodged a real false/misleading advertising complaint, about Microsoft, claiming that "Windows Was A PC". pointing out that it was an operating system, and that there were other alternatives Got nowhere, just as would any claim with respect to off-line or starter ships in Elite: Dangerous. And a word of caution "Free advice is never free"

 

[Cowski]

I bet it's going to be a tiny ship. Absolutely tiny.

This won't surprise me. Heaven forbid they give us something substantial. :-\

 

[Ruffgenius]

When they confirmed in Kickstarter there would be an offline mode;
All servers will be run by Frontier, but they are building in a failsafe for the future should they ever decide to switch them off, so that you can still play single player.
Until then you have the option for permanent offline single player
OR
synced single player - limited group multiplayer - unlimited multiplayer
The last 3 share the same universe, so what happens in SSP, LGMP or ULMP affects the other 2 - BUT in SSP you are the only PC and in LGMP you only play with people you want to - so no griefing
And griefing will also be combated in ULMP by use of a bounty system and NPC police close to core planets and stations.
permalinkparent
[–]MichaelBrookes 2 points 1 year ago
That is correct.

More proof quotes:
Elite will also work offline but you just won’t get a lot of the features. The whole point is that the world evolves due to the aggregated actions of the players.” – David Braben
“I’m always concerned with games that are server-based that you can’t then play them after the publisher or whoever turns the servers off. We’ll structure it in a way that you could play it entirely locally, so it would survive time if that makes sense.” - David Braben
“We plan to fund the servers off (i) the updates and (ii) people who want to buy cash. I don’t think it is a high risk - and in the worst case we will structure the game so that it can be run without the servers should we eventually have to shut them down.” - David Braben
“I hope you’ll all give the connected game a try as it is the way we want people to experiece it, but you have the option if it’s not your thing.” - Michael Brookes
“You can play offline without server connections and we will make sure you can play the game if we ever shut the servers down.” - Michael Brookes
“Space is big Most of the galaxy is unexplored when the game begins and there are plenty of resources to be discovered. There will also be an offline single player mode.” - Michael Brookes

Just in case you're in doubt about the announcement of offline mode actually being an offline mode please read said article https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2...e-non-committal-kickstarterbeta-refunds.shtml

great artical must read.

Want the real reason for no offline mode https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comme..._braben_cocreator_of_elite_creator_of/c7qe8c1

Ian Bell
~ In an interview with Ian Bell, he was asked the following:
Q: With the benefit of 20-20 hindsight, would you have done anything differently? If you had a time machine, what advice would you whisper in the ear of your twenty year-old self?
A: Don’t trust David to play fair by you.

If any of you don't know who Ian Bell is he is the Co-creator of the original Elite.

"refunds for those who wanted it were available, provided that they had not played the game. That is to say, if you pre-ordered the game, on the basis of an off-line mode, then you were entitled to receive your money back. If however you played the Beta, then decided you wanted your money back, well, no, the law is clear on this"

Wrong again dear sir.

http://www.reddit.com/r/elitedangerousrefunds/comments/2p2fuu/citizens_advice_bureau_uk_feedback/

They acutally gave refunds to people if you had played the game or not they breached UK consumer law.

"Pre-order Mercenary Pack decals and extra ships have already been added to your accounts"

how does that quote refer to kickstarter extras?

software laws in the UK changed in June you have the same rights now as though you we're buying from a shop this includes BETA people bought into the BETA because they believed there would be an offline mode.

See Pal not a clue

As for OP we need an official statement from FD and then they can put this matter to rest then we have no more threads.

So I ask FD, Have we been given the 1 of 5 ships if not when? (aprox)

Why do those who bought the game after release have the decals, paint jobs and insurance discounts?

 

[Unpleasant]

A lot of people that bought this game are in their 40s... Hardly the normal teen age group that buy games these days.

I bought a game, it had a release date, that date has passed and it's been released... But most on the official forums will say the game is unfinished, giving excuses like... It's a work in progress, it'll never be finished, it'll always be updated. blah blah blah.

Do I feel I've bought a complete game? nope. It's just a shell for content yet to come. Most that post on the forums have said as much.

 

[Darkflame]

The five extra were in addition to the pledged 25
So I wouldn't expect the additional five until after the rest of the 25 are made available.

Are you sure? Source?
Seems like they are getting too much ahead of themselves if they promised 30 :-/

*edit*

sorry, found the email that said it....would delete this but forum doesnt seem to let me.

Still....seems strange to promise so many more then is in already. I mean, why not 100 with no ETA rather then 30? Not saying this to flamebait, more that as the game is supposed to be continuously developed and these ships dont have a ETA.....makes me wonder why 30.

 

[Darkflame]

This won't surprise me. Heaven forbid they give us something substantial. :-\

Its more important to me that any new ships are interesting. Big or small doesn't matter. I dont want to have big in game advantages as a backer either.

But I do want something interesting. Something that feels important or special - maybe from a historic or lore standpoint, maybe just the design or rarity, or maybe something else.

A ship should ideally have character and while it might take awhile for that to really happen in game (ships logs,ship names...), it should be thought about a little when designing ships. These arnt just vessels to fight or trade...these are (sort of) our virtual homes.