Modes What is Sandro playing at?

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

I guess so much ignorance is just hopeless. How often did I already explain how it's exactly the other way around:
ENOUGH* PEOPLE NEED TO FIDDLE WITH THEIR ROUTER TO MAKE OPEN POSSIBLE AT ALL!
Hear me? This time perhaps?

* at least one in each instance, otherwise no host -> no contact. So difficult to understand?
And that's my dear Open Only friends is the whole problem that you can't just ignore away!



You're just the right one talking about nonsense..

lol. Just because I cannot see them. Does not mean someone else cant. Ill never see everyone. But other people around the world can. And you can anchor in. We pvpers do it all the time.

They are also adding communications with squadrons. This will make winging and instancing even easier. IF people intentionally start removing themselves from the scenario. Fdev should just hand out bans at this point.

Either way, your issue is a non issue in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Riverside]

So if you do it. You wont have a problem if its changed?

That is a false conclusion Skid. Just because a change wouldn't affect me personally doesn't meant I'm not pro-choice. I support the removal of the benefits to CLogging but I have never been affected by it either way. I support having some sort of meaning to PvP in the game but I don't PvP for the sake of it, I just share my environment with others & sometimes that means I get shot at.

I recently won back my home system that had been flipped while I was out exploring, it took me three months & while I was opposed I had no idea who I was competing against until one of their members sat & waited in the main dock for me after I'd won. I did it all in Open, I didn't board flip, I didn't try to hide at all and I did it alone. I couldn't say whether they were playing in a group, solo or just playing at a different time from me, or even just had latency too high to match make with me, it didn't matter.

We came to a diplomatic solution in the end, not a single shot was fired against another player but it could have easily gone that way. There is more to this game than conflict, and there is more to player conflict than shooting at each other

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

That is a false conclusion Skid. Just because a change wouldn't affect me personally doesn't meant I'm not pro-choice. I support the removal of the benefits to CLogging but I have never been affected by it either way. I support having some sort of meaning to PvP in the game but I don't PvP for the sake of it, I just share my environment with others & sometimes that means I get shot at.

I recently won back my home system that had been flipped while I was out exploring, it took me three months & while I was opposed I had no idea who I was competing against until one of their members sat & waited in the main dock for me after I'd won. I did it all in Open, I didn't board flip, I didn't try to hide at all and I did it alone. I couldn't say whether they were playing in a group, solo or just playing at a different time from me, or even just had latency too high to match make with me, it didn't matter.

We came to a diplomatic solution in the end, not a single shot was fired against another player but it could have easily gone that way. There is more to this game than conflict, and there is more to player conflict than shooting at each other

Again just because you dont do it. Doesnt mean others dont. And it happens. Consistently.

 

[Riverside]

Again just because you dont do it. Doesnt mean others dont. And it happens. Consistently.

Yes, I agree with that. But you are too invested in the solution. It won't solve your problems and in the grand scheme of things it won't make a difference to the outcome of any set of transactions. It may make it easier to work out who is opposing you but that won't actually give you an advantage, because they will have access to the same information.

What works, and can be done already, is to be friendly & approachable in the game rather than looking like a PvPer to others. You don't get as much pew pew fun time but you can actually get people to talk to you that otherwise would just jump away to avoid an obvious PvPer. When I was approached by what turned out to be my opposition I was in a T-7.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Yes, I agree with that. But you are too invested in the solution. It won't solve your problems and in the grand scheme of things it won't make a difference to the outcome of any set of transactions. It may make it easier to work out who is opposing you but that won't actually give you an advantage, because they will have access to the same information.

What works, and can be done already, is to be friendly & approachable in the game rather than looking like a PvPer to others. You don't get as much pew pew fun time but you can actually get people to talk to you that otherwise would just jump away to avoid an obvious PvPer. When I was approached by what turned out to be my opposition I was in a T-7.

There have been many cases where I would have been perfectly capable of stopping the guys and many others as well. But instead we have to wait to see what their move is to counter it.

There should be no reason you fight people for a year and a half without consequences. And then they pop out to attack haulers when its convenient for them. It happens in powerplay and the BGS.

Its unbalanced. People experience this all the time.

If you do it in open. Then nothing changes for you. The only thing this would stop is people affecting one another in solo and private. Modes where you specifically remove yourself from everyone else.

Now please. None of this is right.

 

[Riverside]

Now please. None of this is right.

I understand your view point but we are not going to agree on this. Question why others do not want to play with you but are happy to with me. It's because I'm conscious of how I present myself (here and in-game).

Now I'm pretty opinionated & not the most approachable person but however I stack up on the scale of approachability, compare your own persona & perhaps look inward for a solution rather than only blaming the game rules.

Many blameless players would be affected. That I would not isn't important.

 

[Jockey79]

I spent a full month flying around a busy part of open mode and seen exactly 2 ships - in a month.

The joys of cheap internet and a heavily instanced game

(and I was only able to see them after my kids had gone to bed and were not longer streaming YouTube / Netflix)

Funny how the game is based around playing the BGS not each other.
Not even sure why some folks think this is a competitive PvP game, nothing about its design screams Call of Duty in space.
Even Power Play is just PvE token pushing - direct pew pew doesn't do anything and can be ignored.

Oh well, I'll just enjoy open mode all alone and continue to laugh at all this moaning while I mess with the BGS.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Again just because you dont do it. Doesnt mean others dont. And it happens. Consistently.

Yes, it does, and as an Open player, I don't care.

I already don't see the 97% of the players who could might oppose me in Powerplay or the BGS, simply because they don't play at the same time as I do. When you include the instancing difficulties that can arise even when actively trying to instance with someone overseas, that number rises to about 99% of the players who could possibly oppose me. The 0.3% that are in other modes are more of a rounding error than anything else in my book. If I can't succeed in my goals due to being opposed by a rounding error, then I'm a failure at BGS manipulation.

I do, however, want this game to succeed financially. I want Frontier Developments to continue to expand this game, adding new content, things to do, and squashing bugs. Driving away the most passionate of your customer base, the ones who buy cosmetics because they're fully engaged in the most interesting parts of this game, is how games fail. I've seen this time and time in other MMOs I've tried. Some end up going the PvP flag route and survive. Most simply have to shut down their servers because they've run out of money.

In my opinion, Open mode in Elite Dangerous has more players than it would normally due to Frontier's brilliant tri-Mode system. The players in Open are there because they want to be, not because they have to be to access the game content they enjoy. As a result, they "git gud." And when most players are "gud," this creates an environment where the type of players I have no desire to interact with don't have fun, because pretty much everyone is either unkillable, or have the ability to kill them. As a result they, find other amusements.

This is a win for everyone in Open... well, except for those who are such failures at PvP that they need to attack PvE players to get their kills. And to be honest, I don't care about them. They tend to suffer from "spontaneous networking failure syndrome" as it is, and they're such terrible conversationalists that even the NPCs are more interesting to talk to.

 

[Jockey79]

Yes, it does, and as an Open player, I don't care.

I already don't see the 97% of the players who could might oppose me in Powerplay or the BGS, simply because they don't play at the same time as I do. When you include the instancing difficulties that can arise even when actively trying to instance with someone overseas, that number rises to about 99% of the players who could possibly oppose me. The 0.3% that are in other modes are more of a rounding error than anything else in my book. If I can't succeed in my goals due to being opposed by a rounding error, then I'm a failure at BGS manipulation.

I do, however, want this game to succeed financially. I want Frontier Developments to continue to expand this game, adding new content, things to do, and squashing bugs. Driving away the most passionate of your customer base, the ones who buy cosmetics because they're fully engaged in the most interesting parts of this game, is how games fail. I've seen this time and time in other MMOs I've tried. Some end up going the PvP flag route and survive. Most simply have to shut down their servers because they've run out of money.

In my opinion, Open mode in Elite Dangerous has more players than it would normally due to Frontier's brilliant tri-Mode system. The players in Open are there because they want to be, not because they have to be to access the game content they enjoy. As a result, they "git gud." And when most players are "gud," this creates an environment where the type of players I have no desire to interact with don't have fun, because pretty much everyone is either unkillable, or have the ability to kill them. As a result they, find other amusements.

This is a win for everyone in Open... well, except for those who are such failures at PvP that they need to attack PvE players to get their kills. And to be honest, I don't care about them. They tend to suffer from "spontaneous networking failure syndrome" as it is, and they're such terrible conversationalists that even the NPCs are more interesting to talk to.

The problem is, some people would rather see the game fail as a PvP game than let it succeed as a PvE game.
It's not as if the gaming market is currently saturated with PvP games for them to play is it....

 

[Riverside]

The problem is, some people would rather see the game fail as a PvP game than let it succeed as a PvE game.
It's not as if the gaming market is currently saturated with PvP games for them to play is it....

Well we only have our own experiences & circles of friends to compare to.

When the AI changed in 2.1 my friend list almost completely emptied, the people I had met (in open) up to that point weren't looking for that kind of challenge on every other instance change. I still hate the rank related interdictions, it's just a crass mechanic. So ime people want PvE all the way, right?

But others have loads of PvP-type friends & saw them all go off to play other games with various other updates (or lack of them). Who knows which community would earn more cash for FDev?

Mostly I think I'd just like the game to receive more attention. With the JWE launch out of the way maybe ED will get a bit more attention again

 

[Darkfyre99]

Who knows which community would earn more cash for FDev?

According to thirty years history of MMO development, no one community is truly sufficient to maintain an MMO long term. That’s why a game that appeals to PvE players, PvP players, the “PvP curious,” role-players, co-op players, and even player-killers is considered the holy grail of MMO development. The problem is that two of those groups are rather high maintenance, and one group in particular has a long history of driving away so many members of the other groups that the game as to shut down their servers.

I consider Frontier’s tri-Mode system to be the best solution to that problem I’ve seen, and the way that Sandro keeps picking away at it concerns me.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

It has absolutely nothing to do with who can see whom, all you just proved is you still haven't got the coherences (and I doubt you will - not in this life anymore). I miss the most basic sense of logic in your statements and there's nothing to lol about; it's almost tragicomical. But at this point I have to give up with you, it's really hopeless...[wacko]

I mean, its the reason Sandro expressed open only for powerplay.

Hard to argue against that.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

And even that you haven't got right. Or how do you explain his latest backpedaling? You don't realize that this whole OOPP motion was mainly a clever marketing move. It won't come, trust me. But feel free to bash at ghosts until kingdom comes.

But in one point I actually have to agree with you: It really makes no sense to argue against something that never will come. LOL

LOL. Alright. Whatever you say

 

[Riverside]

I consider Frontier’s tri-Mode system to be the best solution to that problem I’ve seen, and the way that Sandro keeps picking away at it concerns me.

This is my first & still only MMO-type game. I agree the black/white lists are a good, practical solution to allow people to play with (or without) whoever they want.

I see a need for meaningful conflict between players though, if only because co-op mechanisms have been added and it makes sense that there is a reason to directly compete as well as cooperate. I proposed a new layer of manipulation on the basis that it would not remove a feature from other players. However if PPOO wouldn't affect many existing players it's a worthwhile candidate because re-purposing existing assets would be a 'cheaper' way (in terms of dev time) to attract new players.

With hindsight I'm inclined to agree with picommander that it's more about the marketing - it got people talking & if the winds change it could be implemented reasonably quickly to react to competition in the market.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The only people against it are the ones that dont want to be stopped or defended against.

You don't get to state other people's motivations. I'm against it, and I don't care about being stopped or defended. So you're wrong. You state and defend your case, let other people do the same.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Yes, it does, and as an Open player, I don't care.

I already don't see the 97% of the players who could might oppose me in Powerplay or the BGS, simply because they don't play at the same time as I do. When you include the instancing difficulties that can arise even when actively trying to instance with someone overseas, that number rises to about 99% of the players who could possibly oppose me. The 0.3% that are in other modes are more of a rounding error than anything else in my book. If I can't succeed in my goals due to being opposed by a rounding error, then I'm a failure at BGS manipulation.

I do, however, want this game to succeed financially. I want Frontier Developments to continue to expand this game, adding new content, things to do, and squashing bugs. Driving away the most passionate of your customer base, the ones who buy cosmetics because they're fully engaged in the most interesting parts of this game, is how games fail. I've seen this time and time in other MMOs I've tried. Some end up going the PvP flag route and survive. Most simply have to shut down their servers because they've run out of money.

In my opinion, Open mode in Elite Dangerous has more players than it would normally due to Frontier's brilliant tri-Mode system. The players in Open are there because they want to be, not because they have to be to access the game content they enjoy. As a result, they "git gud." And when most players are "gud," this creates an environment where the type of players I have no desire to interact with don't have fun, because pretty much everyone is either unkillable, or have the ability to kill them. As a result they, find other amusements.

This is a win for everyone in Open... well, except for those who are such failures at PvP that they need to attack PvE players to get their kills. And to be honest, I don't care about them. They tend to suffer from "spontaneous networking failure syndrome" as it is, and they're such terrible conversationalists that even the NPCs are more interesting to talk to.

Outstanding! o7

 

[Jockey79]

....I agree the black/white lists are a good, practical solution to allow people to play with (or without) whoever they want....

This is why locking content to a mode won't work, if the idea is to lock content to create more interactions between players then the block feature will only make open only fail.
As folks will only block any players giving them any opposition. And removing the block feature will only hurt Frontier, as they will get swamped with reports of perceived "griefing" and harassment they'll have to deal with.

So the whole idea falls down.

In order to create more interactions and attract people to Power Play, they need to make it more appealing to the wider player base than the pew pew crowd.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

You don't get to state other people's motivations. I'm against it, and I don't care about being stopped or defended. So you're wrong. You state and defend your case, let other people do the same.

Just because someone doesnt do it. Doesnt mean its not happening ziggy.

Pretty much all of the Federal Powerplayers are in open. And most of Yuri Grom is in solo or private.

Same context with the BGS. People are free to state their minds here. But them pointing out they dont do it. Does not justify there doesnt need to be changes. Or that someone else is not.

 

[Jockey79]

Pretty much all of the Federal Powerplayers are in open. And most of Yuri Grom is in solo or private.

You have no idea how many people who are with Yuri play in Solo or PGs or how many Feds play in Open. That information hasn't been given out.
So please don't state it like it's a fact, when the only facts we know are the majority of players play in open mode and the majority of players don't PvP.

Unless Frontier decided to publish the numbers, you or I will never know how many people play in Open, PG or Solo to make claims like you did.

 

[wrmiller]

You have no idea how many people who are with Yuri play in Solo or PGs or how many Feds play in Open. That information hasn't been given out.
So please don't state it like it's a fact, when the only facts we know are the majority of players play in open mode and the majority of players don't PvP.

Unless Frontier decided to publish the numbers, you or I will never know how many people play in Open, PG or Solo to make claims like you did.

But, but some folks think that everything that comes out of their mouth is fact!