Discussion What is the most efficient way to crowdsource the 3D system coordinates

[TornSoul]

So I think I've found a system from the FD Gamma list that doesn't exist. It certainly isn't where it is s'posed to be and the name doesn't work in the GM.

Djali -81.96875 52.3125 59.53125

Can't search on Djali : Confirmed.

At that position is however a system called "Herculis Sector QD-T B3-4" instead - Which is searchable.

Weird one - Please ticket it.

 

[wolverine2710]

Recap of a couple of problems found recently with how FD calculates distances ingame - and the solution.

Wow. Nice work. Would be a waste it gets snowed under. Near the end of the OP I've added the following:

"For those commanders who want to develop tools to calculate coordinates there are some pitfalls because of the way FD stores/calculates the coordinates - in for example the Procedural Generated engine. This aside from the fact that all coordinates lay on a 1/32 LY grid. Commander TornSoul has recapped all the things found here."

 

[CMDRKNac]

Minor update, now system data (some, more like stations, soon) can be sent on my web app (http://www.elitedangerouscentral.com/) all the data will be saved and pushed to TGC as soon as it's ready for it. Unfortunately the hosting is doing some service upgrades so there may be temporal outages until tomorrow (so don't freak if you get error 503). I'll be adding a 'moderating' system to purge as much bad submissions as humanly possible (the barebones is already in, is a matter of writing a bit more code).

 

[wolverine2710]

Minor update, now system data (some, more like stations, soon) can be sent on my web app (http://www.elitedangerouscentral.com/) all the data will be saved and pushed to TGC as soon as it's ready for it. Unfortunately the hosting is doing some service upgrades so there may be temporal outages until tomorrow (so don't freak if you get error 503). I'll be adding a 'moderating' system to purge as much bad submissions as humanly possible (the barebones is already in, is a matter of writing a bit more code).

My headache is turning into a migraine. How on earth can I keep up with all those new tools in my 3rd party thread. My backlog increases instead of decreases. LOL. Keep 'm coming.

 

[RedWizzard]

Can't search on Djali : Confirmed.

At that position is however a system called "Herculis Sector QD-T B3-4" instead - Which is searchable.

Weird one - Please ticket it.

I found another case like this last night - expected system is missing but there is another one in the same location (i.e. the name doesn't match what's in Michael's spreadsheet). I don't have my notes with me so I'll update with the names later.

When I was verifying the pre-gamma systems I checked a couple of the pre-gamma reference systems that were missing and found that they were renamed too (DX Cancri was one). I didn't find a single case where a system was actually moved or removed.

TornSoul, what do you think we should do with these? Change the name of the reference system in TGC/systems.json or delete it and add the renamed version through the usual process (i.e. collect distances for it)?

Also, do we need to verify the 18,000+ reference systems? We'd need an organised approach and a lot of volunteers to do that in a reasonable amount of time.

 

[TornSoul]

TornSoul, what do you think we should do with these? Change the name of the reference system in TGC/systems.json or delete it and add the renamed version through the usual process (i.e. collect distances for it)?

Actually I'd keep both.
Ie. don't delete the wrongly name system.
And then let nature take it's course - and maybe the new name will get added or not (with same coordinates hopefully)

At some time in the future, say 1 or 3 months interval, run a check for duplicate coordinates (I expect they will be fairly few) - and then check the ingame map (just to be sure) - And then "demote" the wrongly named system to CR=0.
*Maybe* a year or so from release (when all changes ought to be done with - probably sooner but...) then perhaps decide to actually remove the wrongly named ones entirely.

I'm mostly envisioning that some systems might still get renamed for whatever reason.

Maybe Michaels list included systems to be renamed in the future due to events happening or.. something.
Point is - Who knows... So better to leave them for now.

Also, do we need to verify the 18,000+ reference systems? We'd need an organised approach and a lot of volunteers to do that in a reasonable amount of time.

I'd honestly let nature take it's course again.
Personally what I do, is set the GM to show systems by economy color - Which means I can easily pick those that already have coordinates (as long as I stay in that bubble ofc).
The side effect of that is that over time, those known systems will get distances attached to them, and will thus be verifiable.
Sure - If someone wants to undertake a systematic verification of them - Go for it. I just prefer to let it happen by itself.

 

[burzum]

Hey guys, I've started yet another API app which is completely open source (GPLv3). So far this is just the work of a few hours but take a look at it...

https://bitbucket.org/burzum793/elite-data-app/overview

It is using php and the CakePHP framework. I think php is a wide spread language and many people should be able to contribute to it. Please read the contribution guidelines and the installation instructions. I recommend you to take a look at the database schema available in /config/Migrations to get an idea of what the app already provides DB wise.

• Login and registration is already working but no permission system is in place yet.
• Most HTTP GET calls of the RESTful API already work
• The app is providing a proper RESTful API
• Returns JSON and XML
• There is a shell available to import the data from https://github.com/SteveHodge/ed-systems but it's not processing everything yet but systems, stations, factions and government types.

I would not yet set up a public place to use it as I need to implement a proper authorization scheme first. Also any suggestions and feedback are welcome.

Is any one here good with Vagrant and would like to add it to the app?

 

[Athan]

The possible fly in the ointment with renamed systems is that FD might fix things their end and thus we need the current 'missing' name in our databases.

But in the meantime things like route planners need access to the in-game name else it just confuses people (as that 'Djali' example did, I checked this thread before posting to find it had already been pointed out after I'd had to investigate it myself and fix it in my local DB). As someone did indeed add the current in-game name to ESDC and I pulled that I deleted 'Djali' from my local DB. If it receives an update in EDSC I know it'll be back in my local DB though :S . At the very least I'll have to start flagging system names as bad so that my route planner ignores them.

I'm wondering if examples like 'Djali' are backer-named but failed to be applied. In which case FD is likely to fix it at some point (assuming the backer in question complains).

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Hmmm from https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=70946&p=1175992#post1175992

Some system's contents will have changed.


Michael

I wonder if that's going to just be tweaking stations and the like or wholesale change to economies, and possibly meaning some extra stars could be in a future co-ordinate dump. It at least sounds like they're not going to wholesale move/rename systems.

 

[maddavo]

Can't search on Djali : Confirmed.

At that position is however a system called "Herculis Sector QD-T B3-4" instead - Which is searchable.

Weird one - Please ticket it.

... and I think I've found a system that has changed its name from Beta3

"Hun Banja" was an unverified system from Beta 3 and at -84.4375 16.90625 -60.40625
now called "Cephei Sector IW-W B1-1"

How do we submit deletions/name changes to EDSC? Obviously no API for that... PM?

EDIT: Ninja'd. Agree with what TornSoul said, keep both and cleanup after dust settles from release. But need some way for tools to ignore the systems that aren't in-game at the moment.

 

[RedWizzard]

The Solution
rw then gave a JavaScript solution in post #1739 which was completely unreadable (I think he forgot to use CODE tags - and instead used QUOTE tags - or something...)

That was a lazy copy and paste from me.

I've played around with that a bit, and eliminated most of all the conversions and parentheses (making it hard to read/understand)

To come up with

        static float length(float x, float y, float z){
            return 
                (float)Math.Sqrt(
                    (float)(x*x + y*y) + z*z
                );
        }        
        
        static float lengthRounded(float x, float y, float z){
            double p = 100;
            return (float)(Math.Round(length(x,y,z)*p)/p);
        }

Might be worth testing this against all distances in TGC. Another good test is Sagittarius A* as that was still a problem when we were only converting the final output to float (in my Javascript version it need frounds around each multiplication).

Sagittarius A* details:

Spoiler

 {
    "name": "Sagittarius A*",
    "calculated": true,
    "region": "Gamma",
    "contributor": "RedWizzard",
    "contributed": "2014-10-23T11:34:21.000Z",
    "x": 25.21875,
    "y": -20.90625,
    "z": 25899.96875,
    "distances": [
      {
        "system": "Aulin",
        "distance": "25895.313"
      },
      {
        "system": "Ross 905",
        "distance": "25907.248"
      },
      {
        "system": "41 Gamma Serpentis",
        "distance": "25877.164"
      },
      {
        "system": "Theta Draconis",
        "distance": "25900.135"
      },
      {
        "system": "SDSS J1416+1348",
        "distance": "25888.027"
      },
      {
        "system": "Wyrd",
        "distance": "25903.984"
      },
      {
        "system": "LHS 2884",
        "distance": "25898.322"
      },
      {
        "system": "Keries",
        "distance": "25887.457"
      },
      {
        "system": "h Draconis",
        "distance": "25904.006"
      },
      {
        "system": "35 Draconis",
        "distance": 25928.682
      },
      {
        "system": "Ross 868",
        "distance": 25878.734
      },
      {
        "system": "LTT 15294",
        "distance": 25906.707
      },
      {
        "system": "LP 102-320",
        "distance": 25896.953
      },
      {
        "system": "Ross 1051",
        "distance": 25905.189
      },
      {
        "system": "LHS 2948",
        "distance": 25885.045
      },
      {
        "system": "LHS 2921",
        "distance": 25896.58
      },
      {
        "system": "LTT 14761",
        "distance": 25919.563
      },
      {
        "system": "HIP 93119",
        "distance": 25934.396
      },
      {
        "system": "Tun",
        "distance": 25917.637
      },
      {
        "system": "LP 1-52",
        "distance": 25933.406
      },
      {
        "system": "LHS 3877",
        "distance": 25931.023
      },
      {
        "system": "Gera",
        "distance": 25933.834
      },
      {
        "system": "LTT 16979",
        "distance": 25952.859
      },
      {
        "system": "HR 158",
        "distance": 25955.365
      },
      {
        "system": "BD+87 118",
        "distance": 25937.928
      },
      {
        "system": "Aeolus",
        "distance": 25931.656
      },
      {
        "system": "LHS 140",
        "distance": 25923.125
      },
      {
        "system": "Hyperion",
        "distance": 25916.816
      },
      {
        "system": "LHS 3558",
        "distance": 25904.47
      },
      {
        "system": "Altair",
        "distance": 25889
      },
      {
        "system": "18 Comae Berenices",
        "distance": 25907.91
      }
    ]
  }

 

[RedWizzard]

Actually I'd keep both.
Ie. don't delete the wrongly name system.
And then let nature take it's course - and maybe the new name will get added or not (with same coordinates hopefully)

At some time in the future, say 1 or 3 months interval, run a check for duplicate coordinates (I expect they will be fairly few) - and then check the ingame map (just to be sure) - And then "demote" the wrongly named system to CR=0.
*Maybe* a year or so from release (when all changes ought to be done with - probably sooner but...) then perhaps decide to actually remove the wrongly named ones entirely.

Ok, I'll do something similar in systems.json: I'll leave the ref systems that have been renamed but set the region to "Gamma (renamed)".

The case I found last night is: "Siguruba" is currently called "Col 285 Sector BG-T b18-4".

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

... and I think I've found a system that has changed its name from Beta3

"Hun Banja" was an unverified system from Beta 3 and at -84.4375 16.90625 -60.40625
now called "Cephei Sector IW-W B1-1"

There were 45 pre-gamma reference systems that couldn't be found in gamma by name. The two I checked ("DX Cancri" and "WX Ursa Majoris") had both been renamed. Yours is another rename. I bet the other 42 have also been renamed.

 

[TornSoul]

If it receives an update in EDSC I know it'll be back in my local DB though :S .

But it would only ever get en EDSC update if it was actually ingame.
As it is now, Djali will never get an update - as people won't find it ingame - and it'll never be in an update, and your local DB is "safe".

 

[TornSoul]

The case I found last night is: "Siguruba" is currently called "Col 285 Sector BG-T b18-4".

Is that one that is in Michaels Gamma list, but not actually ingame now?

 

[RedWizzard]

Is that one that is in Michaels Gamma list, but not actually ingame now?

Yes, Siburuba is in the gamma list but not in game. Col 285 Sector BG-T b18-4 is at those coordinates.

 

[wolverine2710]

Took my sweet time BUT......

OP of this thread, list 2.

• KevinMillican. Elite Dangerous : Pilot Log Book. Webbased. Shares info gathered by others. Thread. Website.

OP of the 3rd party tools thread, section "captains log"

Name: Elite Dangerous : Pilot Log Book
Author: KevinMillican
Description: Elite Dangerous : Pilot Log Book. Webbased.
Website: Elite Dangerous : Pilot Log Book
Source available:
Thread: Shared Online Pilot Logs
Compatible with Gamma: Yes
Comments: Contains info about systems, station/platforms in it, coordinates, commodities, Black market etc. It even has photo's of station/platform. I believe its updated from TGC (for system names and coordinates). When TGC is able to handle static information like stations etc I believe the intention is to upload that info to TGC. Not sure if it has a web-api to retrieve information from it. But it has an export functionality.

@KevinMillican
Does it have an API for storing data in it?
Do you plan to store data in TGC - once it supports that?

 

[wolverine2710]

Commanders I can't keep up. I know I have missed 2-3 tools which were reported here but can't find 'm back - easily. If you are not on the OP of this thread and/or the 3rd party thread PLEASE DO post it here or in that other thread AND it will be added.

 

[Andargor]

Commanders I can't keep up. I know I have missed 2-3 tools which were reported here but can't find 'm back - easily. If you are not on the OP of this thread and/or the 3rd party thread PLEASE DO post it here or in that other thread AND it will be added.

You will just have to re-read the thread from the start.

 

[wolverine2710]

You will just have to re-read the thread from the start.

No good deed goes unpunished ;->

 

[Athan]

Apparently "Core Sys Sector CB-O a6-3 | -6.4375 | -28.5 | 24.9375" is wrong, "Core Sys Sector CB-O a6-0" (last digit zero not three) is what it should be called. I've not time to check this myself right now.

It does raise a point though; do we want some sort of official reporting mechanism for errors in the database? I'm thinking here of something I could link to from the name of each system (or something along those lines) in the output of my route planner.

 

[RedWizzard]

Apparently "Core Sys Sector CB-O a6-3 | -6.4375 | -28.5 | 24.9375" is wrong, "Core Sys Sector CB-O a6-0" (last digit zero not three) is what it should be called. I've not time to check this myself right now.

Eyeballing it in the galaxy map, I'd say Core Sys Sector CB-O a6-3 is correct. Core Sys Sector CB-O a6-0 also exists but it is not at the above coordinates, looks like approx. (-13.2, -34.2, 15.5).