A projectile velocity buff would probably the best, keeping the rest unchanged. It would still do comparably pitiful damage, but at least hit consistently beyond point blank range.
What is the Point of Manticore’s Oppressor?
- Thread starter CMDR The Riz
- Start date
And you can throw away the AR-50 and the laser rifle.
No, they'd still do more damage vs shields/armor and have even better projectile speed/hitscan.
Not necessarily true. Recall the Fed vs. Yuri Grom CG from a little while back; I fought exclusively for the Feds in the remote hope that I could get my hands on those Short Range Blaster / Rapid Fire Phasing Sequence Multicannons for my Courier (Hey! FDEV! Bring those back! Please?
):I did that almost exclusively with my G5 Aphelion with the Scope and Extended Magazine mods and some support from my then-G3'd L6. The Aphelion (and AR-50) can certainly hold its own in a CZ.
Well, I am confused too, I did not said anything about headshot dmg apart that this mod is good on it (like on any other full auto), and by 3.0 dmg I only meant that It should be buffed to that value, from 2.4 base dmg as it currently has at G5, so it would feel that its high recoil per shot, from this weapon, would be justified.
More of recoil weapon has, means higher dmg in shooter games. And this gun does opposite of that, it has highest recoil and doing least amount dmg per shot than other Assalut rifles. Its bullet speed is more than twice slower than kinetic, wich makes it useless for long - medium distances, it works somehow only upclose. If anything, its only in-door weapon, and its still worse than other close-up weapons by a lot, if I had to fight inside a buliding, I would rather take my C-44 or shotgun. Those are for vastly much more better suited for this role.
Thats why it needs be buffed. Opressor should had its niche, currently does not. Useless on long range or medium, due of high recoil and slow bullet. For upclose, its not even decent, due of its small dmg.
Well, stabilty it does almost negate recoil, on most guns, but never fully deleted. Its simply lowers that to point where recoil is not an issue anymore. Without this mod, you need correct aim a lot more than without it. It really helps to score headshots on larger distances.
Add stabilty to this, and thats what I use on my rest of full auto weapons. For dual setups(both same wep as main), instead of scope, stowed reload so you dont have to reload anymore, just swap to next gun and continue fire. Dual G5 Alphelions are crazy with this setup.
Stability, mag size, HSD, scope. All of these mods are work really well together for one purpose, to be able score headshots easier. You wanna able to use full auto on distance, and still able to score headshots like for 70% of hits, and thats what stabilty is for. More bullets in magazine, never is bad, allows to kill more before need to reload. Headshot dmg is obvious, its only direct dmg buff from mods and it does lot of diffrence. Scope makes better zoom means easier time to aim at heads. And it looks really nice from cosmetic point of view as bonus.
Its more for PVP than PVE, as when you are about to fight someone who has same weapons as you do, you want be able to kill them faster than they do. Better handling, stowed reload, faster reload, hip fire accuracy, no one of these, will help you in sake to kill faster, and if opponent has might have Stability, mag size, HSD and you dont, you are at disadvantage.
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Adding DR mod to the calculations:
Plasma: 27.777(i.e. 28) body shots instead of 25, 18.5(i.e. 19) headshots instead of 17. This adds .448 and .299 seconds to the calcs.
Kinetic: 16.5(i.e. 17) body shots instead of 15, 8.2(i.e. 9) headshots instead of 8. This adds .2 and .1 seconds to the calcs.
You swap from the eclipse to the AR-50 kill the G5 dominator with body shots AND swap back to the eclipse, you'll be waiting .545 seconds more for your friend to finish with his opponent.
If your friend kills his opponent with nothing but headshots, and you use bodyshots you kill them faster. 2.667 vs 2.835.
You both use headshots, and you finish pulling your eclipse back out the same time your friend has killed the other G5 Dom: 2.836 vs 2.834.
It's slow enough that I'm not sure the oppressor can kill faster than the health regen on a healthpack even with headshots.
My first thought was to put Stability into that fourth slot; however, since I've played other FPS's that have higher recoil on average (Destiny 2 for example) and that the Oppressor's is mostly vertical, I've gotten use to the Oppressor's recoil pattern and personally don't value Stability for it too much more than the others. I do have Stability on my carbines and my other Oppressor, though.
You are probably correct here given the available Engineering options, though an individual player's recoil management skills could certainly negate the need for the Stability mod and thus they could chose another that compliments their playstyle (assuming there are any, which is what my issue is). Ultimately I'd say it would depend upon the player in question for how much of an impact the presence of the Stability mod would make.
For me, I'll probably end up putting Stability on my second Oppressor when I'm done working on my Eclipse.
I'm beginning to rethink my qualification on a damage increase to the Oppressor via the Headshot Multiplier...
I'd be fine if the two-gun waltz is at most 0.15 seconds faster than just the Oppressor; a full third to half a second is quite a long time in an engagement lasting 2-3 seconds.
I imagined Oppressor being the gimmick of a LMG but it's more of a weapon meant to become overwhelmed by ai's. It is an oppressor indeed, for the one using it, that is. Just boot up some good old quake 3 and spam yourself some REAL automated plasma gun... Or boot up unreal tournament and end up hardly ever using the llink gun's primary shot (as it looks highly similar to the oppressor albeit hits for more) and instead using the secondary beam... or have a fwend link transfer you so you can do double the damage wait is thiis nostalgia or some hints of ideas to use from great references
... ah right, no it's because I get ctd the moment I get to the main menu since U10.
Seriously tthough. Stop torturing yourself wiitth the Oppressor. I've tried fully engineering one, the only variant if I'm struck with masochism would be replacing stability with headshot.
Just use it for the sake of training t.o.t with plasma projectiles. That's it.
... ah right, no it's because I get ctd the moment I get to the main menu since U10.
Seriously tthough. Stop torturing yourself wiitth the Oppressor. I've tried fully engineering one, the only variant if I'm struck with masochism would be replacing stability with headshot.
Just use it for the sake of training t.o.t with plasma projectiles. That's it.
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IMHO the Plasma guns are only good for PvE against the AI and rubbish against humans. I took part in one of the streams with Sally and Arf where they did ground combat with the community. Trying to hit a moving player with plasma is awful! Where as the NPC's are more static and I find plasma more effective in time to kill.
Yeah, the Oppressor is a turd sandwich, absolute worst FPS weapon in the game. Needs a massive buff before i would consider using it on anything other than an Artemis suit (which never encounters enemies, so its just for screenshots)
Seems to me that a combo of Aphelion and AR50, both with fast handling, is incredibly good and i struggle to see any use for anything else in CZs, other than the rocket launcher maybe. The executioner and tormentor are great for assassination missions, but the projectile speed makes them a bit risky to use in a CZ for my money.
Seems to me that a combo of Aphelion and AR50, both with fast handling, is incredibly good and i struggle to see any use for anything else in CZs, other than the rocket launcher maybe. The executioner and tormentor are great for assassination missions, but the projectile speed makes them a bit risky to use in a CZ for my money.
I'm loving Tormentor. Fast reload, noise supressor and that outside noise supressor, also hip fire accuracy. Fun fun fun, outside and inside. Basically the only gun I am using. Ah, the plasma sniper, too, but only from afar, naturally.
EDIT: on topic: Opressor? What's that?
EDIT: on topic: Opressor? What's that?
Just wanted to add this as I was thinking about it - the TTK calculations above assume point-blank barrel-in-your-face DPS races or hitscan weaponry. The majority of Odyssey's weapons fire projectiles that need to travel, so I went ahead and accounted for bullet travel in the table below.
Some assumptions first:
An extra half a second is added to the Oppressor's TTK out at its Effective Range of 35m, bringing its Bodyshot TTK to 4.2 seconds and Headshot TTK to three seconds.
Three seconds is an eternity in an FPS engagement. Typical FPS TTKs range from sub-one second (think Destiny 2, CS:GO, COD) to the one-two second range (Halo Infinite). In addition, these calculations assume no shields are used - the actual full TTK is longer. I'd like to calculate by how much, but none of the shield resistance values are stated for our Odyssey suits so I'll need to figure those out first. They really should be there, to be honest...
In any case, this is a good example of why the Oppressor needs a velocity buff as a half-second penalty to its TTK at its supposed Effective Range is rather counterintuitive.
Some assumptions first:
- These are shields-down, health-only calculations
- Target is stationary at the Effective Range of both the Oppressor (35 m) and the AR-50 (50 m)
- Target is wearing an un-Engineered G5 Dominator suit
- Damage Falloff is ignored for the purposes of these tests
- Weapon projectile velocities:
- Oppressor: ~70 m/s (checked with the new Point/Ping feature, down from my Alpha measurement of ~75 m/s)
- AR-50: ~180 m/s (Alpha value, remains unchanged AFAIK)
- The Eclipse / AR-50 results include a combined Swap Time penalty of 0.967 seconds to simulate a player swapping between both weapons
- Time-of-flight was simulated as a delay before damage could be applied to the target, as once the first bullet arrives the only remaining delay is the weapon's rate of fire to sustain the bullet train / cadence
| Bodyshot Count | Bodyshot TTK (s) | Headshot Count | Headshot TTK (s) | Swap Time (s) | Projectile Velocity (m/s) | Time of Flight at 35 m (s) | Time of Flight at 50 m (s) | Adjusted Bodyshot TTK @ 35m (s) | Adjusted Headshot TTK @ 35m (s) | Adjusted Bodyshot TTK @ 50 m (s) | Adjusted Headshot TTK @ 50m (s) | |
| Oppressor | 25 | 3.73 | 17 | 2.49 | - | 70 | 0.500 | 0.714 | 4.23 | 2.99 | 4.44 | 3.20 |
| Eclipse / AR-50 | 15 | 1.50 | 8 | 0.8 | 0.967 | 180 | 0.194 | 0.278 | 2.66 | 1.96 | 2.74 | 2.04 |
An extra half a second is added to the Oppressor's TTK out at its Effective Range of 35m, bringing its Bodyshot TTK to 4.2 seconds and Headshot TTK to three seconds.
Three seconds is an eternity in an FPS engagement. Typical FPS TTKs range from sub-one second (think Destiny 2, CS:GO, COD) to the one-two second range (Halo Infinite). In addition, these calculations assume no shields are used - the actual full TTK is longer. I'd like to calculate by how much, but none of the shield resistance values are stated for our Odyssey suits so I'll need to figure those out first. They really should be there, to be honest...
In any case, this is a good example of why the Oppressor needs a velocity buff as a half-second penalty to its TTK at its supposed Effective Range is rather counterintuitive.
A space Nerf blaster!Opressor? What's that?
And, not only this, but the Aphelion / AR50 combo benefits hugely from faster handling on both guns and is an order of magnitude easier to use and much longer ranged.
Its true that you can only use that combo on a Dominator suit, and you would think the Oppressor should be a natural choice for the Maverick, but its still dramatically outclassed by swapping between an AR50 and a TK Zenith, in my experience. It would take a dramatic buff for me to ever upgrade it past the G3 version i bought.
I wrote above about 30 percent, I don't quite understand how you can lean on a standing soldier when you're running around too.
The stationary target and shooter assumption was to make the math easier to compute, as to include a moving target and shooter would necessitate knowing their relative velocities and the shooter's hit probability as a function of distance - assuming they only pick one direction to move. Messy, but doable for sure.
If we start factoring in evasive maneuvering (sidestep dodging / A-D spam, occasional crouch thrown in to throw off headshots, peek-shooting / jiggle-peeking around corners, etc.) TTK then starts to vary wildly, which is where my concerns about the Oppressor's low velocity and Odyssey's high TTK in general come from.
The static case gives us a good benchmark for the optimal TTK scenario that we can easily go back to and compare other weapons with, independent of a shooter's skill.
As for the 30%, I'm not quite sure I follow -
If you're referring to the damage headshots do, Plasma weapons have a 1.5x headshot multiplier. If you're asking what happens if we increase the Oppressor's base damage by 30% from 2.4 to 3.12, that would mean:
- 20 bodyshots for TTKs of 2.99s point-blank | 3.49s @ 35 meters
- 13 headshots for TTKs of 1.94s point-blank | 2.44s @ 35 meters
- The Oppressor gains a Headshot Multiplier of 2.3, so each headshot deals 7.18 MJs before resistances (50% reduction on a G5 Dominator)
- This results in 9 headshots for a point-blank TTK of 1.34s and a TTK @ 35m of 1.84s.
Personally I think the oppressor would be in a better place if it were treated more like a plasma repeater as found on SRVs and fighters, rather than a really rubbish plasma accelerator.
Then again, I think the plasma pistol should also have been a repeater more in line with the P-15, and the heavy pistol niche having been given to kinetic.
Then again, I think the plasma pistol should also have been a repeater more in line with the P-15, and the heavy pistol niche having been given to kinetic.