What is the Point of Manticore’s Oppressor?

[Deleted member 182079]

Mine is G5, that's a oneshot kill through shields against all but the toughest enemies.

Oh I see...

I've spent the past 3-4 weeks or so mission running to upgrade suits and weapons... G5 Mav, G4 the other two, most weapons G3 with some G4. I might focus on the Intimidator then because I'm seriously waning as getting all those mats/data incl. for engineer unlocks has worn me out. One shotting through shields though... I could take revenge on all those bullet sponges with that weapon though... food for thought.

 

[TrollhunterX]

I would kinda agree with that.....if Executioner, Intimidator and Tormentor weren't as good as they are. Weapon switching between thermal and kinetic is not needed unless you want to.

Kind of off topic, but I've been on an odyssey, as it were, to make the best sniper rifle I can, and it's brought me to the conclusion that there's a gaping hole in the market.

To wit, as far as I'm aware, there is no kinetic long range rifle, and that makes little sense when it would obviously have faster projectiles than the Executioner, which with greater range and a better scope, still relies on the target standing still for one, two seconds, sometimes longer. Great for hitting the side of a Vulture, mind.

Given that assassination missions would usually mean unshielded targets, so an easy kinetic kill, doesn't that make more sense than the Aphelion, which won't kill meat easily, or the Executioner, which at G5 kills what it can catch, but first it must catch you, digger, listener, runner?

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

Kind of off topic, but I've been on an odyssey, as it were, to make the best sniper rifle I can, and it's brought me to the conclusion that there's a gaping hole in the market.

To wit, as far as I'm aware, there is no kinetic long range rifle, and that makes little sense when it would obviously have faster projectiles than the Executioner, which with greater range and a better scope, still relies on the target standing still for one, two seconds, sometimes longer. Great for hitting the side of a Vulture, mind.

Given that assassination missions would usually mean unshielded targets, so an easy kinetic kill, doesn't that make more sense than the Aphelion, which won't kill meat easily, or the Executioner, which at G5 kills what it can catch, but first it must catch you, digger, listener, runner?

Simplest possible answer:That would make the kinetic rifle undisputed meta. FDEV did a very great job in Odyssey to not create one meta weapon to rule them all. All have their uses.....even the Oppressor if you don't want the kills yourself and are content with suppressive support barrage.

 

[Frop]

Oh I see...

I've spent the past 3-4 weeks or so mission running to upgrade suits and weapons... G5 Mav, G4 the other two, most weapons G3 with some G4. I might focus on the Intimidator then because I'm seriously waning as getting all those mats/data incl. for engineer unlocks has worn me out. One shotting through shields though... I could take revenge on all those bullet sponges with that weapon though... food for thought.

G5 Intimidator with Scope/High Accuracy (the still existing tunnel bore glitch) and other mods of your choice is ideal for regular settlement work and will oneshot everything. In High CZs it requires about 2 bodyshots (or one really well placed headshot) to take out a single full shields/health enemy, bar the Enforcers of course.

 

[Frankymole]

G5 Intimidator with Scope/High Accuracy (the still existing tunnel bore glitch) and other mods of your choice is ideal for regular settlement work and will oneshot everything. In High CZs it requires about 2 bodyshots (or one really well placed headshot) to take out a single full shields/health enemy, bar the Enforcers of course.

"Tunnel bore"? I thought that was a Minecraft thing.

 

[SergMx]

"Tunnel bore"? I thought that was a Minecraft thing.

What other tunnel passages? There are just a lot of small shells in one big, shotgun shell.

 

[Frankymole]

What other tunnel passages? There are just a lot of small shells in one big, shotgun shell.

I've no idea what you are talking about. When one searches for "tunnel bore" all that comes up is stuff about mining machines:

Minecraft Easy TNT Tunnel Bore - Make Tunnels Without Mining!
Ridiculously simple tunnel bore | Minecraft Java 1.16
The Ultimate Automatic Minecraft Mining Machine
Industrial Diamond Mining Machine 1.15/1.16 (Tunnel Bore)
Tunnel Bore - Feed The Beast Wiki - FTB Forum › Tunnel_Bore
28 Oct 2021 — The Tunnel Bore is a part of the Railcraft mod. When given a Bore Head, any Vanilla or RailCraft item that can function as fuel in a furnace ...

Do you mean Twelve-bore, for shotguns?

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

It means that the scope upgrade still narrows the pellet spread of the Intimidator, despite FDEV trying to fix that, giving it a greater effective lethal range. At the same time scope is tunnel vision.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

It means that the scope upgrade still narrows the pellet spread of the Intimidator, despite FDEV trying to fix that, giving it a greater effective lethal range. At the same time scope is tunnel vision.

Hmm, I wonder now whether I should spend mats and a slot on the scope if it's an acknowledged bug and might eventually be fixed... As normally putting a scope on a shotgun seems a pretty silly idea.

 

[Frop]

Hmm, I wonder now whether I should spend mats and a slot on the scope if it's an acknowledged bug and might eventually be fixed... As normally putting a scope on a shotgun seems a pretty silly idea.

Yeah, that's what I wondered too when I heard about it after release, yet here we are and it still works.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Yeah, that's what I wondered too when I heard about it after release, yet here we are and it still works.

Maybe I shouldn't apply it then, because I can guarantee you they will patch it as soon as I have.

 

[SergMx]

I've no idea what you are talking about. When one searches for "tunnel bore" all that comes up is stuff about mining machines:

Minecraft Easy TNT Tunnel Bore - Make Tunnels Without Mining!
Ridiculously simple tunnel bore | Minecraft Java 1.16
The Ultimate Automatic Minecraft Mining Machine
Industrial Diamond Mining Machine 1.15/1.16 (Tunnel Bore)
Tunnel Bore - Feed The Beast Wiki - FTB Forum › Tunnel_Bore
28 Oct 2021 — The Tunnel Bore is a part of the Railcraft mod. When given a Bore Head, any Vanilla or RailCraft item that can function as fuel in a furnace ...

Do you mean Twelve-bore, for shotguns?

It was meant that the first bullet destroys the shield, the second one finishes the enemy. If the shield was a flat wall and the shot would fly all the way through the wall as well, then one shot would not be enough.

 

[SergMx]

Questions about the characteristics of weapons from the game:
1. Damage is damage from a single round ? Its no DPS ?
2. What is the rate of fire there?
For example, I will take the Oppressr and shoot in the distance, I will see a chain of 60 balls?

I am writing this to the fact that if you know for sure you can just present it as a bug.

 

[TrollhunterX]

Simplest possible answer:That would maake the kinetic rifle undisputed meta. FDEV did a very great job in Odyssey to not create one meta weapon to rule them all. All have their uses.....even the Oppressor if you don't want the kills yourself and are content with suppressive support barrage.

Problem is, the simplest answer asks us to swallow that an ordinary sniper's rifle isn't featured because... this isn't The Expanse, where death can be brutal and instantaneous, since hyperkinetic rules.

If FDev wants us to swallow that, fine, but it's disappointing (so, I guess, not fine).

 

[SergMx]

Problem is, the simplest answer asks us to swallow that an ordinary sniper's rifle isn't featured because... this isn't The Expanse, where death can be brutal and instantaneous, since hyperkinetic rules.

If FDev wants us to swallow that, fine, but it's disappointing (so, I guess, not fine).

They already made the kinetic rifle a meta since the resistance of the shield is not known and it does not matter which place to shoot at.
But even the level 5 Dominator with resistance has the smallest resistance to kinetic.
Perhaps not properly set resistance suits.

 

[SergMx]

Improved Hip Fire Accuracy

Reduces weapon fire spread outside of ADS stance, improving accuracy. — In-Game Description Improved Hip Fire Accuracy is an Engineering modification that can be applied to Handheld Weapons. This modification can be applied by the following Engineers: Baltanos Terra Velasquez Yarden Bond...

elite-dangerous.fandom.com

Spoiler

I do not understand what 30 percent are we talking about?
Yellow strip should be divided into 3 parts and already it is added in the form of blue. What on the wiki is not true?

Spoiler

 

[Jmanis]

Problem is, the simplest answer asks us to swallow that an ordinary sniper's rifle isn't featured because... this isn't The Expanse, where death can be brutal and instantaneous, since hyperkinetic rules.

If FDev wants us to swallow that, fine, but it's disappointing (so, I guess, not fine).

I'd suggest that idea flies in the face of what ED pushes itself as, which is the experiences and stories which fall out of it. That experience is cut short by instant, unavoidable death.

 

[CMDR The Riz]

Ok, sorry for disappearing for a few days and not responding to the posts here - I was inspired by @SergMx's line of questioning to create a spreadsheet calculator that could account for a shooter's accuracy... then feature creep set in and I built a calculator that could do that, give me the ability to easily change many parameters of Odyssey's weapons and the Dominator Suit, account for damage falloff and time-of-flight for projectiles in the TTK calculations, and then a snowstorm hit which knocked out my power and delayed me a few days...

... yeah, I probably have gone overboard with this one, but I wanted to nail down with absolute certainty what is going on with the Oppressor.

And the results are very telling...

But first - here's the link to the calculator so everyone can play around with it and check to make sure my math is sound (there's bound to be an issue or two somewhere in there ). Once you have this open, go to File -> Make A Copy or File -> Download (Excel) so you can edit it locally:

Oppressor TTK Calculator.xlsx

docs.google.com

Now - Assumptions!

• All tests are assumed to be in optimal conditions - direct line of sight, neither Shooter nor Target in motion, same elevation, etc.
• TTKs are calculated by determining how many shots are required to first break the shield and then deplete the suit HP underneath using a Ceiling function. While that does give us an accurate shot count needed to pop the shields or deplete the HP, it results in some oddities with one-shot scenarios causing the refire time to be the TTK - specifically in the cases of the Executioner, Intimidator and L-6.
• Shield Resistances are assumed to mirror those of our ships - +40% Kinetic | -20% Thermal | +50% Explosive | No Absolute/Plasma. These seemingly align with what I am seeing in the game, but I have included these Resistances in a Control box in the spreadsheet so they can be adjusted should the need arise.
• Weapons have infinite magazines because the Reload Time isn't stated on the Loadout screen.
• The Effective Range is assumed to be the starting point for Damage Falloff.
  • Damage Falloff is assumed to be linear and begins at a weapon's Effective Range
  • Damage = 0 out at 200 m based on some unscientific tests from back in the Alpha.
• Projectile velocity is modeled as a time delay; once the first projectile arrives, subsequent projectiles arrive based on the weapon's Rate of Fire.
• Accuracy is implemented by increasing the number of shots required to pop shields or deplete Suit HP as the accuracy percentage decreases from 100%.
• The Intimidator has that bug active that combines all of the pellets into a single bolt. It's very easy to set up in practice so this one is hardly an assumption for me.
• I've included a few weapon combos that account for weapon swap times; they are a simple time delay on top of the calculated TTK.

There may be more I am forgetting, but those are the big ones. Anyway, time for graphs!

Spoiler: TTKs at Point-Blank Range (0 m)

Spoiler: TTKs @ 35 m

As it turns out, the Oppressor technically does not have the longest TTK - that honor belongs to the Laser family thanks to the Dominator's ridiculous 80% Thermal Resistance on its Suit HP.

However, thanks to its low damage and projectile velocity, the Oppressor lands right in the middle of the Laser weapons at its Effective Range of 35 meters for its Bodyshot TTK; despite that, it beats them in the Headshot TTKs - but only because the Laser weapons have a base Headshot Multiplier of 1x. If we factor in the Headshot Damage mod for the Laser weapons for a Multiplier of 1.5x, the Oppressor will lose out to even the Eclipse at 35m (Oppressor @ 5.78s | Eclipse @ 5.50s w/ Headshot Damage).

And something that REALLY fascinating to me, thanks to the power of my calculator... Let's assume for moment on top of the other assumptions that:

1. The Oppressor Shooter has an Aimbot and has a 100% accuracy rating
2. Every other shooter can hit 60% of their shots
3. The Shooters and Targets are at point-blank range (zero meters apart from one another)

With that all in mind...

Spoiler: TTKs Subject to the Constraints Above

Have a very close look at both the Oppressor and AR-50 bars: they are nearly identical. You can be 100% accurate with the Oppressor and match TTKS with an AR-50 that misses 2 in 5 shots - at point-blank range, no less!

That problem is only exacerbated with range thanks to that lovely 70 m/s projectile velocity and low damage. I don't think a better case for an Oppressor buff could be made. Or a buff to Laser weapons for that matter - an 80% damage reduction on Suit HP is brutal

...So, then, what should happen to the Oppressor?

1. A 50% Damage buff
2. And a 100% buff to velocity

I realize that may sound ridiculous, but let's look at two more graphs of the Bodyshot TTK with both of these buffs implemented and everyone hitting 100% of their shots:

Spoiler: TTKs with Oppressor Buffs Active

The Headshot TTKs follow a similar trend, but I think I'm at my image upload limit for this post so I can't upload them

TLDR:

With those two buffs (1.5x Damage, 2x Velocity), the Oppressor is much more competitive with its peers while not being the best (it only beats out the Executioner because of that sweet Manticore velocity ).

This exercise has been rather eye opening for me and I hope that paints a picture of just how underpowered the Oppressor is.

...So, uh, FDEV... Oppressor buff plz?

---

I know that quite a few posts have happened since I started this one. I'll try to reply to a few of the posts I missed in a bit - I started this post when the thread was back on Page 4!

 

[CMDR The Riz]

Thank you very much for your answer, I don't know if I understood everything correctly because of the translation.
1. damage tests are very good. But when moving may be missed, that is, the damage is 0.

Indeed - the latest calculator accounts for missed shots via an Accuracy %.

2. Why is it done differently in the Odyssey. The suit has plasma resistance and the suit is not destroyed, and with the help of health kits you repaired health...

I don't know why they added in a Plasma Resistance and I disagree with it - it's a major break from the base game (same thing with the Greater Range mod not increasing projectile velocities).

3. what is the suit's shield? Is it important that you shoot in the head with the shield ? What is the damage resistance of the shield ?

A G5 Dominator has a 33.8 MJ Shield Generator; I've assumed the resistances of the shield to mirror those of our base ship shields as they aren't stated in-game and unfortunately I was short a few test subjects lately.

4. 30% increase in non-targeted shot on plasma (all Manticore). Non-aimed i.e. on the run at a glance ...

Looking ahead in the Thread, it appears as though you are referring to the Higher Accuracy mod which tightens the hipfire spread cone by 30%. This only works well in close-quarters fights with weapons that can frontload a lot of damage quickly so you can remain mobile, such as with the Intimidator or possibly the Executioner (it is a glorified slug shotgun IMO...).

But FD have done a good job to get the enemy to react to being shot. Often in a CZ I'll see a group of 4 or 5 enemies crossing to take a control point. I'll sprint over and spray Oppressor fire onto that group and they disperse and take firing positions. So... instead of five enemies now holding a position (which is gonna be pretty untakable at that point), you've got one. And it's much easier to then take down that single enemy while you hold back the enemy.

If the enemy just ignored that fire (like they do in most games), then the Oppressor would be very useless. Yes, you can do the same effect with any other weapon, but the limited ammo means you can't maintain that long. The Oppressor can stay in the fight for much longer, and that's really important if you're controlling the battlefield, which is the role of the Oppressor to me.

Instead, drop 2-3 rockets from a G5 L-6 and laugh manically whilst creating a cloud of ragdolls that spaghettify themselves upon all nearby geometry and mop up whoever is left standing

I must be missing something.
After all, just shooting from the hip (not pressing the RKMouse) is to cover the battlefield more and run and see everything.



That's exactly what this mod is for, to shoot more accurately without having to aim with the right mouse button. For MANTICORE, that's 30 % !

P.S.
By the way it is not quite clear how this mod works, does it just increase the whole picture by 30% ? Not really clear.

As mentioned above, the Higher Accuracy mod tightens the hipfire spread cone by 30% (and by that I believe it decreases the angle of the spread cone by 30%). It doesn't change your Field of View.

Since I have a G3 Oppressor that I actually upgraded from G2 (came with Audio Masking, at the time I didn't have access to the relevant engineer so didn't want to chuck it) and since applied the Stability (not Hip Fire Accuracy) mod. The latter makes a big difference as the gun doesn't 'wander' as much and it feels much more stable (as you'd expect).

Do you happen to have a video of how the Oppressor sounds suppressed? I've been looking everywhere for one and haven't found it yet.

I don't like the Intimidator that much due to the small clip size (fair for a shottie though).

"Please hold, I need to reload and will get back to you shortly"

Have a G3 version and might put a scope on it, as silly as that notion is apparently it impacts spread.

Still have no idea why the Scope acts as a choke, but slap one on along with Greater Range, Higher Accuracy and Magazine Size and G5 it and your Intimidator will make you feel like Doomguy.

...Then, to activate Doom Slayer mode, hop in and out of your ship a few times to condense all of those pellets into a single bolt for maximum hilarity!

"Tunnel bore"? I thought that was a Minecraft thing.

It is. I have one and it's been netting me quite a few stacks of Redstone, Lapis Lazuli and Diamonds lately

Questions about the characteristics of weapons from the game:
1. Damage is damage from a single round ? Its no DPS ?

DPS can be calculated from the weapon's Damage and Rate of Fire. I broke down the damage calculations on a per-shot basis because of the damage gate between Shields and Suit HP - if a shot breaks the shield, any extra damage the shot has beyond the remaining Shield HP is discarded rather than applied to the Suit. In the case of the Intimidator, that won't stop any additional bolts from affecting the Suit's HP (which... I definitely didn't account for in the calculator. Whoops.).

2. What is the rate of fire there?

The Oppressor's Rate of Fire is 6.7 shots/second or 402 RPM.

For example, I will take the Oppressr and shoot in the distance, I will see a chain of 60 balls?

So long as the plasma bolt doesn't impact something or travel 200m where it will despawn, yes - you will see a train of plasma balls.

Problem is, the simplest answer asks us to swallow that an ordinary sniper's rifle isn't featured because... this isn't The Expanse, where death can be brutal and instantaneous, since hyperkinetic rules.

If FDev wants us to swallow that, fine, but it's disappointing (so, I guess, not fine).

Relative to other FPS titles such as Halo Infinite or COD, death in Odyssey is treated harshly through mission failure and respawn locations far away from combat (or even the last place you docked in the case of waking up on a prison ship). I'd imagine that's a big part of why insta-kill weapons weren't included with Odyssey and why the damage gate exists between Shields and Suit HP - to give the player some time to react to incoming fire.

FWIW, I also would like to see at least a true DMR in Odyssey and not the scoped slug shotgun that claims to be one (Executioner). Maybe a Beam Laser LMG too, while we're at it

 

[SergMx]

Indeed - the latest calculator accounts for missed shots via an Accuracy %.


I don't know why they added in a Plasma Resistance and I disagree with it - it's a major break from the base game (same thing with the Greater Range mod not increasing projectile velocities).


A G5 Dominator has a 33.8 MJ Shield Generator; I've assumed the resistances of the shield to mirror those of our base ship shields as they aren't stated in-game and unfortunately I was short a few test subjects lately.


Looking ahead in the Thread, it appears as though you are referring to the Higher Accuracy mod which tightens the hipfire spread cone by 30%. This only works well in close-quarters fights with weapons that can frontload a lot of damage quickly so you can remain mobile, such as with the Intimidator or possibly the Executioner (it is a glorified slug shotgun IMO...).


Instead, drop 2-3 rockets from a G5 L-6 and laugh manically whilst creating a cloud of ragdolls that spaghettify themselves upon all nearby geometry and mop up whoever is left standing


As mentioned above, the Higher Accuracy mod tightens the hipfire spread cone by 30% (and by that I believe it decreases the angle of the spread cone by 30%). It doesn't change your Field of View.


Do you happen to have a video of how the Oppressor sounds suppressed? I've been looking everywhere for one and haven't found it yet.


Still have no idea why the Scope acts as a choke, but slap one on along with Greater Range, Higher Accuracy and Magazine Size and G5 it and your Intimidator will make you feel like Doomguy.

...Then, to activate Doom Slayer mode, hop in and out of your ship a few times to condense all of those pellets into a single bolt for maximum hilarity!


It is. I have one and it's been netting me quite a few stacks of Redstone, Lapis Lazuli and Diamonds lately


DPS can be calculated from the weapon's Damage and Rate of Fire. I broke down the damage calculations on a per-shot basis because of the damage gate between Shields and Suit HP - if a shot breaks the shield, any extra damage the shot has beyond the remaining Shield HP is discarded rather than applied to the Suit. In the case of the Intimidator, that won't stop any additional bolts from affecting the Suit's HP (which... I definitely didn't account for in the calculator. Whoops.).


The Oppressor's Rate of Fire is 6.7 shots/second or 402 RPM.


So long as the plasma bolt doesn't impact something or travel 200m where it will despawn, yes - you will see a train of plasma balls.


Relative to other FPS titles such as Halo Infinite or COD, death in Odyssey is treated harshly through mission failure and respawn locations far away from combat (or even the last place you docked in the case of waking up on a prison ship). I'd imagine that's a big part of why insta-kill weapons weren't included with Odyssey and why the damage gate exists between Shields and Suit HP - to give the player some time to react to incoming fire.

FWIW, I also would like to see at least a true DMR in Odyssey and not the scoped slug shotgun that claims to be one (Executioner). Maybe a Beam Laser LMG too, while we're at it

Good job. But I think there's a lot here that's not quite right.
For example, the calculation of the shield drop time. What do you mean, a plasma sniper won't take the shield off in one hit?