What went wrong with Elite Dangerous

[Kewpa Eurus]

Don't get me wrong. I totally don't think any lesser of you because of your views. I just feel like the game would benefit EVERY player as a whole if people would play in Open. I also feel that Solo has it's place for certain players. I just feel that Private does nothing but ruin the game. There are certainly more "Good Guys" and "Bad Guys" in this game and if the "Good Guys" banded together in Open instead of running to a private group it would create a more lively Universe and hot systems. I feel the "Good Guys" could have a major impact in Open if they had just tried.

FD has advertised piracy as well as being able to hunt other CMDRS. http://i.imgur.com/sCSdEMg.jpg. I do feel though that there needs to be improvements to the system to make it work for everyone, the main improvement would be a real crime and punishment system. When I first started pirating I thought I would have to make some Anarchy system away from the major factions to be able to safely re-arm, re-outfit, and dock for the night. When I realized that I could do whatever I wanted in any system and still be able to have full access to a systems logistics I was actually disappointed. This is one of the many improvements I would like seen made before any new content that needs to come out, which is what I think the original post was about, instead of being an Eve comparison.

 

[Cosmos]

Again such arrogance. Why can you not accept that just because the game is not what YOU want it to be does not be the game is objectively not that great ?.

For me being able to control who I play with is the single best thing about the whole MP thing and personally I think , as do many , that the 1 BGS to rule them all is brilliant.

It is all perfectly fair if you just accept what the BGS MP is all about. Of course it's fine not to like it but it grinds my gears when people just state how their opinion is more qualified than everyone elses.

Not every game has to primarily focus on one demographic ED focuses on another for a change.

You have been threatening to walk away for what? 12 ? Months now maybe even longer saying how the modes YOU supported by backing so early are making a poor game... And yet here you still are.

I'm not being arrogant at all and I've only recently talked about walking away from it. Nor am I threatening anyone. Its true though that I would like to see ED be an amazing success because I loved the original game back in the day. I wouldn't mind playing a 100% PvE game either but what FD have delieverd gets old very quick and in the absence of them being able to deliver a rich and compelling experience I always thought that we the players could fill that gap with emergent gameplay. Neither is the case so ultimately its the game that suffers and if you read between the lines I believe Horizons had a dismal take up and many a steam review accurately describes the games flaws, bar the silly moaning about pricing which I thought was fine.

However, I have come to realise that despite passionately arguing for the betterment of the game its starting to look like a lost cause. I never imagined the next gen Elite game was going to turn out to be so stunted, so predictable and such a treadmil of an experience; its a scripted borefest bereft of any dynamism or emergent gameplay.

If you are happy then good for you but there are many more who are not and they are voting with their wallets. Not good for the games future and success.

 

[Lobstris]

Until then I see no constructive reason why new content should queue jump over FD approved content

It boils down to needing the money to keep rolling in though doesn't it? There was a comment by Sandro (IIRC) a couple of months after launch that retaining players was as big a challenge as developing the game in the first place, hence why we seemed to get a lot of stuff we never asked for (or though was coming) in the first season (i.e. Arena/CQC and Powerplay), with the trend continuing in the second (crafting?!?), to try and keep the multiplayer crowd interested, which subsequently leads to furthering the calls for 'Eve, with ship control'. So there's another reason why I'm still playing Elite now... I fear it won't be the Elite I remember from my past, in the future.

 

[AceFlares]

Same old.. I felt dirty clicking on the Reddit link however on doing so, there was nothing new on there. Nothing that hasn't been typed into these forums, Steam etc. If the Elite player base is to grow, then more content needs to be added and the current content presentation spruced up. I don't think anyone can deny this. It's up to FD to decide what direction that content should go in and what's feasable with the available tech... I'm waiting eagerly, hoping they get it right.

As for the EvE comparisons; I don't want to play a grind/scam/exploit/gank/ your way to riches MMO. If so I'd still be playing EvE. The problem with the vocal EvE players complaining Elite isn't EvE with cockpits is, you don't get to hear from the hundreds of thousands who have tried EvE and didn't like it or tired of it and left. EvE is very niché, and unfortunately that niché consists of too many sociopathic online bullies living in their mum's basement who want to own everyone (with their 10000 "friends" of course just behind). <snipped a huge TL;DR rant!>

 

[Cosmos]

It boils down to needing the money to keep rolling in though doesn't it? There was a comment by Sandro (IIRC) a couple of months after launch that retaining players was as big a challenge as developing the game in the first place, hence why we seemed to get a lot of stuff we never asked for (or though was coming) in the first season (i.e. Arena/CQC and Powerplay), with the trend continuing in the second (crafting?!?), to try and keep the multiplayer crowd interested, which subsequently leads to furthering the calls for 'Eve, with ship control'. So there's another reason why I'm still playing Elite now... I fear it won't be the Elite I remember from my past, in the future.

I think Engineers is going to turn out to be an incredibly important update which is why I was happy to tell them to give it the time they needed. If it doesn't deliever I think the future of the game could be jepodised. I'll say this to my dying breath but we need rid of solo/pg and to have a more EvE like emergent sandbox game. FD have demonstrated they can't deliever enough compelling and rich gameplay to sustain the game. We the players COULD create much richer gameplay experiences if the game took another direction.

Its somewhat ironic that today there was a community spotlight on the Mobius group. FD are in total denial about their game imo. I can see things going south rapidly if things don't change.

 

[Kristov]

Don't get me wrong. I totally don't think any lesser of you because of your views. I just feel like the game would benefit EVERY player as a whole if people would play in Open. I also feel that Solo has it's place for certain players. I just feel that Private does nothing but ruin the game. There are certainly more "Good Guys" and "Bad Guys" in this game and if the "Good Guys" banded together in Open instead of running to a private group it would create a more lively Universe and hot systems. I feel the "Good Guys" could have a major impact in Open if they had just tried.

FD has advertised piracy as well as being able to hunt other CMDRS. http://i.imgur.com/sCSdEMg.jpg. I do feel though that there needs to be improvements to the system to make it work for everyone, the main improvement would be a real crime and punishment system. When I first started pirating I thought I would have to make some Anarchy system away from the major factions to be able to safely re-arm, re-outfit, and dock for the night. When I realized that I could do whatever I wanted in any system and still be able to have full access to a systems logistics I was actually disappointed. This is one of the many improvements I would like seen made before any new content that needs to come out, which is what I think the original post was about, instead of being an Eve comparison.

Except for when I'm out in the Black, I play in Open, solo for exploration for the hi res screenshots, if I could do them in Open, I'd never leave it. And what does that have to do with anything?

From day 1, Solo, Group and Open were part of the game design, all in a constantly online game, but you could decide your level of direct interaction with other humans. That's actually a huge thing as it happens, Star Citizen is offering something similar without the networking option that E: D uses, a PvP slider, that limits your ability to see and be seen by other humans in the secure areas of the game world. Go into the lawless spaces, that slider doesn't operate, but everywhere else, you can play Solo for all intents and purposes. BIG selling point for Star Citizen as it happens, just like it is for E: D.

The only folks who don't like that, griefers. PvPers, like myself, don't give a rat's furry rear end if people want to play in Solo or Group, they aren't going to be fun for PvP anyway, so good riddance! I want PvP, takes me a few minutes to contact any of the thousands of PvPers and arrange a dance, 1v1 or wings, it's literally that easy to find good PvP in E: D. Griefers on the other hand, well, they want VICTIMS, they don't want a dance, they want a curbstomp. So people not being in Open bothers them, means it's hard to find someone to curbstomp, since the people in Open are all aware of the fact that PvP can happen at any time, so we tend to be prepared for, and many of us enjoy it, so we don't go easily into the dark....griefers don't like targets who fire back!

Me, I'm the XO of a pirate unit for 20 years of online gaming, we're getting geared up for SC as it happens, because it's far more socially oriented than E: D is, and we can actually disable our targets instead of blowing them up. We don't like clubbing seals, that's not fun to us, and we fully expect we'll be having turf wars with other outlaw groups, and that is where our PvP will come from, real fights with real players who want PvP, not clubbing seals. I tried piracy in E: D, every single human I interdicted logged on me, they were all expecting to be killed, because that is what usually happens. Lotta seal clubbers in this game, all of whom try to say they are PvPers, which is pure and utter . PvPers don't kill someone in a T6 just because they were there. Pirates don't kill someone in a T6 who doesn't instantly comply, they disable the ship, which E: D allows us to do with ease. I disabled hundreds of NPC ships without any problem BEFORE taking a power plant to 0% just disabled the ship and instead caused instant destruction, so...

Nope, sorry, the only people whining about people hiding in Solo and Group are griefers, that's it. Real PvPers know there's lot of people who enjoy PvP and can get a dance going anytime, so the folks who play Solo and Group don't matter.

You really aren't making a good case for the OP, the topic he's trying to present, nor the reddit thread...you realize that?

 

[Kewpa Eurus]

You CAN hunt other commanders if you so desire, there are lots and lots of people in Open, and any CG is a great hunting spot in Open. The game ALLOWS PvP, but it's not designed around it nor does it cater to it, and the size of the game world, hundreds of thousands of light years of space with 400 billion systems, makes finding other players at random something of a challenge. 20,000 players logged in at the same time, IF everyone was in Open, that's 1 per inhabited system...seriously, picking up E: D with the hopes of doing PvP is...well...it's rather like tossing a rock into the ocean in the hopes of hitting a fish for your dinner. Sure, it's possible, but it's rather extremely unlikely.

And you brought 50% of the medical supplies a station needed? In that case, I'm sure you were rewarded for that effort, they do list the top contributors after all, and they get paid well usually. Made out to be a hero? Probably not, I don't recall to many heroes from the relief efforts in Nepal, Mexico City, Haiti..shall I continue? And that's here on a single little planet, and you expect to be feted for your actions in E: D which is on a scale so much larger that it boggles the mind?

Again, exploration data, it's pretty useless since there's still so many thousands of systems in and around the immediate area where Humanity resides. Expansion isn't such a simple thing either, there needs to be a reason for it, and a FoB for explorers isn't actually a good reason. We did have one of those happen recently, Obsidian Orbital in the Maia system. People complain about going to it, it's so far out...couple hundred light years....and you think a FoB farther out in the Black needs to happen?

As for our efforts having an impact on the game, they do, everything we do has an impact. You, and most people for that matter, not seeing those impacts, not surprising, it's a BIG place after all. You kill NPCs or players, there is a direct and easy to see change in the influence of the minor factions in the system you are doing that in, many of us play that, we push the BGS around, get our pet factions to grow and spread, force factions we don't like to decrease in size and power. It's visible, it's obvious, and it's easy, we've even been given the general rules for how it all works. So, what exactly are you looking for? YOU having direct power over things? Not going to happen, ever, wrong game. You want to corner a market? Literally impossible, too many sources of goods all no more than 2 hours away from the farthest point, 20,000 inhabited systems in the bubble, thousands of sources for any and all materials and goods, except Rares which are artificially controlled, so you can't corner anything without having hundreds of thousands of players all working in concert for a while...you COULD do that you know, but no one has tried, so...you aren't going to corner jack. Interstellar economy and market place, NOT local or global..you think too small, like so many do. FD got that right, some of us see that and applaud it, others complain that it's broken because they don't get the scale...too bad, that scale is one of the best features of the game.

You do want to be special, your complaints show that clearly, as does your dismissal of the careful game design that FD has been using, simply because you want another game all together and refuse to admit it, therefore this game is badly designed and using outdated methods. You picked up the wrong game.

Sorry, I just feel like that your views are too opinionated due to the fact that you know that I'm a PvPer. At the end of the day you don't get emergent content from the game itself, you get emergent content from the actions of other players and the way they react to the changing Universe. PvP is just one aspect to the game and never did I ask for the game to focus soley on that. This argument you are trying to present never existed. PvP is one cog in the machine. Without PvP, the machine is less than what it is, whether you personally like it or not. Should I use your argument of like it or leave it in this case? I wouldn't, FD needs as much funding as possible over the next 10 years.

Medical funding is just one small example I'm using. Mexico city, Nepal, Haiti? Sure I don't hear about those people who helped in those areas but I'm sure that the people who put major efforts had contact with the local area and probably are hailed as heroes, LOCALLY. If someone saved the WHOLE Earth, I'm pretty sure I'd hear about them. You are right we are rewarded with credits (Which really becomes obsolete after obtaining enough for constant re-buys) and you get listed briefly on the charts. Never did I say you should be recognized through out the WHOLE universe, but getting local benefits from the station or faction would be nice. I could care less about bringing supplies to a CG right now. The monetary gains for the CG's and my care for the faction is null, because the game design allows me to not care.

Exploration, sure it happened. Just because people are complaining doesn't mean it's not right. Pretty sure people would enjoy an FOB closer to the core. But hey if it doesn't help your argument, then I guess it's not needed.

To say your efforts have an impact on the game is laughable. I do pay attention to the BGS, not just mindlessly hunting CMDRS all day as you would think. I've participated in operations that effected the actions of many CMDRS, but not the BGS itself. Again you are using the agument that me myself want to have an effect as a solo player. Again, I'll say this. I WANT THE SUM OF ACTIONS OF ALL CMDRS TO HAVE AN EFFECT. Clear enough? Ask anyone group who heavily tries to manipulate the BGS how it is going for them...It's broken. I remember being able to tank a groups BGS who were Fifth Columning our PP faction and tanking their rep in a few hours, effectively destroying months of work. Even if you do manage to manipulate the BGS, so what? What effect does that have? At the end of the day an Anarchy system with a certain faction controlling it still will be the same as a regular system with another faction controlling it. In your head you feel that there is an effect, in reality there is not.

Again, don't want to be special. You are blind to see that the model of having the "highest amount of something" is an outdated model. There's a facade of having a sandbox game, while the only goal and progression is having the most amount of credits for that next ship. I didn't pick the wrong game, you are just satisfied with eating Mcdonalds when you can be eating steak.

 

[Raylion]

I have two problems with Elite. The first is that I don't feel any adventure within the game...there are quests but they do feel limited and when I travel its very rare something gets my attention (beyond an interdiction) that makes me think 'ooo, what's happening there'.

To take an example from another game...Guild Wars 2...not the greatest game ever but not a bad one either...one thing I liked about it was that I could be randomly wandering around and suddenly something captures my interest which leads to some little story, which blends into another little story, that blends into another story and then before I know it I'm battling some big bad boss with 20 people. Not forced and is very organic...this to me is adventure and keeps my attention which Elite lacks. I'm not saying Elite needs this specifically but only defining what I mean by adventure.

The 2nd thing is the lack of any RPG beyond earn credits to buy ships or do whatever grind is needed to rank up. Something that would interest me would be NPC wings, hire/fire pilots, build relationships with them, improve their equipment, go on NPC related generated quests with them and maybe even have a tiny little home base on some rock/moon that we all call home and add stuff to. The current credit/rank grind isn't appealing for me and doesn't provide strong enough long term goals for me to build and keep my focus (rank or credits aren't enough).

Apart from that I think the rest of the game is very good and hope future DLC will add components to add more adventure or compelling RPG.

 

[Talarin]

Sure. Because those who disagree with you do so on impulse, blindly, without any support to their position. That way you can dismiss their side of the discussion without any effort.

Score!

That's not remotely what I said - and it's quite a stretch to twist what I wrote to suggest that I meant that.

If the argument against a perceived lack of content in the game is that people have set their expectations too high I think it entirely reasonable to challenge what those expectations should have been.

ED is undoubtedly technically excellent. Horizons in particular is an incredible feat worthy of many plaudits. But technically excellent doesn't always mean that it's a great game. It could and should be better (in my opinion, of course).

 

[Nodor]

I don't feel like teaching new players if It's not worth my time and the effort I put in. Read what I just said in my previous post. It's about rewarding players. When I know they will probably quit within the next first week after seeing the barebone emptyness of this game.

The only fun thing to do in this game right now while waiting for 2.1.... is to do PVP, it's the only emergent creative content in this game.

Everything else is going to spend most of your time travelling and waiting around, so bring a video game to keep yourself entertained not to take screenshots to post them on imgur and not a galaxy completely devoid of life or anything interesting to see, not a hint of anything mysterious or even remnants of other intelligent civilizations, no megastructures, derelict ships, dyson spheres, ringworlds or other commonly hypothesized signs of alien civilizations, no dynamic events in solar systems, no comet swarms, pirate derelict systems, no wormholes, no NOTHING just empty space with 400 billion stars.

Add more PVE content and maybe I will stop destroying everything in my path.

And quotes like these are why I will never fly a trade ship in open. If your fun is ruining mine or someone else's day, then it comes at a direct cost to to others. For all the "get good" fly different ship or whatnot used to hide justifications, at the end of the day, if your fun is attacking unarmored and unshielded trade vessels you are a bully deriving pleasure from hurting others.

The top selling point for me is is the current setup for ED that has the solo and private group play in addition to open. It enables consensual pvp while keeping the options open for those of us who just want to quietly compete for a good spot on a community goal.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

However, I have come to realise that despite passionately arguing for the betterment of the game its starting to look like a lost cause. I never imagined the next gen Elite game was going to turn out to be so stunted, so predictable and such a treadmil of an experience; its a scripted borefest bereft of any dynamism or emergent gameplay.

If you are happy then good for you but there are many more who are not and they are voting with their wallets. Not good for the games future and success.

Fair enough and if I came on too strong I apologize.. But for me the modes are critical. Remove solo for instance or make me start a new cmdr (not gonna happen) I can't play when my internet is not great. Ed on weak internet is a critical component for me. As for open .. Well absolute truth, I could probably live if I was locked out of open but private must stay. Open to me is the least interesting mode....

But do not mistake this for me saying ED is perfect ... It isn't, far from it but there is heaps of content not in the game yet which I would rather FD deliver rather than guilds.... I hate everything the MP that is eve and the day I am told I am not welcome in a system is the day I leave

 

[Raylion]

Funny, my main gripe with Guild Wars 2 was that i never felt i was living in a world. All i got was the feeling of a giant themepark with rides on every corner, which i can take for spin, or not. It does not matter, it starts again in a few mins / hours. Overall, one of the least immersive MMORPGS i played.

I can see your point there...for me is was quite refreshing at the time to do things that differed from the more usual go to a quest giver, get quest, do quest and return. I quite like what I call my 'Kung-Fu adventures' (bit of reference to the 80's TV show Kung-Fu with David Carradine) which is essentially wander around and see what the world does to me. Would like some of that in Elite.

 

[Kristov]

Sorry, I just feel like that your views are too opinionated due to the fact that you know that I'm a PvPer. At the end of the day you don't get emergent content from the game itself, you get emergent content from the actions of other players and the way they react to the changing Universe. PvP is just one aspect to the game and never did I ask for the game to focus soley on that. This argument you are trying to present never existed. PvP is one cog in the machine. Without PvP, the machine is less than what it is, whether you personally like it or not. Should I use your argument of like it or leave it in this case? I wouldn't, FD needs as much funding as possible over the next 10 years.

Medical funding is just one small example I'm using. Mexico city, Nepal, Haiti? Sure I don't hear about those people who helped in those areas but I'm sure that the people who put major efforts had contact with the local area and probably are hailed as heroes, LOCALLY. If someone saved the WHOLE Earth, I'm pretty sure I'd hear about them. You are right we are rewarded with credits (Which really becomes obsolete after obtaining enough for constant re-buys) and you get listed briefly on the charts. Never did I say you should be recognized through out the WHOLE universe, but getting local benefits from the station or faction would be nice. I could care less about bringing supplies to a CG right now. The monetary gains for the CG's and my care for the faction is null, because the game design allows me to not care.

Exploration, sure it happened. Just because people are complaining doesn't mean it's not right. Pretty sure people would enjoy an FOB closer to the core. But hey if it doesn't help your argument, then I guess it's not needed.

To say your efforts have an impact on the game is laughable. I do pay attention to the BGS, not just mindlessly hunting CMDRS all day as you would think. I've participated in operations that effected the actions of many CMDRS, but not the BGS itself. Again you are using the agument that me myself want to have an effect as a solo player. Again, I'll say this. I WANT THE SUM OF ACTIONS OF ALL CMDRS TO HAVE AN EFFECT. Clear enough? Ask anyone group who heavily tries to manipulate the BGS how it is going for them...It's broken. I remember being able to tank a groups BGS who were Fifth Columning our PP faction and tanking their rep in a few hours, effectively destroying months of work. Even if you do manage to manipulate the BGS, so what? What effect does that have? At the end of the day an Anarchy system with a certain faction controlling it still will be the same as a regular system with another faction controlling it. In your head you feel that there is an effect, in reality there is not.

Again, don't want to be special. You are blind to see that the model of having the "highest amount of something" is an outdated model. There's a facade of having a sandbox game, while the only goal and progression is having the most amount of credits for that next ship. I didn't pick the wrong game, you are just satisfied with eating Mcdonalds when you can be eating steak.

I'm a PvPer, so....what? I actually don't consider you a PvPer by the way, not after your little bit about people needing to be in Open...what I think of you, well, it's not kindly, I'll leave it at that.

That said, your view of what the game needs isn't impacted by my thoughts of you, as your view on that was already off in my opinion before your statements about Open.

You clearly don't get how the BGS works, mixing it up with PP...yeah, you don't get it, not surprising, many don't, and they often fail to consider 1 very major factor...random humans flying through a system doing their own thing. Hard for a group of 10 or 20 or even 50 to counter 100 random ships flying through every day undoing what they did. Must be a broken BGS! Nope, people not seeing the obvious, that's all. You tried to stop 5thC action via the BGS...yeah, you've got that stuff down cold...like Newton did concerning alchemy I'd say....

There IS no objective in a sandbox game except to play, what your personal goals are, that's up to you, be it the biggest ship, all the ships, seeing all the stars, all the inhabited systems, whatever, doesn't matter, it's a sandbox game, there are NO objectives and goals provided by the game. And you don't see that, you think there needs to be some objective, some goal, some final destination...there's no end game in a sandbox, there's no end.....you did pick up the wrong game.

 

[Privata]

Nothing , everything is going as planned.
Games dont grow on trees

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

That's not remotely what I said - and it's quite a stretch to twist what I wrote to suggest that I meant that.

"That so many extremely vocal members of the forum community seem to want to blindly defend the state of the game [...] is very frustrating."

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

Nothing , everything is going as planned.
Games dont grow on trees

Erm... http://planning.cs.uiuc.edu/node519.html

 

[Kewpa Eurus]

You do realize that a lot of seal clubbing is due to the fact that pirates have a VERY small time period in which to send a message and retrieve cargo before either A) Combat Logging or B) High Waking. The game mechanics that FD refuses to acknowledge or fix is the cause of seal clubbing.

If you want to talk about your gaming experience, then I gurantee I can trump your pirating and PvP experience within E with my own. When we pirated we taught everyone how use macros to send a request to throttle to 0 within a second of entering low space. In my groups' experience most of the CMDRs who ended up dead was due to the fact that they had no reading comprehension or were just buying time for a combat log or high wake. We let the CMDR decide whether they die or relinquish cargo and feel no remorse to those who have died. In fact we were more than patient. As for PvP, don't talk to me about real PvP. I've danced with opponents with equal and more skill then myself as well as commanded large scale battles with 25+ CMDRs present.

At the end of the day you have little experience within E on these subjects compared to me. I'm not trying to argue here to shape the game how I want it, but rather trying to use my veteran experiences to help the games overall health.

People like you who tell people to like it or leave it do not help the 10 year plan of FD at all. I'm done, it's impossible to have a conversation with someone who thinks they are superior in the subject in every way even though they have yet to scratch the surface. There is a reason why you are satisfied, it's because you havn't scratched deep enough yet.

 

[Kristov]

Erm... http://planning.cs.uiuc.edu/node519.html

You...you are a funny man, got me choking up trying not to laugh out loud here at work!

 

[Lobstris]

I think Engineers is going to turn out to be an incredibly important update which is why I was happy to tell them to give it the time they needed. If it doesn't deliever I think the future of the game could be jepodised.

Indeed, I'm in complete agreement with you there.

I'll say this to my dying breath but we need rid of solo/pg and to have a more EvE like emergent sandbox game.

Aaaaaaaannnnnnnddddd.... you just lost me with that. but...

FD have demonstrated they can't deliever enough compelling and rich gameplay to sustain the game. We the players COULD create much richer gameplay experiences if the game took another direction.

And here I'm back with you partially. The game could be richer if it went more wholesale down the Eve route, and went down the 'proper' sandbox route. And I agree that having Solo players affecting the open universe is just... fundamentally wrong. Characters should have been locked at creation to a single mode, avoiding all of the issues with mission stacking, non-consensual pvp etc.

However, It could also be a lot richer if it went down more 'single player/limited coop' content route, with greater persistence of user experience, deeper NPCs, not hampered by the generic 'one size fits all, as long as it can be shared between clients' route. FFE was a better game than Frontier because of hand crafted missions and an interesting storyline.

And there's another problem with E: D, in attempting to please all people, it's 'jack of all trades, and master of'... precisely how many?

But hindsight is a wonderful thing, opinions are like nether regions - we all have smelly ones etc. etc...

 

[Kewpa Eurus]

When did I mix up BGS with PP? When did I mention PP at all? I just mentioned PP when I talked about dumping a groups actual BGS when they 5th columned our PP faction. You constantly skew my words to fit your arguments. You are not doing yourself any favors. I've been in more 1v1, 1v2, 10v10 15v15 and have pirated millions worth of cargo. You are a pup in compared to what I've done in the PvP sector.