What went wrong with Elite Dangerous

[Kewpa Eurus]

This too, is important, you see threads complaining about lack of people in open, because people want victims, not once do they think that maybe they themselves could be (depending naturally on who it is) part of the reason they don't find many victims in open, the good old, interdict and blow people up, isn't exactly something that motivates people to go join open, if they are at the whim of some random person that is in the mood to just blow people up to see pixels belonging to other players explode.

This is the problem. The fact that players need an incentive to join Open is just as greedy as you think of the people who want "victims" Right now Open is dominated by the "Bad Guys" because they are allowed to by the community. It seems that a majority of the Solo/Private players who post here think of one thing and one thing only. "I do not want to be blown up" They act like they won't have an impact in Open or are powerless to do anything about it. With this mindset, the community around here has already lost to the "Bad Guys" It's a defeated mentality that is encouraged around here.

Why can't joining Open and conducting operations at CG's or holding valuable trade routes be enough incentive for someone to play in Open? Imagine how hard it would be for a certain group of "Griefers" to operate if a certain group of 20k+ players started operating in Open? If those 20k+ players banded together in Open it would be quite a force to be reckoned with. That force could own and operate in territories due to sheer numbers alone. Again, THOUSANDS of players are allowing themselves to be defeated by literally a handful of players.

When a group of 15 or players are able to "drive players to Solo" and with a community that outnumbers a "Griefing" community so much, I do not see why the larger community can't band together in this "Sand Box Game"

I see many here who label themselves as "Bounty Hunters", "Mercenaries", etc. but they refuse to live up to the job that they claim to be. Open is rampant with "Bad Guys" because this community let's them.

The people who escape to private or solo have themselves to blame just as much as they blame the "Griefers" in Open.

 

[Magic Man]

"What went wrong with Elite Dangerous"...

Nothing, it's a great game and hopefully will continue to grow.

What went wrong is that gamers today are not like they were 30 years ago. There are some of the same mentality and many of us from those times still around and enjoying Elite for what it is. The trouble is the majority are console fed knuckle draggers who have to be constantly fed entertainment because they are incapable of enjoying something for what it is and unable to use their imaginations to aid their enjoyment.

They want everything to be buffed as large/fast/quick as possible so that they can rank up/earn credits fast.

They want everything made as simple as possible because things with thought, procedure and reasoning behind them are beyond their grasp

They want instant this, instant that. They complain because they have to put time in to get the rewards, they complain because things don't work as they want them to work (usually a single button press). They complain because things go wrong when it's clearly their own dumb fault.

They care nothing for depth, feeling nor intention of a game development, it's just another game they want to end game. They just want to be able to instantly jump somewhere to play with their like minded buddies smashing things up, sod everyone else and the game they want, just make it another arcade shoot up.

Shut up and stop trying to ruin my game...

 

[Vandaahl]

This is the problem. The fact that players need an incentive to join Open is just as greedy as you think of the people who want "victims" Right now Open is dominated by the "Bad Guys" because they are allowed to by the community. It seems that a majority of the Solo/Private players who post here think of one thing and one thing only. "I do not want to be blown up" They act like they won't have an impact in Open or are powerless to do anything about it. With this mindset, the community around here has already lost to the "Bad Guys" It's a defeated mentality that is encouraged around here.

Why can't joining Open and conducting operations at CG's or holding valuable trade routes be enough incentive for someone to play in Open? Imagine how hard it would be for a certain group of "Griefers" to operate if a certain group of 20k+ players started operating in Open? If those 20k+ players banded together in Open it would be quite a force to be reckoned with. That force could own and operate in territories due to sheer numbers alone. Again, THOUSANDS of players are allowing themselves to be defeated by literally a handful of players.

When a group of 15 or players are able to "drive players to Solo" and with a community that outnumbers a "Griefing" community so much, I do not see why the larger community can't band together in this "Sand Box Game"

I see many here who label themselves as "Bounty Hunters", "Mercenaries", etc. but they refuse to live up to the job that they claim to be. Open is rampant with "Bad Guys" because this community let's them.

For a solo/grouped player there is no community. He does not want to play with you. He would of played offline, or on lan with his friends.

Live with it. Or not.

 

[Kristov]

E: D didn't go wrong, nor did FD with it's design and development, it's what they wanted to make, it's what many of us wanted to see and want to play.

There are however certain PLAYERS who picked up the wrong game for various reason, they didn't understand what it was, they try to impose their vision of what the game should be on the game and other players, and that doesn't work, so, the game is broken!

Nope, sorry, game isn't broken, it's just not what some people want. Best solution, those folks go play the games that do what they want to do instead of carping on and on about how E: D doesn't do those things, things that were never part of the game's design plan. Many of those complaints on the reddit thread are from obvious EvE players, not all, but quite a few. Makes sense, they wanted EvE with a cockpit view, not what DB and FD offered, ever, matter of fact, they've been adamant that it would never be that at all, but people still try to insist it should be EvE with a cockpit view. See the same thing going on in the Star Citizen forums as well, people want EvE with a cockpit view, and Chris Roberts and CIG going 'uh, no, it's not EvE with a cockpit view, it never will be', exactly the same as these forums. Funny too, since I know the Goons from EvE went from MWO to SC, but they are now gone from SC as well, can't do what they like to do in SC, it's not EvE with a cockpit view after all, and the harassment and griefing, bad idea in a game with permadeath like SC.

Those folks on the reddit thread, many of them at any rate, need to go find a game that actually does what they want, not try to get other games remade into what they want. Or they could mod something into what they want, SC will offer that option, private servers, not connected to the 'real game world', and they will even be putting out a manual on how to not only run a server but how to mod the game and the objects in it for those private servers. Might really be the best option for those folks wanting EvE with a cockpit view, cause Valkyrie sure ain't gonna be that...you'd think CCP would have figured out after Dust that the players want their actions to matter in EvE from those side games...then again, CCP isn't know for giving a rat's furry rear end what it's customers want, so there is that.

 

[Sandmann]

This is the problem. The fact that players need an incentive to join Open is just as greedy as you think of the people who want "victims" Right now Open is dominated by the "Bad Guys" because they are allowed to by the community. It seems that a majority of the Solo/Private players who post here think of one thing and one thing only. "I do not want to be blown up" They act like they won't have an impact in Open or are powerless to do anything about it.

While I'm sure there's some who feel this way, as I told the OP earlier, most simply don't want to play PvP. They're not scared, they don't need teaching, bribing, or forcing, they play for fun and they SIMPLY DON'T FIND PvP FUN. Period. That's WHY mobius is so big, coz so many people WANT social gaming WITHOUT the PvP. That is of course anathema to the OP because his game style NEEDS victims, but his victims DON'T need him.

 

[sndle9]

For anyone tired of the philosophical doom and gloom discussions - here's a video of the OP being rammed to death.

Ha Ha, good clip! That's why they need fleet management etc. Clearly a mere 3:1 engagement against a capable pilot was not enough of an advantage .

 

[xXR34P3RXx]

I might be too late for this but nobody has mentioned this yet: The community.You guys have to understand that Elite is a very old game, the biggest part of the player base that backed the original project when it first appeared on kickstarter are people in their late 40's. They backed it out of nostalgia, they wanted to see a new Elite like the game they grew up with. This means they are all very conservative in what Elite can and can't be, when the developers announced that Elite would be using a MMO architecture which required you to be always online,      hit the fan big time on the forums.
OP mentions the E subreddit is kind of dead, this is true. But this is because the subreddit was actually part of the more progressive, younger audience who really wanted to see Elite move forward. The core gamers of Elite are on the official forums, and they are still as active as they've always been; shutting down any and all ideas that do not fit in the "Elite experience" they remember. This is what's been holding the entire game back; Frontier wanting to cater to their loyal and original fans, which really is quite admirable if you ask me. But for us, the "youths" that want some more      to do in a modern space sim, it's just tough     .
It mostly stings because Elite is such an advanced and well crafted game, devoid of content sure, but so incredibly well made. The thought of what it could be looms over this game every time I revisit it. But it will probably never be more than it is now, such a shame.

Hey, they're talking about you guys.

Thats this place to a tee.

 

[Scoopy Doopy]

Pretty much how I feel and what I want. I really wish powerplay was more story driven content, wouldn't you like to defend a farragut from pirates or another faction?

Couldn't interest me less

 

[sndle9]

Seeing this thread has passed over the event horizon and deteriorated into the eternal PVP Griefganker punks vs Solo loving 1984 Carebear Senior argument, I'm going to unsubscribe now. I have a VHS vs Betamax thread on CIX that needs attention. See you in the void, CMDRs!

No point, Betamax is clearly technically superior. VHS just had a better marketing team.

 

[TomP]

Bah. Fancy-Shmancy newfangled stuff. I go back to the original dispute: Whether a club made of birchwood or oak tree is better to smash a skull in...

Whereas everybody knows that a chunk of rock beats your wooden club...

 

[Flossy]

What went wrong? NOTHING! Working as intended - and great fun!

 

[STINKFISH]

[/I]Just as an aside, there's more than a few very credible studies correlating online griefing, trolling etc behaviours and low empathy & narcisism, with high reliability. Google it...

Shesh....all those emotions, and human characteristics are found in a school playground....

...nothing wrong with it either, and as adults we are allowed to revert to our more primal selves within the realms of fantasy games. This type of online gaming behavior is well documented with high reliability - you would of thought Fdev had done a credible study on it before embarking on their first ever online game..

But yeah very relevant to the OP's thread title - "WHAT WENT WRONG WITH ELITE DANGEROUS"

 

[Kewpa Eurus]

If the majority of you criticizing this post as being "whiney" actually read the thread you would realize it's not an Eve comparison thread. It is actually far from it. It touches on critical points that would improve the game while not making it "Eve".

I've been playing since launch and I've done pretty much all there could be done in this game.

Trading - Did this for a month straight to get into a Python when I first started off. There were only 3 commodities I looked to trade and the rest were useless fillers for the screen. My route was barely effected by the BGS and the market was highly predicatable.

Exploration - Did this for 2 weeks to visit the Bubble Nebula. Sort the Galaxy via KGBFOAM, jump and honk the horn and jump again. There were some really great views but at the end of the day my exploration data meant nothing. Nothing signifigant in game would be done with this data. "Oh you found a great Earth-Like, that's cool we'll just let it sit there with plans to colonize or build a F.O.B. to allow CMDRs a resting point far away from the bubble.

Pirating - I did a lot of this, it was a blast. It presented a challenge that was unpredictable and every encounter was unique. This is one of the activities that truly created emergent game play.

PvP- Again the only other activity that actually had emergent game play. People who were willing to defend traders at CG's was the most refreshing thing in this game.

After participating in all of these activities, there really isn't much to do but to travel to CG's and create content according to my loyalties to the factions in game. God forbid that my loyalties are opposite of the factions of the CG and I try to stop any CMDRs that support the factions that rival my own.

At the end of the day most of the activities are pretty much rinse and repeat activities with no real effect on the Universe. Please don't use the argument that you are supposed to be "No one" Something like the discovery of a planet in which to launch future exploration operation from to reach even further into the opposite side of the galaxy could and should be something significant. Bringing a majority of medical supplies to a doomed station should and could be significant. Defending the Old Worlds from a Pirate Scourge should and could be something significant.

The post this thread refers to does not want the game to be like Eve, but wants a bit more meat on the bone, which is more than reasonable.

Some people are more than satisfied with the game how it is now, which is OK. But why would you tell someone to not reach for the stars when you are content at just looking at the stars?

 

[sndle9]

Na, the club has the superior range and gives you an advantage....

(quickly ties rock to club)... Behold! The ultimate weapon! This will never be bested.

 

[Phosphora]

This is the problem. The fact that players need an incentive to join Open is just as greedy as you think of the people who want "victims" Right now Open is dominated by the "Bad Guys" because they are allowed to by the community. It seems that a majority of the Solo/Private players who post here think of one thing and one thing only. "I do not want to be blown up" They act like they won't have an impact in Open or are powerless to do anything about it. With this mindset, the community around here has already lost to the "Bad Guys" It's a defeated mentality that is encouraged around here.

Why can't joining Open and conducting operations at CG's or holding valuable trade routes be enough incentive for someone to play in Open? Imagine how hard it would be for a certain group of "Griefers" to operate if a certain group of 20k+ players started operating in Open? If those 20k+ players banded together in Open it would be quite a force to be reckoned with. That force could own and operate in territories due to sheer numbers alone. Again, THOUSANDS of players are allowing themselves to be defeated by literally a handful of players.

When a group of 15 or players are able to "drive players to Solo" and with a community that outnumbers a "Griefing" community so much, I do not see why the larger community can't band together in this "Sand Box Game"

I see many here who label themselves as "Bounty Hunters", "Mercenaries", etc. but they refuse to live up to the job that they claim to be. Open is rampant with "Bad Guys" because this community let's them.

The people who escape to private or solo have themselves to blame just as much as they blame the "Griefers" in Open.

I have no problem with there being a visceral, dog-eat-dog world running in Open. I play in Solo because I like the quiet, the lack of interaction, the chance to plan ahead and do what I like, when I like.

I am not frightened of PvP. I am bored by PvP. I was not driven to Solo, I prefer it there.

People have differing personalities. What is exciting to you will be dull and boring to another person. Frontier have done a good job of embracing the diversity in the gamer population, and that needs to continue.

Cheers, Phos.

 

[Kewpa Eurus]

I would argue that playing Solo is quite fine if you don't want to play with a community, which is OK. Open is the only true way for a game to be a sand box and to have emergent content, which is OK. Private Groups do nothing but hurt the game.

I've been living with it since launch and have no problems with it.

"Live with it. Or not." If this "end all" argument was constantly used then any possible improvements or suggestions would be suppressed, which is not a good thing...especially for a team that has a 10 year plan.

 

[TomP]

(quickly ties rock to club)... Behold! The ultimate weapon! This will never be bested.

Throws rocks from safe distance with varying degrees of accuracy.

 

[Vorxian]

Private Groups do nothing but hurt the game.

Not sure if the +/- 25k players in a particular private group would agree....

 

[Komemiute]

What went wrong with Elite Dangerous.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/4e61fr/what_went_wrong_elite_dangerous/

/Discuss

Very easy. Unrealistic expectations from people who have no idea what Elite means.
Done.

Next?

 

[CMDR Muy Bien Gato]

"What went wrong with Elite Dangerous"...

Nothing, it's a great game and hopefully will continue to grow.

What went wrong is that gamers today are not like they were 30 years ago. There are some of the same mentality and many of us from those times still around and enjoying Elite for what it is. The trouble is the majority are console fed knuckle draggers who have to be constantly fed entertainment because they are incapable of enjoying something for what it is and unable to use their imaginations to aid their enjoyment.

They want everything to be buffed as large/fast/quick as possible so that they can rank up/earn credits fast.

They want everything made as simple as possible because things with thought, procedure and reasoning behind them are beyond their grasp

They want instant this, instant that. They complain because they have to put time in to get the rewards, they complain because things don't work as they want them to work (usually a single button press). They complain because things go wrong when it's clearly their own dumb fault.

They care nothing for depth, feeling nor intention of a game development, it's just another game they want to end game. They just want to be able to instantly jump somewhere to play with their like minded buddies smashing things up, sod everyone else and the game they want, just make it another arcade shoot up.

Shut up and stop trying to ruin my game...

Quite the sweeping generalizations you've made there, bub.

I think straw man arguments like this are counterintuitive to those who actually enjoy this game but can also critique its many flaws. For one, space sims have a particular expectation of "depth" to them. When you have a massive galaxy at your disposal, at the very least there is a certain promise of variety that should follow. As many have already mentioned, Elite has the caveat of experiencing everything within approximately 10 hours of play. Farmed a RES/CZ? You've experienced the combat. Jumped around to a few systems? You're a regular ol' Magellan. Traveled from point a to point b to sell goods? Congrats, you capitalist swine, you've totally figured out the market.

The very fundamental flaw of Elite isn't the galaxy itself, nor is it the flight model or sound design. Obviously ALL of that is top-notch. Elite's biggest flaw is its very foundation; it's a stick without a carrot. It's a hamster wheel without momentum. It's simply not that "fun". It's a slog.

The rewards and awe of exploration quickly wear off once you discover that no matter where you are in this massive galaxy, you'll run into signals, downed beacons, "pirate traps", and the like. There is no genuine satisfaction to discovery when you realize that even thousands of light years outside the bubble will warrant the very same discoveries as the most populated systems. There is no gratification to bounty hunting when your only reward is watching AI spawn until you land a 100k+ bounty and build enough CR to cash in.

Why do people tend to flock to CGs? Well that's easy, it's one of the only things that has a somewhat visible outcome from player involvement. It's also very niche, because it not only demands that players keep up with current events, it also requires a certain dedication to ED that some players don't really have time for. Yet that visible outcome is what keeps people attached. That's the carrot missing from so many other aspects of ED.

2.1 purports to solve this with a similar philosophy attached to regular missions, and I certainly hope that it works. I'm one of the odd players that thoroughly enjoys landing on planets, regardless of how barren they are. But I sure as hell don't condemn anyone for not enjoying that same thing. I understand why most people find that a complete bore, because like so many other things in ED, once you've experienced it, you've experienced it all. Some of us want to see more. Elite is a great game, but sorely lacking. Falling into the camp of "doom and gloom" or "Elite fanboy" really does nothing but instill selfish tribalism and divide a community of people who, more or less, just enjoy space.