I would think that smuggling would be more tolerated than piracy as it is a victimless crime so insurance revocation would make no sense in that case. As far as assassination goes, well I guess that all depends on who your target is and where it happens. As your target would not be a member of the Pilot's Federation my guess is that they simply would not give a hoot, therefore you should suffer the normal penalties if it is a clean target but no insurance loss as the Pilot's Federation simply wouldn't care.
What Would Make Most Players Happy?
- Thread starter Darkphoenix
- Start date
I would think that smuggling would be more tolerated than piracy as it is a victimless crime so insurance revocation would make no sense in that case. As far as assassination goes, well I guess that all depends on who your target is and where it happens. As your target would not be a member of the Pilot's Federation my guess is that they simply would not give a hoot, therefore you should suffer the normal penalties if it is a clean target but no insurance loss as the Pilot's Federation simply wouldn't care.
It's actually not on the surface it is what the post is supposed to be about from my perspective. From your point of view you are using it as a stage to voice your own thoughts about what you think traders should do when faced by a player pirate which has little to nothing to do with my original post.
Nothing necessarily says a npc isn't part of the pilots federation....
It's funny how real-world views and values creep into a game where we're trying to create a criminal elements on purpose, yet complain about it existing.
I'm not a pirate, and I'll never be one. At best I might be a privateer if there was a cause I felt was worth fighting for and had a metaphorical Letter of Marque to harass enemy shipping (side note: pirates looking for an air of legitimacy can always take this approach - privateering is, historically, a respectable pursuit - and possibly even easier to encourage with PowerPlay I hope
)
But without pirates then bounty hunting gets relegated to fighting NPCs. We need pirates and it needs to be an attractive option to a certain kind of player.
That's not to say it should be easy or consequence free. The life of a pirate is dangerous because literally everyone else in the galaxy who isn't part of your brotherhood is going to hate you (as they should, in game). You should be on the run, with little or no safe haven outside of Anarchies (I look forward to seeing how the new bounty system will work out). It's something to embrace, not complain about. But of course the profit should be there to make it worth while, too.
I'm not a pirate, and I'll never be one. At best I might be a privateer if there was a cause I felt was worth fighting for and had a metaphorical Letter of Marque to harass enemy shipping (side note: pirates looking for an air of legitimacy can always take this approach - privateering is, historically, a respectable pursuit - and possibly even easier to encourage with PowerPlay I hope
) But without pirates then bounty hunting gets relegated to fighting NPCs. We need pirates and it needs to be an attractive option to a certain kind of player.
That's not to say it should be easy or consequence free. The life of a pirate is dangerous because literally everyone else in the galaxy who isn't part of your brotherhood is going to hate you (as they should, in game). You should be on the run, with little or no safe haven outside of Anarchies (I look forward to seeing how the new bounty system will work out). It's something to embrace, not complain about. But of course the profit should be there to make it worth while, too.
If that is your interpretation, then fine. However, I wish to clarify that the relationship between traders and pirates fractures further precisely due to the lack of communication and some tacit consent, or unwritten guidelines. I merely wish to bring that to the surface.
The balance cannot be occur with a severely fractured relationship, that is what I attempted to convey.
I will never give consent to piracy or unsolicited PvP. I am not playing the game to be someone else's entertainment. And before you go off on the well worn 'but piracy and PvP are part of the game and you give consent by being in Open' let me address this fallacy immediately.
Firstly, yes piracy is in the game but no, it does not have to be player pirate against player trader. Also, piracy in the well settled, policed core systems should be almost unheard of. As you move out towards the frontier then things start to become more dangerous until you are in anarchy systems where anything goes. At the moment the game is on its head where all the pirates (the player pirates anyway) are gathered right in the heart of supposedly settled space. Residents and especially businesses of any of the major factions would not put up with this. The economy would collapse due to sky high prices as traders tried to cover their losses. Until this is sorted out Piracy is a joke and I will not submit to it.
Secondly, PvP. Or 'Interaction' as PvPers like to call it. PvP is PART of the game, actually quite a small part when you compare it to the other things players are engaged in to get their fun from the game. Unfortunately, the very vocal PvP minority seem to think that PvP actually IS the game, ALL of the game. There are far too many players leaving Open and going off either to Solo or to groups like Mobius' simply because of the fear that has been raised about ganking, griefing and PvP in general. Open mode is OPEN mode, it is not PVP mode. There actually are players in Open who want to be there for the other kind of 'Interaction', the one that doesn't involve guns and missiles. When I am in Open I will not consent to PvP. I am not your entertainment. Until some form of PvP 'flagging' is introduced to facilitate the more peaceful players who want to interact without the pew pew I will do the unthinkable and combat log every time. I repeat, I am not in Open to be someone else's entertainment.
Finally, the assumed tacit consent simply by being in Open mode. This is a fiction, pure and simple. Consent has to be given, it cannot be assumed. You try pulling that stunt in a court of law. "Oh I assumed she gave consent m'lord cos she was like... in my neighbourhood." FD has said 'Play the game YOUR way'. Well my way doesn't involve some PvP kiddy in a twinked out out combat ship getting his jollies from my poor little type 6... UNLESS I SAY SO.
Last edited:
This I agree with and you are right, there is a need for pirates to exist in game. I think most people agree with this point fully, however it should be limited to the locales where it is prevalent. It should be extremely difficult in medium security systems and pretty much non-existent in high security systems with it being rife in anarchies and systems in dispute.
Bahaha... I like this guy.
I can definitely see your perspective, and understand it well, I believe.
I agree that piracy really shouldn't happen in high-security systems, and I am all for harsher punishment for piracy/acts of crime as long as there is a significant increase in our profit. You are free to disagree with the current security setting within game, as long as you do not combat-log, or exploit, I have no problem with you running away from pirates. However, if you believe that it warrants you the right to exploit, I have to disagree.
PvP is a form of player interaction, it involves combat. It is indeed only a part of the game. However, by saying that, one must expect PvP to occur without a huge notifying board on the top of your notification panel "THIS PLAYER IS GOING TO SHOOT YOU."
Everything should be integrated in Open. There will be people that role-play, people that talk, people that shoot, people that grief, people that pirate, etc.
Perhaps the word "consent" is too strong, how about "expect"?
When one is in Open mode, one "expects" to be dragged into combat, dragged into talking to people, dragged into grieving, dragged into piracy, etc.
Does that seem better?
I do think that you have a point with some of your post (I can't agree with combat logging, sorry), in my opinion when in supercruise one should not be able to tell who is player and who is npc which would curb those that only target players. One should only be able to tell if someone is in the Pilot's Federation (a player) when out of supercruise and a close inspection (scan) of the ship can be initiated. If this was implemented then traders that are not fans of pvp would at least be secure in the knowledge that it was just bad luck that they got interdicted by a player and were not specifically targeted.
Sure, call it 'expect' if you want and I agree with you up to a point. That point being when some guy interrupts a nice conversation I am having with some other players and wants me to engage in combat, even if 'combat' just means sitting there and being blown apart with no cargo. That is the point I reserve my right to say... "nah, don't want to do that. Think I'll go and watch some TV now." CLICK.
I doubt you will find anywhere where it says I have to stay and play. Unlike almost all people here I have read both the EULA and the CoC and unsurprisingly there is nothing mentioned. I am not cheating (as per the CoC) because I am not gaining anything. Let me underline that I am not gaining anything, which is ALL the CoC is interested in. All I am doing is calling it a night and turning my PC off.
By the way. I am also using 'combat logging' as a catch all term to include the many ways P2P allows us to do what we want... until FD get around to REALLY letting us 'Play the way you want'.
Last edited:
Although I feel for Joe, and I agree piracy and criminality in general is completely bonkers right now, Open Play is a living, breathing universe, comparable to a real universe which may exist in 1,300 years. When the game is complete enough to avoid all of this controversy, I'm sure Joe will do what we want, what we all truly want.
However, in case i did read that incorrectly, Joe, are you to say that when piracy is completed and working 100%, and someone in Open Play tries to pirate you, you're going to Combat Log? Even if it's in a High-Sec sector? Everyone must understand that this is a game about survival and riches, a brutal universe, and if someone can kill you in a High-security area, you'll have to suck it up. As a pirate, I understand that it's far too easy until you have at least a 120,000 bounty, and even then it's still something to laugh at. In Lave, a High-Sec, I was once chased by a 5-member police kill-squad, and later an FdL, but I had no problem running from either. When you have a bounty in High-Sec, police should be waiting in SC to interdict you, you should have Dangerous-Elite Vultures/FdLs after you, and opponents with ships clearly intended to counter yours. in Imperial Space, if I fly a Cobra with a large bounty, I expect a well-kit Clipper to chase me, or a wing of 2-3 Cobras with A-thrusters, at least. I need more challenge, and ofc more gain.
Did I go off-track? I'm spewing my thoughts onto my keyboard, sorry
Although I feel for Joe, and I agree piracy and criminality in general is completely bonkers right now, Open Play is a living, breathing universe, comparable to a real universe which may exist in 1,300 years. When the game is complete enough to avoid all of this controversy, I'm sure Joe will do what we want, what we all truly want.
However, in case i did read that incorrectly, Joe, are you to say that when piracy is completed and working 100%, and someone in Open Play tries to pirate you, you're going to Combat Log? Even if it's in a High-Sec sector? Everyone must understand that this is a game about survival and riches, a brutal universe, and if someone can kill you in a High-security area, you'll have to suck it up. As a pirate, I understand that it's far too easy until you have at least a 120,000 bounty, and even then it's still something to laugh at. In Lave, a High-Sec, I was once chased by a 5-member police kill-squad, and later an FdL, but I had no problem running from either. When you have a bounty in High-Sec, police should be waiting in SC to interdict you, you should have Dangerous-Elite Vultures/FdLs after you, and opponents with ships clearly intended to counter yours. in Imperial Space, if I fly a Cobra with a large bounty, I expect a well-kit Clipper to chase me, or a wing of 2-3 Cobras with A-thrusters, at least. I need more challenge, and ofc more gain.
Did I go off-track? I'm spewing my thoughts onto my keyboard, sorry
No Sorry, you are getting sucked in by the 'assumed consent' thing. There is no assumed consent just because I am in Open. Open mode is just that, it is Open. It is there to play the way you want. The way I want is not to be somebody else's fun for five minutes. The way I want is to interact with others, maybe to cooperate with others. That is how I get my fun. Some joker jumping me is not what I consider fun, it is not why I am playing. I want the OTHER kinds of interaction. Therefore I do not give my consent to unsolicited PvP or piracy. Ok, I MAY accept it, if I am in the mood but if I'm not then... I won't. Like I said in my earlier post, I will switch off my PC and go and watch TV. And there is nothing, anywhere, in any game that says I have to sit and play if I don't want to. So, you see. Consent cannot be assumed. Consent has to be given on a case by case basis and in almost all cases I am not going to give that consent.
Well, as unfortunate as this sounds I don't think I can agree with combat logging regardless of its context, sorry.
I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt until, you started defending combat logging. You're just flat out wrong int this case. The game creators themselves have said it's wrong.
Honestly Joe, while I empathize with your reasoning, it does go against the spirit of the game. If you're in open you should be open to the possibility of bad things happening that you have no control over. It's a challenge - you don't have to engage - use every trick in your book to escape. Feel the thrill of it if you succeed.
For the kind of experience you're talking about, it sounds like you should be in Mobius group. No PvP there outside of Combat Zones and if someone broke those rules and engaged you in PvP outside a CZ, then you'd be perfectly justified in logging.
For the kind of experience you're talking about, it sounds like you should be in Mobius group. No PvP there outside of Combat Zones and if someone broke those rules and engaged you in PvP outside a CZ, then you'd be perfectly justified in logging.
I don't typically see eye-to-eye with scumbag murdering pirates
but in this case I agree. combat logging is wrong. right now it's just a programming error. In other games, logging off in the middle of a fight just means your ship sits there without guidance -- some for a minute, some till the end of the match. While there currently is no penalty (emphasis on "currently"), its more or less universally frowned upon. And there will be some fix in the future, most likely leaving you sitting out in the open defenseless. so, I'd not get used to that as a tactic if I were you.I don't typically see eye-to-eye with scumbag murdering pirates
With the P2P networking, we cannot have players sitting around after they log, as their ships are hosted by them.
Yup, a problem I am sure was brought up several times from the kickstarter on I am sure....hosting should have been on servers maintained by FD but nothing can be done about that now as that ship has already sailed. I'm in the minority but to me a subscription would have been worth it to completely nullify combat logging. If the proper checks and balances were put in place it may reduce the number of people that exploit it but I am sure there would still be some that would unfortunately.