What's your beef with this sublime game?

First things first let's get the obligatory showering of adulation out the way. Elite, without a doubt, is an incredible accomplishment. For it's genre it possesses qualities that can arguably be said to be perfect. in some aspects it is literally above any and all criticism. It has a heritage that spans decades and its creator's dedication to this pedigree is beyond reproach. David Braben obviously cares deeply about it and it shows in almost every facet of the game. With that said there is something that inarguably leaves a hollow space in whatever it is we satisfy by playing games and I'd like to know, as specifically as you can say, what simple improvements do you think could fill those irritating absences.

For me it's the way FD seems to think obstacles are equivalent to puzzles and it leads me to wonder about the creative department. The aspects of the game that most highlight this for me is the Engineers and, having recently got into exploration, Detailed Surface Scanning. Elite's pedigree may have demanded it keeps a certain character but I think with the imminent release of Odyssey that pedigree has been irrevocably altered and I'd love for them to embrace it by doing something radical in the direction of fun and engaging gameplay.

Engineering is a hugely wasted opportunity to have a perfect little side game. In reality chance does not play a role in designing and building equipment. All constituent parts are purpose built to serve a role as efficiently as possible and to work in harmony with it's other constituent parts. The game itself is brilliant example of this. David Braben hasn't ignored any aspect where his expertise could accurately reflect his vision and the reality it's set in. However this has led me to wonder hard about how he views and employs creative people and abstract game design. The pure random nature of rolling for upgrades is baffling and it is reflected in the Detailed Surface Scanner. Both of these dynamics are crying out for a minigame, both of which could employ an encouragement to learn a little about maths or geometry in keeping with what seems to be Mr. Braben's philosophy to make Elite something more than a shooty game. There are tonnes of simple but enormously engaging puzzle game apps now for mobiles. What is it do you think that prevents FD from injecting something like this to give those moments of passive observing more appeal? In fact in the case of exploration I'd argue it is desperately needed. I spent more than two hours in one system yesterday scanning every world because the current CG is asking for 2 million scanned worlds with bonuses for Ammonia Worlds.

I remember when mining was just about sitting there lasering asteroids but something motivated him to apply the same pedigree to that as to the traditional game. Do you think they made it brilliant because they knew it would be needed for people to get into Fleet Carriers?
 
First off, the current CG is of new breed, asking exclusively for Ammonia worlds. So if it's CG participation you're after you can safely ignore everything apart from mapping AWs.
Also, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "pure random nature of rolling for upgrades", maybe a misunderstanding on my side? In any case engineering used to be pure random on release but hasn't been so for quite some time. Implementing a gambling mechanic was arguably one of the worst design decisions - certainly bad enough that I left the game over it back then.
So in answer to your opening question this used to be my biggest gripe with ED. Nowadays the whole engineering process is (apart from some semi random values in-between) is very much deterministic and with the help of EDSY/Coriolis and EDEngineer folks are indeed planning and finetuning their ship equipment well in advance.
My biggest beef with FDev these days is their lackluster approach to fixing bugs. Sure, they have recently started some long overdue balancing and of course most of the team has been working on Odyssey the last couple of years but it has been like this since well before that. Features and bugs are only ever worked on until they reach a "good enough for rock'n'roll" state. To be fair this isn't unique to either FDev, ED or even the games industry but more a bad aspect of commercial software development in general. A good friend of mine already left ED precisely because of all the unfinished and unfixed bits and pieces but compared to the enormous uptick in player numbers over the last couple of months that's but a drop in a bucket of recurrent spending.
The reason I picked up Elite in the first place was the disappointment that was (and for me still is) No Man's Sky but at the same time the post launch support by Hello Games has been absolutely stellar, the same can be said for The Long Dark by Hinterland Games and I wish we could get some of that spirit over here. As it is the game is "good enough" for me and the recent ramp up with CG's and GalNet does keep me busy but I'm hoping that one of these days I'll be able to call up my friend, tell him how things have changed and wing up with them once more.

/rant :whistle:
 
My grief with Engineering is that it is nothing but a glorified grindwall. It Always produced the same results in the end. I had much rather see a tweaking system similar to various street racing games where you can exchange one value for another. Ex: longer range weapon, but faster or more extreme heat build up per shot.

Engineers should produce unique, but scientific, results, not Just be a ladder to better equipment.


As to my gripe with the game, the Exploration suite; it took something unfinished and replaced it with something worse.

Then, to make That worse, they took ALL of the automation out of the process, so we are using sensors 1300+ years more advanced than today and still having to manually find things the same way Galileo did. The ship can tell me there is a new signal source detected half a million LS away, but I still have to "swing the telescope around" at random until I find it.

It was a half-arsed attempt at placating the Exploration crowd that FD was giving them content. Oh, yes, and, with the empirical evidence of multiple player driven expeditions that Explorers are not profit driven, they waved money in our faces as a motivation after all of that.
 
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To add to your Engineering point.

There is one horrific and incredibly lazy aspect of engineering that I wish so BAD it would change.

Material gathering. Raw materials is fine since there are specific planets where you get ONLY the one type of G5 that you need and you get it consistently which results in no RNG no time wasted and you finish gathering pretty quick.

On the other hand.....encoded and manufactured materials are so incredibly RNG dependant that trying to gather them makes me want to put a gun in my mouth and pull the trigger.

The problems:
1. "Fdev approved" quality gameplay that is HGE hunting. The gameplay itself is lazy, it's stupid, it makes no sense considering what other types of interesting missions are available that you can do.
2. HGE's may or may not be in the system you are in.
3. HGE's may or may not be in the correct faction state even though the system you are in is in the correct state for the material you are looking for.
4. HGE's may or may not contain the specific material that you are looking for even though the signal itself may be in the correct faction state. Why? Since BRILLIANTLY ENOUGH they made more than one manufactured material line overlap with eachother in the same system state/faction/population
5. Pharmaceutical Isolators are simply broken. The HGE's in outbreak are so rare that you waste an incredible ammount of time finding just one.(There is a bug reported on this but since the "confirmation" mechanic is the way it is, it is largely ignored)

And don't get me started on the encoded data materials. There's one crashed ship where you get consistent G4 and G5 materials from just one line of encoded materials. So with the disgusting conversion rates between different lines of the same grade, you need to farm your brains out to get your full of the specific material you need. Other than this crashed ship there is no sure way to get a specific material, so it's even worse than manufactured and HGE's.
 
Lack of balance. Silent running nerfed by emmisive/night vision, mine arming time is absurd. Lack of balance in engineering resulting in absurd metas, gank-de-lance community, npcs being impossible to deploy mine against, npc being able to see me in silent mode, annoying scripted events if I'm carrying cargo/data/whatever and no events if I'm not. Stupid npcs.
Engineers requiring pseudo materials, engineering as it is now in general. I think it should be open for everyone but you couldn't add magical properties without significant drawbacks unique to different ships, essentially making non engineered ships and different ships viable too.
Balance balance balance.
 
The ship can tell me there is a new signal source detected half a million LS away, but I still have to "swing the telescope around" at random until I find it
To be fair you can select it then point your ship at it, but it's usually faster to swing at random and scan everything that way.
 
The biggest beef I have is the accumulating heap of unfixed bugs, most are small discrepancies but nonetheless they do decrease the quality of the game.
Fdev's support regarding bugfixing is abysmal to say the least, the frequency of bug fixes is very lacking imho, many bugs will have to wait untill a new content update is released or they won't get fixed at all.

I don't think I've ever played a game with in the internet era without so few bug fixes/patches , except Subnautica which is even worse on consoles.
 
The pure random nature of rolling for upgrades is baffling and it is reflected in the Detailed Surface Scanner.

The only random nature for engineers is the amount that the progress bar increases by (which I agree, is irritating and should be improved).

Surface scanning isn't random at all. It makes sense, too - you are firing probes at a planet and need to work out the best pattern to get full coverage.
 
Don't like limpets - a sane (ingame) engineer would have desgined them to be dockable, refuelable and armored (could perhaps take more cargo space and use ship fuel supply for refueling)
Don't like the combat hud (ships, cargo, limpets) - they appear in a small circle at the center of the screen, to get a good overview of the battlefield I'd like all of them to render all the time (and add wings and other important info to their icons)
Would be great if we could reconfigure ships we have at the same station that we're docked at but are not currently flying.
A distance column in the left hand side panel would be great (for both combat and mining)
Mission screen is needlessly obfuscated and confusing, sorting options would be great (distance, destination, mission type, etc)
Would be great if you could buy a trading license for each system/sector/whatever (like in X4) and maybe a mission license too, to get updated price/availability without having to dock at every station - could have a system hub (i.e.operating on a network of sattelites) where all this is listed. (or maybe a trading extension/mission extension module you have to fit in your ship?)
Collector limpets are very stupid and will cheerfully fly into asteroids instead of avoiding them.
The engineering grind is a bit much at times, but in lieu of actually content I suppose it is 'meh, fair enough'.

All that being said, the game is indeed great.
 
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My beef is that it's December and I can't give them my money for an Odyssey preorder. But for real, I think over time my biggest beef has become that there are so many things that just aren't worth doing or aren't working right.

Crime really doesn't pay, but yet also at the same time isn't as punishing as it should be in non-anarchy systems. Some missions types are at best, just not worth the time and effort, and at worst are sometimes/always broken.
 
1. Bugs.

Bugs have plagued the game for as long as I’ve been playing. I think it’s perfectly fine for a game the size of ED to get the occasional bug, what I don’t find ok is the length of time FD allow bugs to continue before a fix is issued. Months....years in some cases.


2. Credit inflation

I could harp on for hours about this and have already done so this week to the point I’ve almost talked myself into quitting playing.

Mission rewards, surface mapping payoffs, the total abomination that was mining and now not even sacred bounty hunting has managed to escape the lash of FD’s terrible judgement when it comes to balancing credit rewards with reasonable ship/career progression in their already ‘inch deep’ game.

This has made a significant number of the games ships obsolete and removed the need for using any kind of thought or creativity to succeed financially in Elite.

This problem is compounded further by the expense of Fleet Carriers and FD now scrabble futilely to escape the hole they dug themselves into while simultaneously trying to snap the rod they built for their own backs with mining 1.0...

3. Gleefully wasting players time

From long travel times, engineer unlocks, material gathering, ‘personal journeys’, signal sources, powerplay, SRV cargo limitations, broken mission stages...
 
Engineering should have stopped at grade 1 or 2 levels for defensive modules, armor, and weapons.

SB/HRP/MRP should not stack.

The 32 button limit per controller is absolutely ridiculous for a space sim/sandbox game. It would have been ridiculous in 2010 for a flight sim. The game being 6 years old is not a valid excuse.

I would have preferred if they added some more RPG elements to the game. Fallout 4 in space in the Elite universe. Quest lines to follow, or just play in the sandbox.
 
Biggest beef is the FOTM driven gameplay. Buffs and nerfs aren't used to create game balance, but rather herd players and bump the players online number upwards when it begins to dwindle. This shifting meta essentially removes choice from players. This is a shame since the game offers plenty of activities, but 90% of them are not worth doing.
 
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