Where do you draw the line? (in game behaviour)
- Thread starter Agony_Aunt
- Start date
When I die I wipe my character. (One day FD will implement IronMan as promised)
I know for a fact that when you die you use insurance to cheat death .. so, who is playing "ez mode" ?
It's easy to look down on others when they don't follow the same rules as you - that's an example of some artificial line people construct for themselves. They create rules and conditions that if you don't follow then somehow they are inferior to you (which was the implied meaning behind your post Daffan).
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Yeah sorry I sort just threw that down without explaining, in truth I didn't think anyone would really take much notice of it. Its got nothing to do with a kub-by-ya mindset, I appreciate and welcome adversarial behavior so long as its contained within the game environment, its a distinction between in and out of game.
There are many "bad" people within the game and I think that's fantastic but its strictly RP. For a long time I've watched people like Tigga (where are you?), Skafs and Subsync (amongst others), all of which play the adversarial role in game but are genuinely really nice people. They understand that their own continued enjoyment of the game depends on promoting the game and not driving people away from it by "bathing in tears". You wont see them bragging about ruining peoples games in forum posts, its fully contained within the game and there's a distinction between the two.
I've killed Cmdr's and I am actively hunting others but I simply wouldn't come home from a bad day at work and blow up random people for no purpose anymore than I would kick the cat or punch the wife and even If I was playing that role I wouldnt be here bragging about it (I would probably be apologising profusely). Its about having some consideration for your fellow players, I guess that comes from maturity which at times is sadly lacking
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dayrth
Volunteer Moderator
Line the first: Wheaton's Law. (Can't quote it here, but if anyone's ever bored on a long trip, listen to his PAX 2007 speech.)
I'm on my trip back from Sagittarius A*, all in the open, and naturally, that whole event bothered me. Not because of any sense of imminent danger - I'm flying with 4 pips to the shields, armour and some weapons. But we're talking about over two months of my spare time, wedged between work, kids and all the other "real" life stuff so I can pursuit a hobby. Being able to go to Sag A* is the first and foremost reason I bought Elite, and this trip means something to me - it's a test of my patience and my will to persevere, and it did a lot to really sink in the lesson of how awesome and huge our universe is.
To me, it's kind of a sad and pitiful thought to take that whole trip for the sole purpose of destruction and notoriety, it's like visiting the Louvre only to paint a mustache on the Mona Lisa.
Line the second: There is no line for in-game behaviour, but not everything is in-game.
It's easy to forget that the internet (and Elite as a multi-player game is in that regard nothing else but a prettier internet) is a channel of communication between human beings. The game might have no rules for in-game behaviour, but that does not remove the rules that govern human communication. There is a human being on the other side of the screen: You can roleplay a sociopath or an anti-social nihilist towards his character (and I respect the people who do that a lot, even if they make me feel uneasy), but you can also fall for the trap and act like a sociopath towards her or him directly, and there is a difference. My in-game character lives in a cutthroat galaxy, yeah, but for him it's only been about 30 hours to go to Sag A* and back, he doesn't lose much, except for money. I, on the other hand, would lose two months of personal investment, and everyone who enjoys taking that away doesn't enjoy roleplay, he enjoys hurting the person on the other side of the screen.
And all the arguments along the lines of "it's only a game", "ain't no rule" that are directed at the victim disregard that the perpetrator doesn't act in-game. He doesn't get credits or exp, he can't even pat himself on the back and say "good roleplay" and be done with it. He does it to ruin another real person's day, and that is neither a game, nor aren't there any rules.
Line the third: Character is what you are in the dark.
End of line. Jump!
I'm on my trip back from Sagittarius A*, all in the open, and naturally, that whole event bothered me. Not because of any sense of imminent danger - I'm flying with 4 pips to the shields, armour and some weapons. But we're talking about over two months of my spare time, wedged between work, kids and all the other "real" life stuff so I can pursuit a hobby. Being able to go to Sag A* is the first and foremost reason I bought Elite, and this trip means something to me - it's a test of my patience and my will to persevere, and it did a lot to really sink in the lesson of how awesome and huge our universe is.
To me, it's kind of a sad and pitiful thought to take that whole trip for the sole purpose of destruction and notoriety, it's like visiting the Louvre only to paint a mustache on the Mona Lisa.
Line the second: There is no line for in-game behaviour, but not everything is in-game.
It's easy to forget that the internet (and Elite as a multi-player game is in that regard nothing else but a prettier internet) is a channel of communication between human beings. The game might have no rules for in-game behaviour, but that does not remove the rules that govern human communication. There is a human being on the other side of the screen: You can roleplay a sociopath or an anti-social nihilist towards his character (and I respect the people who do that a lot, even if they make me feel uneasy), but you can also fall for the trap and act like a sociopath towards her or him directly, and there is a difference. My in-game character lives in a cutthroat galaxy, yeah, but for him it's only been about 30 hours to go to Sag A* and back, he doesn't lose much, except for money. I, on the other hand, would lose two months of personal investment, and everyone who enjoys taking that away doesn't enjoy roleplay, he enjoys hurting the person on the other side of the screen.
And all the arguments along the lines of "it's only a game", "ain't no rule" that are directed at the victim disregard that the perpetrator doesn't act in-game. He doesn't get credits or exp, he can't even pat himself on the back and say "good roleplay" and be done with it. He does it to ruin another real person's day, and that is neither a game, nor aren't there any rules.
Line the third: Character is what you are in the dark.
End of line. Jump!
Usually unless there is a price on your head I'm not interested.
However every time i read threads about griefing, grinding, insurance, PvP etc and the whining that goes on with it then it kinda makes me want to go on a all guns blazing killing spree!
I agree one hundred and thirteen percent with you! The winging that goes on is a form of griefing to me. Although I dont reply to these threads, I have decided that I have had enough of seeing them and staying quiet, here's my view on the subject. The answer is simple, click the start button then click the button that says "Shut Down", then you can go and grab your tissues at leisure.
This is an OPEN WORLD game. It is a game where you can do anything you damn well please. What do you think is going to happen? It is also a game where right at the start you are given a ship with two loaned frikken laser guns! Didn't that give you a clue as to the nature of the game? You get guns!!! And there's tutorials on how to use them!
Cowboy up, learn to evade and run, or move along to I Love Kitty games please, or if you're feeling brave enough Kerbal Space Program!
Brian
CMDR Smokey (Just so you can add me to the ingame ignore list - which is another option for you guys.)
Philip Coutts
Volunteer Moderator
The problem with having your own set of rules is that no-one else knows them. You can't get annoyed because someone doesn't play to "your" rules. Treat everyone with suspicion and play the way you want to but don't expect others to do the same...unfortunately.
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in life......
i have governors which determine how i behave.
the first one is...
how would i feel, if what i'm about to do to someone, was done to me?
and the second one is....
what would life be like if everyone did what i'm about to do?
it kinda shifts my perception onto the recipient of my actions.
i know that some claim the 'roleplaying' aspect, and usually go on to say that there are muderers in real life too,
but that doesnt mean you have to be one of them!.
i like having a conscience. it keeps me in check when i'm angry...
but also i get to feel good when i do nice things.
some people dont have a conscience...., you have to be wary of those people
in real life and in games.
i have governors which determine how i behave.
the first one is...
how would i feel, if what i'm about to do to someone, was done to me?
and the second one is....
what would life be like if everyone did what i'm about to do?
it kinda shifts my perception onto the recipient of my actions.
i know that some claim the 'roleplaying' aspect, and usually go on to say that there are muderers in real life too,
but that doesnt mean you have to be one of them!.
i like having a conscience. it keeps me in check when i'm angry...
but also i get to feel good when i do nice things.
some people dont have a conscience...., you have to be wary of those people
in real life and in games.
dayrth
Volunteer Moderator
No one has put this better
P.S. everyone should look up Wheaton's Law. (see my sig).
my don'ts:
I don't attack ships that scan as 'clean' until they hail me with the usual 'drop your cargo' stuff.
I don't have mercy if they do.
I don't attack ships that scan as 'clean' until they hail me with the usual 'drop your cargo' stuff.
I don't have mercy if they do.
And they laughed when I left in a 58mil asp loaded for bear to go to sag a. Difference is ill be coming back and getting paid.
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
wow, forgetting everything else it takes a special type of ... insert expletive of your choice here ..... to spoil potentially months of play just for giggles.
That being said, as much as DB has said that elite is primarily a co-op MP game where advasarial PvP is rare, and is a quote I have mentioned many times, conversely actually this very incident actually is one of the examples actually made where a player could get killed.
the example of where a player has some unique scanned systems and is racing to get them back as 1st finder and you as a rival may choose to take them out to beat them to the punch.
Me... i couldnt do it to someone, whilst it may be legitimate its just not my way to screw someone over that much, but it IS legitimate.
I am fine with players being mechanically able to do this, but that being said, once a player has done this, the game needs to push back really hard against it imo..... once CMDR Explorer wakes up in a station after being blown up there should be an (AI) explorers faction who really do take unkindly to this, and put a kill on site order out on the people committing crimes like this.
Anyone who played Frontier - or was it 1st encounters??? can probably remember getting continually attacked with "you really should not have messed with "insert name here" " I think we should see this implemented..
That being said, as much as DB has said that elite is primarily a co-op MP game where advasarial PvP is rare, and is a quote I have mentioned many times, conversely actually this very incident actually is one of the examples actually made where a player could get killed.
the example of where a player has some unique scanned systems and is racing to get them back as 1st finder and you as a rival may choose to take them out to beat them to the punch.
Me... i couldnt do it to someone, whilst it may be legitimate its just not my way to screw someone over that much, but it IS legitimate.
I am fine with players being mechanically able to do this, but that being said, once a player has done this, the game needs to push back really hard against it imo..... once CMDR Explorer wakes up in a station after being blown up there should be an (AI) explorers faction who really do take unkindly to this, and put a kill on site order out on the people committing crimes like this.
Anyone who played Frontier - or was it 1st encounters??? can probably remember getting continually attacked with "you really should not have messed with "insert name here" " I think we should see this implemented..
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Don't get me wrong but where is oficially saying (EULA, devs or whatever) Elite Dangerous is primarily co-op game? In my opinion this is for single/friends player mode but not for open.
No it is designed to be adversarial, or so says Sandro. David Braben is oft seen to say that you can shaft others if you want to. And yes it is sad.
You don't understand piracy or bounty hunting then.
pretty much every interview by DB he states that PvP will be possible but that he wanted to make the penalties for doing it outside of certain places to be v harsh, and in this way to encourage the game to be primarily cooperative.
I believe the comparison to us pilots federation members has been made with made men in the mafia, where you mess with them** at your peril.
**as I understand it, by this it means in blowing them up.... mugging via piracy is considered a tiny crime compared to ship destruction.
but then I admit I have my own bias so am sure if you look hard enough you could probably cherry pick your own comments where ED is meant to be COD in space!.
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hmm after seeing ians post i went back to the OP and seems I went off on a tangent
.to answer directly I draw the line at
attacking any player full stop.
perhaps in time I will change, but even then it will ONLY be players with a bounty. I have no interest in engaging with players who are not specced for fighting back.
In open I do not expect everyone to live by those rules however.
Anyone who chooses to pirate me however, IF I think I can take them I will shoot to kill, if not i will drop goods and run.
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I don't know but seems to me PVP is possible right now
Awesome idea! Said explorers faction could also provide special NPC wingmen for hire that are willing to accompany an explorer on longer trips than normal wingmen would be willing to do! (once we can hire NPC wingman, that is)
I just watched an interview with him on TYT inverviews and to be honest I always disliked Wesley from the show but after learning about the person behind the lens I have a new found respect for the guy. It's very easy to associate the person you see on screen (or in this case behind the KB in ED) with the actual person in real life. As {SAS}Stalker mentioned above acting as an adversarial character in game doesn't mean you are like that in real life as you're playing a part / role.
That said, I also didn't know about "Wheatons Law" and in the context of ED it certainly fits - thanks for the info ( +1 )