Why am I not surprised
Yeh, having seen last night that their challenger stats are also a bit off so, it's not that surprising. Wonder where they got the idea the phantom should have a similar flight profile to the chieftain!
Which Krait would you take? MKII vs Phantom
- Thread starter TheSisko
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Yeh, having seen last night that their challenger stats are also a bit off so, it's not that surprising. Wonder where they got the idea the phantom should have a similar flight profile to the chieftain!
While I’d fly it with a 16T tank anyway, I honestly believe the ship will come with a C5 tank (32T).
Like I said above, the E rated Phantom must weigh 50T less than the MkII. While I think the hull will likely be less than the 320T of the MkII, I doubt it actually has a 270T hull (320 - 50). Other changes must account for some of the lower mass too. Since the Phantom has one less large hardpoint and no SLF I’d say it’s likely both the power plant and distributor will be one size lower (C6 for both). This adds up to an 80T mass reduction though, so add 80T plus whatever the hull difference is and suddenly you end up way overbudget on the mass reductions to keep that 8.23lys when E-rated.
Now the PC Gamer article said the Phantom has additional cargo capacity over the MkII, so I feel that Coriolis has this wrong and that its highly likely the Phantom has larger optional internals than the MkII, not smaller like Coriolis assumes. The larger cargo racks would add some mass again, bringing us back up to the 50T difference it has to have.
Because of this I think it’s highly likely the Phantom has the same 32T fuel tank as the MkII does. Reducing it by 16T only makes hitting that 50T mass difference that much harder.
Interesting take on the numbers and I do hope you are right
.If it does indeed have a 32T fuel tank and bigger internals I'll take 2.
One Fuel Rat and one miner thank you.
The Replicated Man
T
To be honest Sisko, I liked the phantom better as soon as I saw the thrusters. Providing the Coriolis info is correct, The Phantom would make an excellent pvp hybrid. 590 boost, 4500 armor with a 5D mrp, and 800mj of shields with 3 boosters and a 6c bi weave.
Stealthie
Banned
Very thoughtful post. [up]
Having outfitted a Mk2 as a proper "all rounder" (guns, SLF, collectors, wake scanner, SRV, cargo racks etc) and then realised that it doesn't actually need the SLF, I'll be interested to see how well the Phantom does all the other "all rounder" stuff compared to the Mk2.
TBH, when I read all the discussion about the Phantom, based on unsubstantiated rumours, I just get a headache so I'll just buy one when it's released and then see if I can figure out what to do with it.
My gut feeling is that it'll simply be even more of an "AspX deluxe" than the Mk2 is - which isn't really much use to people who've already built Mk2s for that sort of role but, hey, if the Phantom can do the same thing for Cr10m less I guess that's good news for future builds.
The Replicated Man
T
I majorly engineered (G5 dirty drives) an E rated module last night. First time ever. I nearly cried.
My Python then had its drives stolen for the Challenger that I was building and the Challengers E rated dirty drives went in the Python for now (I might never change it again actually, heh, the python is too OP anyway
I find the python's pitch rate is terrible but thats just me.
It's very blue zone sensitive as you probably know, it's a slug, until the power level drops into the blue zone then it suddenly accelerates pitch dramatically. It really wants the exact middle of the blue zone, but yeh, I know what you mean, its pitch is disappointing too. Now that I'm trade elite, it's not going to see a lot of use, which is why it lost its drives AND FSD(!) yesterday to the challenger.
The Replicated Man
T
It's very blue zone sensitive as you probably know, it's a slug, until the power level drops into the blue zone then it suddenly accelerates pitch dramatically. It really wants the exact middle of the blue zone, but yeh, I know what you mean, its pitch is disappointing too. Now that I'm trade elite, it's not going to see a lot of use, which is why it lost its drives AND FSD(!) yesterday to the challenger.
My python is more than likely going to be used as a mining ship when the new update drops
My gut feeling is that the Phantom will be a Python alternative which trades combat ability for speed and jump range, whereas the range will also allow it to double as an Asp X alternative too when lightened up.
Taken the mathematical fact that the E-rated Phantom must have a laden mass of 698T which is 50 less than the MkII’s 748T, this is my best educated guesstimate as to how the Phantom’s internals might possibly look:
CORE:
Power Plant – C6 (40T E-rated, one size smaller than MkII)
Thrusters – C6 (40T E-rated, same as MkII)
FSD – C5 (20T E-rated, same as MkII)
Life Support – C4 (10T E-rated, same as MkII)
Distributor – C6 (40T E-rated, one size smaller than MkII)
Sensors – C6 (40T E-rated, same as MkII)
Fuel Tank – C5 (32T, same as MkII)
OPTIONAL:
C7 (64T rack stock, one size up from the MkII)
C6 (40T 6E shield in here stock)
C5 (32T rack stock)
C5 (32T rack stock)
C4
C3
C3 (4T rack stock)
C2
Hull – 300T (20T less than the MkII)
Weapons - 4T (for the standard two 1F pulse lasers)
All of this adds up to an E-rated Phantom coming in at 698T laden, which gives us that 8.23lys of range stock. It also gives the Phantom a 292T max cargo capacity, same as the Python’s. It would also allow for the Phantom to be a pretty capable mining ship due to that 128T cargo rack in the C7 spot.
What I don’t like is the 300T hull mass, as this means the Phantom could never jump as good as an Asp X can. I’ve played around with tons of configurations in excel though and I feel like this is the most likely design for the Phantom. The 300T hull also seems to support the speed numbers of 256/358 m/s given the C6 thrusters.
But this is all just a lot of theorycrafting, I could be way off too. It will be interesting to see just how close I am later this week.
280t hull would be great, a 270t hull would be fantastic. Hoping it's not as heavy as 300t, we will find out tomorrow most likely.
As an explorer, the Krait Phantom would need to be sitting around 280T (same as Asp) to be a viable option. The Krait Mk2 has great internals and can fit an SLF which is great for exploring potentially dangerous interests. And that ship sits at 320T hull mass. So if Krait Phantom is 300T, I'd much rather use the Mk2. The only way that the Phantom will be desirable is if she has, at the very least, the same hull mass and fuel tank size as the Asp Explorer. Also, her optionals need to be better than previewed on the Wiki, or she needs her price dropped significantly.
Very interesting!!!
Curious how the Phantom keeps the C7 plant and distributor if Coriolis is accurate, it really wouldn't need them but oh well. If correct then the math checks out though, that not only provides the 698T laden E-rated mass I predicted, but it also means the Phantom will jump BETTER than the Asp X!!!!!
It would also mean the PC Gamer article was wrong, as the Phantom would only have a max cargo cap of 188, that's lower than the MkII.
Yes, I drew the same conclusion about the Asp X. I'm playing around with coriolis now. Theoretical max I get for the Phantom, including Guardian FSD booster = 73.88, unladen 68.85.
Edit: Same treatment on the Asp X gives 72.23, unladen 67.45. So the Phantom is roughly 1.5 ish LY better IF the stats we are playing with now are correct.
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Did they confirm the fuel tank size? This is by far the biggest concern currently.
EDIT: Found the coriolis page and it shows a 32T tank!!
https://beta.coriolis.io/outfit/krait_phantom
OP, I'll have one or more of each. I already have two Kraits and they'll stay around.
Given how exploration is still the same joke of the gameplay loop as it is since launch (minus the new changes which I DOUBT will make your ship actually mean anything), jump range just means you go places faster.
The phantom is a scrap ship that was only designed and balanced with the idea of "reductionism." That is, making it worse in literally every way to the MK2 in every actual gameplay scenario except for a single number. Sure the jump range is bigger. But it'll do everything worse than the Krait. So there's literally no point in it existing.
They did the exact same things with the Alliance Ships. Each Chieftain derivative became worse and worse. Let's remove the large for TWO mediums which is less damage efficient and less energy efficient at the same time! Yeah! And add one more module slot but also shrink the rest of them so the actual utility of the ship becomes zilch! Oh, the Crusader? Let's remove one of those mediums and keep the internals the same but make both of those vessels even slower!
They can only do combat in slightly different manners but the end result is that the Chieftain was the best and most stand out design to begin with with an excellent load out. The rest are just, AGAIN, balanced by reductionism and weakning of random traits which severely impacts their overall efficacy to be nothing more than gimmick ships.
I expect the Phantom to be the same exact thing. A stripped down hull that does nothing the Krait can't do better except make a bit more jump range.
No thanks. Remove the phantom from the game and stop bloating the game with useless ships. It's literally just asset copying and pasting, no different than the Chieftain's derivatives.
Oh wait it has a reduced fuel tank? HAHAHA yeah what a joke. Delete the Phantom and give the Mamba some extra size 1 slots for some bloody utility! And a bigger fuel tank, bigger weight, and larger FSD to compensate for all of that while you're at it!
The phantom is a scrap ship that was only designed and balanced with the idea of "reductionism." That is, making it worse in literally every way to the MK2 in every actual gameplay scenario except for a single number. Sure the jump range is bigger. But it'll do everything worse than the Krait. So there's literally no point in it existing.
They did the exact same things with the Alliance Ships. Each Chieftain derivative became worse and worse. Let's remove the large for TWO mediums which is less damage efficient and less energy efficient at the same time! Yeah! And add one more module slot but also shrink the rest of them so the actual utility of the ship becomes zilch! Oh, the Crusader? Let's remove one of those mediums and keep the internals the same but make both of those vessels even slower!
They can only do combat in slightly different manners but the end result is that the Chieftain was the best and most stand out design to begin with with an excellent load out. The rest are just, AGAIN, balanced by reductionism and weakning of random traits which severely impacts their overall efficacy to be nothing more than gimmick ships.
I expect the Phantom to be the same exact thing. A stripped down hull that does nothing the Krait can't do better except make a bit more jump range.
No thanks. Remove the phantom from the game and stop bloating the game with useless ships. It's literally just asset copying and pasting, no different than the Chieftain's derivatives.
Oh wait it has a reduced fuel tank? HAHAHA yeah what a joke. Delete the Phantom and give the Mamba some extra size 1 slots for some bloody utility! And a bigger fuel tank, bigger weight, and larger FSD to compensate for all of that while you're at it!
If those stats on coriolis are correct, they I'll give FDev the thumbs up.
Power plant: C7
Thrusters: C6
FSD: C5
Life support: C4
Distributor: C7
Sensors: C6
Fuel tank: C5
Optional internals 6 5 5 5 3 3 3 2
Hull mass 270t