Why Advanced Docking & Supercruise Assist is Worth IT

[CMDR Big Mike]

I don't know man, if we don't believe in what others say about thenselves, Icould just as well call everything you say is wring and conclude you are a magical rainbow unicorn that farts cookies.

But I guess I prefare believing in statements that are backed by evidence and call them obectively proven.

You can google docking computer hubts and eventually find videos on youtube that show exactly this. While you can question the motives behind them videos, you can not really deny the fact that a ganker has blown up multiple ships that had a docking computer installed.
I will not go on the level of deep fake theories and the like, that exceeds a game like this one.

Yeah it’s a bit of confirmation bias though, right? If the gankers target ships with docking computers, then there will be a larger amount of videos with them blowing up ships with ADCs. Now you point to the videos claiming them to be proof that people who use ADCs are bad at the game. Evidence does not work like that.

On a base level, I reject you notion that use of ADCs make a person bad. To me, it’s akin to saying that drivers that use cruise control are bad. Whereas, in my opinion (or absolute truth as you might say) it makes sense to automate something so simple and easy for the sake of convenience. Sometimes I just don’t want to deal with docking, and it even gives me some Expanse vibes because in that series the stations always bring the ship in on final approach.

Feel free to keep blowing people up for dumb reasons though.

 

[777Driver]

I do not berate or judge anyone.

Definitely not talking about you mate, you are one of the nicest people on this forum.

 

[NeilF]

but SC zero throttle for FSS is pretty obvious.

You would need to be doing a lot of tracking in FSS if people were flying and it would become impossible to track fast enough for moons and things once zoomed in a couple of factors, if the game doesn't compensate or just ignore and fabricate movement in the FSS entirely. There is precedent for that such as when your ship locks on to a target to drop to, so it is possible. But it still has to be written. Having players just zero their throttle was probably just simpler.

As it is, sometimes when you're using FSS, the game seems to get confused about how to orientate the sphere map and so you get that weird twirling FSS thing. Cause as you move, the sphere must rotate, if you move the right way and then something wants to move in a direction that takes it off the edge, then the sphere must be regenerated or rotate a lot. I'm assuming this is what's going on. It's down to how they did it but the fact that you moving is a nono makes me think it's related to how they turn a 3d space into 2d space for FSS.

Can't agree... Lock the positions of all bodies etc to where you were at the time of entering into the scanner (ie: that's where the scan/data was taken/collected).

So it behaves exactly like it does now, albeit you can be travelling in a direction, being flown by a CMDR (in multicrew), or the SuperCruise Assistant be taking you someone.

The handwavium required for this then results in a much better gameplay exerience. ie: You can continue scanning a system while flying towards a body you wish to surface scan. ie: Make far more use of your valuable time! And explorers will be using the SCA!

 

[askavir]

Let's put it this way, since Elite-Dangerous is a sci-fi simulator - IF we were already on Space Age, and companies went on making spaceships, What would be the probability of someone programming a ship's computer to automatically navigate an ENTIRE plotted route, and thus ensure navigation safety, instead of leaving it in the hands of a faulty Human?
This kind of "manual flight" was forced upon players by the Devs, and even if the Super-cruise assist is a small help, it shouldn't be so.
The game should have an auto navigation system, yes, for those that don't want to do it manually. Because it's safer, because it's the obvious choice any ship-making company would put on expensive ships.
Let's face it. One day, all cars will be forced into auto-drive, and insurance companies will void contracts if an accident happens because of a pilot changing drive to "manual".
That is the future- Automation. Make machines deal with repetitive tasks, and let Humans soar to inspiration and creativity.

Of course, but games simulating those would be extremely boring, imagine watching your car do the entire race by itself in Forza Motorsport 2043...

 

[Troopi]

Of course, but games simulating those would be extremely boring, imagine watching your car do the entire race by itself in Forza Motorsport 2043...

You are seeing the wrong picture. You are watching the "race" picture, and not everything in the game is a race.
Imagine you as a truck driver that must carry a container from China to Spain. Many days of journey, driving a truck, many times at night in long and empty auto-routes. Wouldn't you welcome an AI drive assist for you to do something else on the "boring" parts of the journey? Maybe let it drive while you sleep, so you don't have to loose 5 hours of your journey for a rest stop? In the end, without needing high speeds and reckless maneuvers, you would reach your destination sooner, and in a healthier condition. And your truck would thank you for not pushing it to the limits.

 

[askavir]

You are seeing the wrong picture. You are watching the "race" picture, and not everything in the game is a race.
Imagine you as a truck driver that must carry a container from China to Spain. Many days of journey, driving a truck, many times at night in long and empty auto-routes. Wouldn't you welcome an AI drive assist for you to do something else on the "boring" parts of the journey? Maybe let it drive while you sleep, so you don't have to loose 5 hours of your journey for a rest stop? In the end, without needing high speeds and reckless maneuvers, you would reach your destination sooner, and in a healthier condition. And your truck would thank you for not pushing it to the limits.

Absolutely, but in that case why would I even be in that truck in the first place? If the truck can drive itself from China to Spain, what is the point in having a driver at all?

I have no doubt automation will replace many drivers / pilots etc. It makes sense. My only point is that automation won't make for much entertaining games. After all we play games to do something (or more exactly pretend to do something), not watch it being done.

That being said, I have no qualms with partial automation, I'd rather use supercruise assist and browse the web, than stare at the distance countdown. But if the ship would fly hands-off for the entire journey, from pad to pad, and all that's left for me is ocasionally clicking some station menu buttons, then I'd rather play something else.

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

I toy with the idea of SC assist so I can not play this game properly when I'm not playing it

as for docking computer, aren't landings supposed to be the fun part? even in this simplified flight system. what do you gain by taking them away?

but I also wanna say that when space legs comes in I hope your SLF pilots can just take over for you

SCA is useful for the speed drop thing. ACD I sometimes use for my very grindy BGS manipulation trips in large ships. It allows me to plan my next move while my Type-9 lumbers towards the docking bay.

Docking is fun, its not all the fun but it is one of the more engaging part of the game. That said, I use docking computers for mission running, hand over docking/undock to the (A)DC and go to missions --> Gal map --> system map --> destination starport --> plot route, while the docking computer negotiates the mailslot. If I don't have a multidrop milkrun with next destinations to fly to, such as coming back from an assassination mission, I'll put the ship on the pad FAoff. IF SCA were better - as in 100% throttle until deceleration time, I'd do my route planning in SCA.

I'll bring up my issue with SCA, and seemingly too many of FD's designs in general. They just don't join up and combine mechanics!

So they added Multicrew. They redeveloped the Discovery Scanner. Then they added the ADS, seemingly with the previous two no where in mind:-
1) A CMDR cannot fly around a system, while a multicrew used the discovery scanner. Instead your ship has to be stationary. WHY?
2) Likewise, you can't use the new SCA to travel to a destination (a planet you want to scan), while using the Discovery Scanner. WHY?

Why needless not offer gameplay function and choice and variety?

Can't agree... Lock the positions of all bodies etc to where you were at the time of entering into the scanner (ie: that's where the scan/data was taken/collected).

So it behaves exactly like it does now, albeit you can be travelling in a direction, being flown by a CMDR (in multicrew), or the SuperCruise Assistant be taking you someone.

The handwavium required for this then results in a much better gameplay exerience. ie: You can continue scanning a system while flying towards a body you wish to surface scan. ie: Make far more use of your valuable time! And explorers will be using the SCA!

The FSS at 0% throttle pretty much stops me using it, there is no reason the FSS couldn't let you interact with a data snapshot taken at the point you scanned/honked the system to decode the signalsources after the event, while enroute to something else. And that is a shame that it is like that, deincentivised as it is a nice addition to the game, and it shows that a lot of work went into it.

Fot those who haven't got the hang of Supercruise Assist yet:

You activate it when already in supercruise, find your destination in your nav panel and select it. At the bottom of the popup box, next to the Lock/Unlock button, is the SA toggle. When selected, it keeps you pointed exactly at your destination if you're already almost pointed at it (then you should centre your controller), and drops you out of supercruise at the appropriate time (or puts you into "orbit" around a planet). It also gives you an option to zero the throttle on emerging from a hyperjump (toggle in your Ship menu).

It has two throttle modes, Automatic and Manual (in the Ship menu). Each has its uses. Automatic overrides your throttle, setting it to 75%: this lets you zero your throttle, so that when you arrive at a station and drop out of supercruise, you will stop (otherwise you tend to fly into the side of the station).

Manual is probably more useful. You can use SA to aim yourself precisely at your destination, then accelerate to 100% throttle: this temporarily disables Supercruise Assist. Keep going until you are 7 seconds away, then drop back to 75% throttle to re-engage SA. If approaching an orbiting station or beacon (or USS etc, but not a planet), approach as normal until you can see that you have a clear run to the target and you're about 20ls away, then go back to 100% throttle and accelerate until the countdown reaches 4 seconds, thn drop back to 75% throttle. You will come screaming in at high speed, but SA will (hopefully) drop you out in time: there are some stations that move so fast that you are likely to miss (e.g. Jacques). This can greatly speed up your final approach. It also sometimes flies you through the staion, dropping you out just beyond it!

It sounds like SA optimisation is more work than manually decelerating?

New cmdrs should be expected to complete 25 manual exits and dockings before they are allowed to buy a DC. Along with this they should also be exempt from any loitering punishments for those first 25 attempts. Starting out with a DC is a bit like putting a non-driver in a self-driving Tesla. Great until it breaks and manual control is needed.

This might help dispense with the idea that some have that anyone who uses a DC is incompetent and must be killed.

I beleive the reckoning is that CMDR's will get to see the computerised docking to let them see the the lines and acceleration / deceleration points so they what to aim for. Sure, its handholdy as , but I don't care, their more gentle modern learning curve takes no skin off my nose.

Of course, but games simulating those would be extremely boring, imagine watching your car do the entire race by itself in Forza Motorsport 2043...

OR in Grand Turismo 4 b-spec #yawntastic

 

[Nadreck]

Hmmm. If I choose to take warships into Open, I will ignore ships with docking computers and/or supercruise assist, and attack any carrying size 1 HRP's or similar.

Those things shouldn't exist, and I'd do my best to remove them from existence.

Seems fair.

 

[Armyofducks]

I use the ADC when hauling stuff about. Got board of hitting my chin on the slot. And SA is great when exploring and you've got a 15 minute run out to ELW. Bang on assist and make a brew

 

[Darkfyre99]

I agree that multicrew currently is in a bad way, but SC zero throttle for FSS is pretty obvious.

You would need to be doing a lot of tracking in FSS if people were flying and it would become impossible to track fast enough for moons and things once zoomed in a couple of factors, if the game doesn't compensate or just ignore and fabricate movement in the FSS entirely. There is precedent for that such as when your ship locks on to a target to drop to, so it is possible. But it still has to be written. Having players just zero their throttle was probably just simpler.

As it is, sometimes when you're using FSS, the game seems to get confused about how to orientate the sphere map and so you get that weird twirling FSS thing. Cause as you move, the sphere must rotate, if you move the right way and then something wants to move in a direction that takes it off the edge, then the sphere must be regenerated or rotate a lot. I'm assuming this is what's going on. It's down to how they did it but the fact that you moving is a nono makes me think it's related to how they turn a 3d space into 2d space for FSS.

Speaking personally, the FSS is quite usable while in the move. I have resolved distant bodies in the FSS while deliberately overshooting, so I can extend the “braking period” after throttling down. It’s no more difficult than hitting a moving target with beam lasers. If you can do that, you can also resolve bodies while in the move.

The only “problem” with using the FSS while on the move is when you change spheres of influence. It does strange things to your view in the FSS when that happens. Speaking personally, the only places I’m likely to use the FSS on the move is interplanetary space, so that should rarely be a problem. Only reason why I bother with using the FSS while on the “move,” limited though that window may be, is because I really hate “dead time,”

 

[Troopi]

That being said, I have no qualms with partial automation, I'd rather use supercruise assist and browse the web, than stare at the distance countdown. But if the ship would fly hands-off for the entire journey, from pad to pad, and all that's left for me is ocasionally clicking some station menu buttons, then I'd rather play something else.

And that's precisely the point. You COULD have the choice. Press auto for 60 jumps to reach a Nebula, and do your "homework" while at it, or spend all that time glued to the screen and Joystick, until your brain dumbs down to fish level.
If you felt like it, you would do it manually for a while, and whenever you wanted, you would go auto. Having the choice makes all the difference.