Lmao
World disagrees with op...
I doubt that the community team won that award because of Elite Dangerous, the big push in 2018 was JWE.
Why are Fdev so bad at community management?
- Thread starter Lordxenu
- Start date
I doubt that the community team won that award because of Elite Dangerous, the big push in 2018 was JWE.
I agree wholeheartedly with the OP.
Fdev's communication is lacking on all sides imho.
The non consistent hyping of things to come, the overall involvement with the community, reacting to bugs being reported, which they don't do at all anymore now that the new bug reporting system is in place, etc.
They could learn a lesson or eight from Little Green Men (LGM) the developer of the Starpoint Gemini Series.
They don't have a forum because they're just a small team with only one CM iirc but they're very actively engaged with their player base on discord.
They're working on their next iteration atm and post screenshots and teasers all the time.
When you report a bug they reply and actually do something about it.
It's realy a big breather when communicating with them because you know they don't only read what you post but reply accordingly.
The only good department Fdev has regarding communication is their support team imho.
The rest is either severely lacking, trolling or not at all there.
Fdev's communication is lacking on all sides imho.
The non consistent hyping of things to come, the overall involvement with the community, reacting to bugs being reported, which they don't do at all anymore now that the new bug reporting system is in place, etc.
They could learn a lesson or eight from Little Green Men (LGM) the developer of the Starpoint Gemini Series.
They don't have a forum because they're just a small team with only one CM iirc but they're very actively engaged with their player base on discord.
They're working on their next iteration atm and post screenshots and teasers all the time.
When you report a bug they reply and actually do something about it.
It's realy a big breather when communicating with them because you know they don't only read what you post but reply accordingly.
The only good department Fdev has regarding communication is their support team imho.
The rest is either severely lacking, trolling or not at all there.
I doubt you would of said the same thing if they had kept the apple platform alive
[pokes cooke with stick]
Oh, can only speak for myself by the way, I got no complaints.
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To be fair, the streams and stuff are really good but content wise, FDev has learned to speak alot and say nothign at all. The community interaction is nice, the content they bring us however, is not ... alas, there is nothing they bring us. They pass time and this is why I don't watch the streams or read the newsletters anymore because, there are simply no news. I know all the information beforehand.
What most of us are looking for is some kind of roadmap or any relevant information regarding Elite but since nothing has been presented, well, ugh. For me this is a reason to not play the game. Since the removal of CGs I have no reason to log on. There is no PvP, nothing to prepare for since nothing is on its way that we know how to prepare for. There are no events or otherwise interesting things to come. Elite could be treated as STar Citizen now. Nice to try out but better wait for the real thing to drop and do something else in the meantime.
What most of us are looking for is some kind of roadmap or any relevant information regarding Elite but since nothing has been presented, well, ugh. For me this is a reason to not play the game. Since the removal of CGs I have no reason to log on. There is no PvP, nothing to prepare for since nothing is on its way that we know how to prepare for. There are no events or otherwise interesting things to come. Elite could be treated as STar Citizen now. Nice to try out but better wait for the real thing to drop and do something else in the meantime.
The biggest update in ED life will drop in more or less 16 months...they are working on it in full production for nearly 1 year...they could tell us a lot without getting into the details...at this stage they probably know pretty much where they are heading and what will be in there. They could share screenshots, concept art, small videos, get us informed about the dev process.
Other companies are doing it. It's possible to give just enough information to keep the hype without over-promising.
People would talk more about ED & it would be free publicity.
I hear what you are saying but, in truth, "professional communicators" are no better when they have nothing to report. One only has to watch Parliament live over the past few weeks to realise this
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
Also, 100% of it is tied to marketing on releases. Quarterly and Yearly. This is a business after all.
Its no secret Blizzard and many other companies do this as well.
I can say Fdev is a little more secretive than other companies though. I dont know if thats a good thing or a bad thing.
There is a fine line between waiting to generate hype and ing a buncha people off.
On the flipside, they cant just tell us everything due to competition from other developers. Looking at you NMS Beyond LMAO. Or not being able to deliver what they would like to.
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@Lordxenu
First, off welcome to warframe!. Secondly, the warframe wiki is very helpful, and I would suggest you take a look at it.
Now, lets clarify a few things shall we ?(warning:this is a long post)
Warframe and Elite Dangerous are two different game genres. Warframe is a free to play looter-shooter game. However, Elite Dangerous is a space simulator game. Naturally, both games use different revenue generating models.
Warframe is free to play , and as a result they have to keep constantly pumping out new frames, and gear to keep the studio online and the devs paid. Communicating with the community is essential for DE, because DE has a good idea of what the community wants (or doesn't want). Thus allowing them to tailor frames/weapons to be effective in a wide range of playstyles. Furthermore, taking feedback on old mechanics( or other things),and improving said things creates a positive relationship between DE and their fanbase. Now you may ask why the **** is this is important for DE? Well, the positive relationship DE has with the warframe fanbase from constantly communicating with the players, gives players the impression that DE cares just as much about warframe as they do. As a result, players willingly open their wallets and pay for things like platinum,prime access,etc.They usually do this to "support the devs".
On the other hand you have Elite Dangerous,which at its base is a space simulator game(with good screenshots too). As compared to Warframe, Elite Dangerous is a paid game. I believe it uses the game as a service model, which is essentially the base game+ monetized new content updates coming out every so often. Now, with this model Frontier does not need to keep constantly pumping new content and new ships out, because it is not a free to play game(Warframe always has a steady stream of new stuff to do).However, they have a cosmetics cash shop for Elite, which(probably) makes them a decent amount of money. Thus, Frontier can put out bigger content updates(some monetized, and some free) albeit at a slower rate. However, with bigger content updates there is a wider scope of things to consider that could possibly be put in. If they promise something early on, and are not able to deliver it;people are naturally going to be mad. Fleet carriers, comes to mind(they were promised in Q4 of Beyond, but we still don't have them yet). So, from Fdev's point of view, it is probably better to say nothing until they know exactly what will come in a new content update.In addition, sometimes things get pulled because of bugs/ other issues. If some new content does get pulled due to bugs, as stated earlier, people will get mad that Frontier didn't deliver what they promised(and rightfully so).
(Almost done, bear with me)
However, this does not mean the lack of communication from Frontier in matters regarding Elite Dangerous is acceptable. It is not acceptable, especially since there are plenty of companies that do far more communication then frontier does. The community announcement on the March 3rd was an example of this. This is because, it essentially told us: we are getting news CG(s) a rework of the new player experience, and smaller free content updates every 3-4 months. The BGS was changed too as well. Furthermore, later on we also received news that CG(s) were beings stopped, as they started working on dev lead CG(s). Have we had any announcements after that? As far as I know, we have not. I believe if Frontier had some sort of livestream where they said "Hey we are working on X thing,can we get some community feedback to see what could be improved/changed with X thing", that would help build more confidence in Frontier,and possibly give Elite Dangerous more publicity.
First, off welcome to warframe!. Secondly, the warframe wiki is very helpful, and I would suggest you take a look at it.
Now, lets clarify a few things shall we ?(warning:this is a long post)
Warframe and Elite Dangerous are two different game genres. Warframe is a free to play looter-shooter game. However, Elite Dangerous is a space simulator game. Naturally, both games use different revenue generating models.
Warframe is free to play , and as a result they have to keep constantly pumping out new frames, and gear to keep the studio online and the devs paid. Communicating with the community is essential for DE, because DE has a good idea of what the community wants (or doesn't want). Thus allowing them to tailor frames/weapons to be effective in a wide range of playstyles. Furthermore, taking feedback on old mechanics( or other things),and improving said things creates a positive relationship between DE and their fanbase. Now you may ask why the **** is this is important for DE? Well, the positive relationship DE has with the warframe fanbase from constantly communicating with the players, gives players the impression that DE cares just as much about warframe as they do. As a result, players willingly open their wallets and pay for things like platinum,prime access,etc.They usually do this to "support the devs".
On the other hand you have Elite Dangerous,which at its base is a space simulator game(with good screenshots too). As compared to Warframe, Elite Dangerous is a paid game. I believe it uses the game as a service model, which is essentially the base game+ monetized new content updates coming out every so often. Now, with this model Frontier does not need to keep constantly pumping new content and new ships out, because it is not a free to play game(Warframe always has a steady stream of new stuff to do).However, they have a cosmetics cash shop for Elite, which(probably) makes them a decent amount of money. Thus, Frontier can put out bigger content updates(some monetized, and some free) albeit at a slower rate. However, with bigger content updates there is a wider scope of things to consider that could possibly be put in. If they promise something early on, and are not able to deliver it;people are naturally going to be mad. Fleet carriers, comes to mind(they were promised in Q4 of Beyond, but we still don't have them yet). So, from Fdev's point of view, it is probably better to say nothing until they know exactly what will come in a new content update.In addition, sometimes things get pulled because of bugs/ other issues. If some new content does get pulled due to bugs, as stated earlier, people will get mad that Frontier didn't deliver what they promised(and rightfully so).
(Almost done, bear with me)
However, this does not mean the lack of communication from Frontier in matters regarding Elite Dangerous is acceptable. It is not acceptable, especially since there are plenty of companies that do far more communication then frontier does. The community announcement on the March 3rd was an example of this. This is because, it essentially told us: we are getting news CG(s) a rework of the new player experience, and smaller free content updates every 3-4 months. The BGS was changed too as well. Furthermore, later on we also received news that CG(s) were beings stopped, as they started working on dev lead CG(s). Have we had any announcements after that? As far as I know, we have not. I believe if Frontier had some sort of livestream where they said "Hey we are working on X thing,can we get some community feedback to see what could be improved/changed with X thing", that would help build more confidence in Frontier,and possibly give Elite Dangerous more publicity.
Really, I thought you were speaking for the world?I doubt you would of said the same thing if they had kept the apple platform alive
[pokes cooke with stick]
Oh, can only speak for myself by the way, I got no complaints.
What would they gain from it, 16 months in advance as you said? There is no product to sell now or in a future near enough that they could leverage that hype for sales. Giving away things too early just dillutes the hype.
They don't need to keep the community all that engaged with the game in the meantime other than to generate some paintjob sales, but if the 2020 expansion is big enough people will come back and buy it once Frontier makes a big noise about it in the media. And they do expect that expansion to be big and bring in fresh new blood, hence the need to improve the new player experience.
I really don't care that much. It would be nice for them to show us more or engage with us more then what they already do, but it doesn't bother me. It's just they way it is. It's not like the world is coming to an end.
Frontier is so incredibly lucky to have such a passionate community. The community holds its own conventions/meet-ups, organizes huge in-game events like DW or show a dedication that's bordering insanity (hi there, Fuel Rats ).
And it feels like Frontier is letting this all go to waste. Stuff like the upcoming developer lead events is something that should have been ongoing for years now. Why does the community have to do all the heavy lifting? I guess 99% of the good press Elite has been getting was about something the community's done.
The relationship between Frontier and the community is definitely very one-sided. Every once in a while (or rather every other year) we get a post where they tell us how much they love this community and that they'll change things and engage with us more in the future.
And then we sit here with our rose tinted glasses, reading the new Important Update post for the tenth time (because that's how desperate we are) and say to ourselves "See, they really appreciate us and they said they'll change and things will be better from now on. I'm sure this time they totally mean it!"
).And it feels like Frontier is letting this all go to waste. Stuff like the upcoming developer lead events is something that should have been ongoing for years now. Why does the community have to do all the heavy lifting? I guess 99% of the good press Elite has been getting was about something the community's done.
The relationship between Frontier and the community is definitely very one-sided. Every once in a while (or rather every other year) we get a post where they tell us how much they love this community and that they'll change things and engage with us more in the future.
And then we sit here with our rose tinted glasses, reading the new Important Update post for the tenth time (because that's how desperate we are) and say to ourselves "See, they really appreciate us and they said they'll change and things will be better from now on. I'm sure this time they totally mean it!"
Oddly enough giving away information on Elite Dangerous before there was a product to sell didn't diminish the hype, it built it.
☄Thargoids invading .... now within one jump of Shinrata .... Sol under threat .... game is doomed and you think the world is not coming to an end?
They keep throwing new paintjobs at us every week. I'd like to know how well they've been selling lately.
Well that's not a problem for Frontier, they never reveal a thingThere can't be hype if you reveal too much.
Well that's not a problem for Frontier, they never reveal a thing
Yep, that's actually the point.
Best example of lack of communication, FD in one of the betas; We're super excited, we made changes to the way the BGS works, let us know if you find bugs!
Users: ?
FD: ...
Users:??
FD: Well beta over, here's the exciting patch notes, enjoy the new exciting BGS!!
Users: Hey, the BGS doesn't work at all now, we don't know why, we only know the opposite outcome is happening, and our faction is screwed.
My suggestion is to not sweat it, it's top down, and ain't gonna change.
Users: ?
FD: ...
Users:??
FD: Well beta over, here's the exciting patch notes, enjoy the new exciting BGS!!
Users: Hey, the BGS doesn't work at all now, we don't know why, we only know the opposite outcome is happening, and our faction is screwed.
My suggestion is to not sweat it, it's top down, and ain't gonna change.
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That won't solve it, as they won't have access to any useful information and would be reduced to either vainly attempting to placate us with pleasantries at worst or just another boring gatekeeper middleman that we have to at best. If anything, that's part of the whole issue with FD's current communication style, it's all extremely sanitised and filtered down to the point where it's mostly meaningless.
Instead, they should train a couple of their active developers for community management and engagement and set aside a few hours for each of them to deal with us. Whether that's by discussing important balance/design issues on the forums, to debating technical aspects and limitations "under the hood" with regards to how the game is coded or simply maintaining a weekly dev blog. When important development decisions are actually explained and discussed by those who actually understand them, rather than someone simply paid to give a marketing spiel, then we get access to much more relevant and useful information.
People tend to dislike what they can't understand, and FD's currently philosophy leads to the entire game being a black box of design; even things that we analyse and understand how they operate the way they do, we still have no idea why they are designed to operate in those ways or how anyone would ever consider it to be a good way for them to work. There might be valid reasons or mechanics we have missed or misunderstood, but ultimately we are left scratching our heads at many of the game's design decisions.