Why are players treated differently then NPCs?

[SteveLaw]

now, to mix it up a bit, it would be nice to sometimes see AI who are also in the pilots federation, and equally I would like it if we could get booted out from it as well if our actions warranted it, and then have to work at getting back in (or we choose to fly without insurance, and other perks associated with it).

That's an interesting thought though.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Then why do NPCs have a Pilot's Federation rank?

using my earlier analogy, you can be a solider or a capo in the Mafia without being a made man AFAIK (I am not a member so my info only comes from American TV and the internet, so may be wrong )

 

[SteveLaw]

Then why do NPCs have a Pilot's Federation rank?

I don't know. Why do NPCs have a rank? They aren't CMDRs though. I didn't design it, I'm just relaying what I heard and the CMDR/NPC part makes sense that they are differentiated in game. I could could up with a reason - they are tagged with a rank because the PF tracks all pilots but only members are given the perks (such as insurance, etc.)

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

It's not out-of-game information if there is a reason for it to be in-game information. To me this is like complaining that it's wrong that all players play soldiers in COD because some of them should play innocent bystanders. Can you play as a street cleaner in GTA?

But there is no in-game reason. None whatsoever. If it was "every commander who has reached the level of 'Master'", or similar, then that would be an in-game reason, and it would be fine.

 

[SteveLaw]

But there is no in-game reason. None whatsoever. If it was "every commander who has reached the level of 'Master'", or similar, then that would be an in-game reason, and it would be fine.

They joined the Pilot's Federation. They filled in all the forms right before you first created your character. Really? That's the premise of the game. They had a life before we took them over.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

They joined the Pilot's Federation. They filled in all the forms right before you first created your character. Really? That's the premise of the game. They had a life before we took them over.

Which makes it not an in-game thing, but an out of game thing. I see we are not going to resolve this since all you do is agree with me that this is not in-game, but continue to call it in-game.

 

[SteveLaw]

Which makes it not an in-game thing, but an out of game thing. I see we are not going to resolve this since all you do is agree with me that this is not in-game, but continue to call it in-game.

No it doesn't. It happened in the game before you joined it. You are just nit-picking for no real reason. Join a few dots and read between a few lines.

 

[JeffRyan]

If the developers are trying to create an immersive experience of being a starship commander, why do we need the immersion breaking feature of representing NPC and Players differently in the game world? It serves no benefit what so ever to the majority of players but does serve to benefit one small subset of players, the PKers. Now if Elite was designed primarily as a PvP game with low death penalty costs, this would make sense, but it was not; it was designed as a multi-player game with allowed PvP.

This is one of the primary reasons why open play is just a big draw for PK focused players and why many of us why welcome the risk of PvP choose to instead just avoid open play. We accept that we could become the victim of a bit of random violence, but do not want to fly around space with huge targets on or backs. Please don't get me wrong, in no way do I want to restrict the chosen play styles for those who with to just watch the world burn. That is entirely their choice. I just don't want to stand out. Its no different then forcing any group of people in the real world to openly display their differences, thus making them easy targets for those wishing to do them harm.

The solution to this inequality could be resolved in three steps, two of which should have a low dev cost. Step one would be to replace the open icon representing players with the closed icons of NPCs. Step two would be to either remove CMDR form player pilot names or add it to NPC pilot names. After All we are all part of the same Pilots Federation. The final step would be to increase NPC traffic around stations. An additional step which would have a higher dev cost would be to add all local NPCs to the local comms screen.

It would still be possible for a player to tell the difference between an NPC and Player by bringing up the comm screen and looking at the interaction options as we can't currently open comms with NPC but it would now require a little effort to single out players from NPCs. This in itself would reduce the risk of random or targeted aggression that players face in Open Play enough, to bring many players currently playing in Private Groups or Solo, back to Open Play. I don't have a problem running a blockade to bring goods to market, but I do want even odds, just like every other in game entity.

One of the heaviest criticisms facing Elite: Dangerous is that it doesn't feel like you're playing with other people enough. Making PCs indistinguishable from NPCs would give some serious legitimacy to those criticisms.

There's an 'in-game' reason as well. PCs are all members of the Pilots Federation. NPCs are not.

PS. As to why they have a ranking, they're all combat rankings, perhaps you don't need to be a member of the PF for your kills to be tracked. It works for me and making them indistinct would only make a game that more than a few people think lacks the right to be called an MMO (I disagree with them) have that accusation be a little more correct. All the indistinction will do is keep people apart not bring them together.

 

[Yomamas Fett]

Open was fine before Wings, PvP and the rarer PvPP felt good.

Wings destroyed this PvPPPP becoming the norm in populated areas, so pilots who have no interest in guilds etc have left Open to the cowardly Wings of PKers.

If PC wings were a seperate mode, like a massive Private group then Open would be viable again.


Wings turned Open into a trolls paradise, and so Open is abandoned. Very few, if any players find 4on1 to be fun, nobody likes being reduced to a pinata.

 

[Deathwatch]

Open was fine before Wings, PvP and the rarer PvPP felt good.

Wings destroyed this PvPPPP becoming the norm in populated areas, so pilots who have no interest in guilds etc have left Open to the cowardly Wings of PKers.

If PC wings were a seperate mode, like a massive Private group then Open would be viable again.


Wings turned Open into a trolls paradise, and so Open is abandoned. Very few, if any players find 4on1 to be fun, nobody likes being reduced to a pinata.

I think the ability to hire NPC's and also to properly be able to pay players would help for example hiring escorts etc.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

No it doesn't. It happened in the game before you joined it. You are just nit-picking for no real reason. Join a few dots and read between a few lines.

Last response. No, you are the nitpicker. This is self-evidently out of game information with no in game reason.

 

[SteveLaw]

Last response. No, you are the nitpicker. This is self-evidently out of game information with no in game reason.

If you say so.

 

[Yomamas Fett]

I think the ability to hire NPC's and also to properly be able to pay players would help for example hiring escorts etc.

Maybe, if that gets implimented, till then I'll be watching developments from Mobius Group, while missing the PvP. Most new players would just change games if they played in open these days.

 

[Joe Spivey]

I quit the Pilot's Federation. Can I have a solid colour on the display now please?

 

[ianw]

IIRC this is one of the few topics where people on both sides of PVP v PVE divide often wanted the same thing for entirely different reasons based on how they thought it would pan out.

 

[SteveLaw]

I quit the Pilot's Federation. Can I have a solid colour on the display now please?

That's going to be added in 1.8

 

[Cody]

PCs are all members of the Pilots Federation. NPCs are not.

This is something that is just wrong - but it's an old discussion, and nothing is getting changed now!

 

[Joe Spivey]

That's going to be added in 1.8

But you see what I'm saying? The Pilot's Federation is only an in game acknowledgement of an out of game fact. It is a mechanic that allows for the recognition of PCs over NPCs. The terms PF and PC are as interchangeable as NPF and NPC. Therefore we are back at the same argument and the in game definition of PF (as some magical organisation we all belong to) is by and large irrelevent.

 

[Quineloe]

This can easily be argued the opposite way. If the design idea is that players would only rarely attack other players (which it was) then we would need to know which are players and which are NPCs in order to avoid attacking players.

except the exact opposite is reality. Player pirates ignore NPCs, because they never give up cargo willingly, rarely carry something worth stealing and the threat of death does not work on them.

 

[SteveLaw]

except the exact opposite is reality. Player pirates ignore NPCs, because they never give up cargo willingly, rarely carry something worth stealing and the threat of death does not work on them.

That's a flaw in the implementation not the premise.