I'm not sure what the numbers are. Neither do you. But yes, I'd rather Open 'felt' like Open rather than Solo where I have no idea if I'm playing with other people or not. We've had this discussion before you and I.
Why are players treated differently then NPCs?
- Thread starter GimpstersGhost
- Start date
I'm not sure what the numbers are. Neither do you. But yes, I'd rather Open 'felt' like Open rather than Solo where I have no idea if I'm playing with other people or not. We've had this discussion before you and I.
Of course. Much more secure. The griefers will not have their targets pointed out to them.
My reasons have NOTHING to do with PvP. I don't do it.
Ranks (combat, trade, exploration) are maintained by the Pilot's Federation, so it seems that every pilot is a member of the Pilot's Federation. I believe they are the ones who standardized starship regulations across every faction and therefore the reason you can sail anywhere you want without getting hassled over your identity, different regs, etc.
ED wiki said:
Take that to mean only players if you wish, but it reads to me like all pilots.
Furthermore:
Alioth wiki said:
Last edited:
The whole point of being an MMO is you play with other people. When you can't distinguish them from NPCs I fail to see any point in this game being an MMO and having all the hassle of going MMO (peer to peer, speed limits etc etc) if you can't tell the game is one.
That's pretty much my reasoning.
That's pretty much my reasoning.
While I support the idea I must disagree that players would not be able to ID humans in the game. They most certainly could. For starters; names. I use the same name here as I do in-game. One look at my name & you could tell that it wasn't a NPC even if you never went to the forums. Also you could tell by how they fly or how they fight, their behavior & all that yadda yadda. It will not be difficult for players to determine who is & who is not a NPC or a player. Again I still support the idea of removing the CMDR tag, just don't kid yourselves that it will 100% hide players from other players because it won't
As previously mentioned, there will be ways to tell - comms options and the like that have to still be there for functionality, the way the target flies, non-standard module loadouts etc. The predators will learn those 'tells' while the casual players generally won't. It will do little to stop players from being attacked, whilst robbing them of the ability to realise who's attacking them.
Ultimately, players are fundamentally different from NPCs. We play differently, interact differently, and have actual motivations. We can be negotiated with, asked for advice or assistance, threatened or attacked without eliciting a standard scripted response.
We're never going to be the same as the NPCs, and it is trying to homogenise us with them, not keeping us distinct, that presents the false and unimmersive universe.
Indeed we have. And it will presumably go round in circles again if we carry on. FWIW, I do genuinely believe that you feel this is for the good of the game - most others who insist on the status quo seemed to me to have trouble hiding their wish to be able to easily pick out their targets. I just believe you are wrong. The last few months has strengthened my belief that always showing PCs differently is the wrong thing to do.
At least the transponder would allow both points of view to co-exist in the same mode. If only FD had done the testing in the beta that they said they would.
FWIW, I, too, will claim that I think my view is for the good of the game. It is certainly not for personal gain. I have always played in open - it seems to me to be 'cheating' to hide in solo - but play largely as an explorer, so rarely see PCs. In my rare forays into 'civilisation' I have been attacked 4 or 5 times. Once by a real pirate who did the stand and deliver thing. The other times by vastly superior ships that did not bother to try to communicate and just opened fire. I can understand why many do run away and hide.
Last edited:
I don't doubt that that is your opinion, but it does not make it a universal fact. I will just as strongly argue that being told which ships are PCs and which are NPCs breaks immersion completely. And I would be right - from my perspective. There are no absolutes here - different people want different things. Which is why insisting on one black or white way of operating is wrong. Let people choose.
Of course you will be able to tell. But not immediately - which is the point. If the ganker has 6 ships to choose from, with no immediate means to pick one out, he is less likely to find a PC to gank. My preference, of course, is that FD would ban them, but they have made it clear they are not going to. I want to play by making in-game decision for in game reasons. I have no problem being targeted by a player playing a pirate who has determined that I am a juicy target with insufficient defences - that would be my fault. I have every problem being preferentially targeted just because I am a player.
Funnily enough someone else, can't remember who, perhaps Robert (I'm sure he'll let me know if it wasn't him) said the opposite that having seen the game in action they've changed their minds.
Why are players treated differently then NPCs?
While their is seldom a single reason for any action, I think one of the reasons could be:
Because NPC's don't come on the forums to make posts about who just lit them up just for no good reason.
I am of the firm belief that their are those who do search these forums just to hear about what they just did. Amazing how some people can place their personal value on how many people talk about them.
Doesn't matter if it's fame or notoriety, as long as its about them, its all good,,,,,,,,,,
While their is seldom a single reason for any action, I think one of the reasons could be:
Because NPC's don't come on the forums to make posts about who just lit them up just for no good reason.
I am of the firm belief that their are those who do search these forums just to hear about what they just did. Amazing how some people can place their personal value on how many people talk about them.
Doesn't matter if it's fame or notoriety, as long as its about them, its all good,,,,,,,,,,
Last edited:
![[VR] Shadowman](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/16/16608.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
I can't think of one multiplayer game, where players are hidden from each other. Perhaps we should consider why...
ED promotes itself as being multiplayer, so why would you think it would be a good idea to make it appear as if you're completely alone? You may as well just go and play solo/drop the multiplayer aspect completely.
If anything, I'd suggest an option that allows you to toggle "view all contacts as NPCs" on or off. That would appease the immersion crowd on both sides, but I think some people want to control everyone else's game and not just their own.
ED promotes itself as being multiplayer, so why would you think it would be a good idea to make it appear as if you're completely alone? You may as well just go and play solo/drop the multiplayer aspect completely.
If anything, I'd suggest an option that allows you to toggle "view all contacts as NPCs" on or off. That would appease the immersion crowd on both sides, but I think some people want to control everyone else's game and not just their own.
I just believe too many sacrifices were made to make this a multiplayer (offline anyone?) for it to seem like it isn't is a little silly. And would pretty much be suicide. It's pretty much the only discussion on these here forums where I felt that if one road was taken (making NPCs indistinguishable from PCs) it would really be the nail in the coffin.
I actually get the other side and can even appreciate the idea aesthetically, but practically I really can't back the idea of either completely hidden or the transponder (which over time would lead to everyone hiding I think and would end up being the same).
- - - Updated - - -
Why are players treated differently then NPCs?
While their is seldom a single reason for any action, I think one of the reasons could be:
Because NPC's don't come on the forums to make posts about who just lit them up just for no good reason.
I am of the firm belief that their are those who do search these forums just to hear about what they just did. Amazing how some people can place their personal value on how many people talk about them.
Doesn't matter if it's fame or notoriety, as long as its about them, its all good,,,,,,,,,,
Of course, we're primates and we love to know our position socially. Those who don't are the exception, not the rule.
Not a good idea. One, it won't really prevent griefing in any way, shape, or form. It's very easy to look at a ship and tell if it's a PC or NPC even without looking at the icon or name, people don't fly like NPCs. Doubly so if you're trying to randomly kill PCs - fire some shots across their bow and see how they react. Sort of a reverse Turing test.
Two, it would severely harm cooperative and group behavior.
Two, it would severely harm cooperative and group behavior.
The reason we need to be able to tell (obviously) a human from an NPC, is that without this, there wouldn't be one, single, solitary impromptue player-to-player in-game chat.
No really, not one.
Or are you planning to broadcast a 'hello all' every single time you see another ship?
No, me either.
No really, not one.
Or are you planning to broadcast a 'hello all' every single time you see another ship?
No, me either.
Last edited:
There is your problem - your premise is wrong.
MMO does not mean lots of people seeing each other.
MMO is lot of people "connected" to the same game world.
Look at Robocraft, World of Tanks, World of Planes, Mechwarrior Online (this is a long list.....)
All those games are sold as an "MMO" style game, yet you see 16 folks per game. While other non MMO, but multiplayer games can have up to 64 players per game.
MMO is NOT how many people you see, it is a persistent world with lots of folks connected to it.
So, to refute the suggestion that MMOs are for interacting with other people, you offer as counter-examples four games in which players do NOTHING BUT interacting with other people? That's a... novel argument.
Yeah and you obviously don't play with other people in those games, right? -_-
Seriously guys, if you want players and npcs to look the same, just play solo. It will pretty much be the same as if you had what you're asking for, the difference being that it wont ruin the game for everyone else. And fact is that most of those who are asking for this are probably solo players who will stick to solo anyway...
Last edited:
You're actually wrong when you say that there's no reason for the separation, and you confirm your mistakeness when you say "We're all part of the pilot's federation". Only players are members of the Pilot's Federation. The whole point of the Pilot's Federation is that they are elite, specially licensed captains, we are a step above the average NPC. The NPCs are not Pilot's Federation members, hence no CMDR in the name.