Why build one of the largest game maps in history and refuse to let anyone build anything?

[Windscreen Smudge]

That's not what 'crumbling' means.

If you mean that features are in need of development beyond their current implementation then literally no-one is disagreeing with that!

It means the game's state becomes more unfinished as time progresses, instead of being more complete.

The game's foundation cannot hold it's current feature set together in a cohesive, functional form, and as time goes on the level of entropy in the game's design increases.

Crumbling.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

So all of the fundamental problems with the game that have been around since release have been fixed?

All of the features that have been introduced since release are complete?

FDev didn't just promise to dedicate a whole year of game development to "fixing" these issues that the players have been complaining about for years?

Ignorance really is bliss.

That doesn't mean that the game is crumbling though does it. In fact it means nothing. The fact that it is still going strong even with all the issues it has, which I really hope some get sorted this year is a good thing and points to the opposite of what you are saying.

It means the game's state becomes more unfinished as time progresses, instead of being more complete.

The game's foundation cannot hold it's current feature set together in a cohesive, functional form, and as time goes on the level of entropy in the game's design increases.

Crumbling.

Except that it seems they are updating the foundation this year. Building stuff isn't really adding to the foundation of the game is it, but will add another feature on top.

 

[Tiny_Rick]

Because that's Frontier's decision. Businesses make decisions that some people don't agree with. Deal with it.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

It means the game's state becomes more unfinished as time progresses, instead of being more complete.

The game's foundation cannot hold it's current feature set together in a cohesive, functional form, and as time goes on the level of entropy in the game's design increases.

Crumbling.

'Becoming more unfinished'? What? Are they removing features behind our backs?

At worst, Elite's current state is 'static, unfinished'. And Beyond will be fleshing out a lot of stuff, so no, it's not 'crumbling' by any reasonable definition of the term.

 

[Stealthie]

Anybody else recognise this sequence of events from Fallout 4?

You realise you can finally build stuff in the world. Wahay!
You gradually take control of several outposts and upgrade them to support the people who live there.
You build massive, complex, outposts until the framerate slows to a crawl at each location.
You get stuck in a loop of servicing all your outposts until it's pretty-much the only thing you're doing in-game.
You end up simplifying all of your outposts until they fulfill their requirements in the most efficient possible way and are, basically, a big shed with a heap of sleeping-bags on the floor.
You build yourself a "base" which is, basically, just a simple shed with a line of crates that contain all your stuff, a bed and space for all your workbenches.


Thing is, base-building can be fun but there's rarely much gameplay in it.
It's an arbitrary thing which you can choose to indulge in for your own gratification but, once you're bored of it, all that's really needed is storage and utility.

Maybe I'm being pessimistic but when/if FDev start focusing on giving us tools to allow us to build bases, it probably means they've run out of ideas for what else to do with the game.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Except that it seems they are updating the foundation this year. Building stuff isn't really adding to the foundation of the game is it, but will add another feature on top.

That kind of depends on what you think the foundations are.
Everyone is rightly focused on gameplay additions but I think one of the primary issues is the samey feel of everywhere in the galaxy, especially in the Bubble.

That'll hopefully be addressed on the planetary object side with the texture updates but it doesn't address the populated bubble issue.

FD clearly have a modular system for their internal design of Outposts, Stations, Planetary Settlements, etc., and yet there seem to be only a few variants visible in the game.
One of the benefits of a properly curated construction tool would be to create those unique destination structures, to add a varying flavour to different systems, to actually make it feel like you are travelling from one place to another place that actually feels different.

I'm pretty sure the community could create this far faster than FD, given the tools to do so.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

'Becoming more unfinished'? What? Are they removing features behind our backs?

At worst, Elite's current state is 'static, unfinished'. And Beyond will be fleshing out a lot of stuff, so no, it's not 'crumbling' by any reasonable definition of the term.

If a feature is released and it is incomplete, that adds to the incomplete state of the game, not the complete state of the game. You have not filled a gap, you have only created more gaps to fill.

I can keep building rooms onto a building for the rest of my life and end up with a sprawling mansion covering acres, but unless I add plumbing, electricity, HVAC and furnishings it is not complete. It is not a home.

Anybody else recognise this sequence of events from Fallout 4?

You realise you can finally build stuff in the world. Wahay!
You gradually take control of several outposts and upgrade them to support the people who live there.
You build massive, complex, outposts until the framerate slows to a crawl at each location.
You get stuck in a loop of servicing all your outposts until it's pretty-much the only thing you're doing in-game.
You end up simplifying all of your outposts until they fulfill their requirements in the most efficient possible way and are, basically, a big shed with a heap of sleeping-bags on the floor.
You build yourself a "base" which is, basically, just a simple shed with a line of crates that contain all your stuff, a bed and space for all your workbenches.


Thing is, base-building can be fun but there's rarely much gameplay in it.
It's an arbitrary thing which you can choose to indulge in for your own gratification but, once you're bored of it, all that's really needed is storage and utility.

Maybe I'm being pessimistic but when/if FDev start focusing on giving us tools to allow us to build bases, it probably means they've run out of ideas for what else to do with the game.

No, I see no correlation between this and FO4, because I didn't play broken FO4, I used mods to fix the base-building of the game and it was great. I experienced exactly none of the issues you are talking about, because I didn't settle and accept an unfinished feature but instead saw it through to completion.

Seriously, who plays FO4 unmodded for fixing everything Bethesda screwed up?

 

[Barking_Mad]

Thats because they dont have an actual argument. Their game is hanging by a thread and their current content structure is whats killing it. Yet, they are so terrified that another human might interact with them that they spend their time to come on the forums and defend (not for the sake of improvement or to help FD save their game), but to insure their internet safe space remains intact..

These ED snowflakes are wrong. They know it, but are more terrified that their safe space will be invaded that theh would rather watch the game burn than have anything change.

Well it's a variant on "The game is dying!", Ill give you that.

 

[Mengy]

Thing is, base-building can be fun but there's rarely much gameplay in it.
It's an arbitrary thing which you can choose to indulge in for your own gratification but, once you're bored of it, all that's really needed is storage and utility.

Maybe I'm being pessimistic but when/if FDev start focusing on giving us tools to allow us to build bases, it probably means they've run out of ideas for what else to do with the game.

I disagree. While the gameplay of building the base itself can be limited like you say, the actual base itself can open up better options for people to play the way they want to.

Let’s take mining for example. Currently a miner has to fly around looking for mining missions to do, which often leads to mode switching and board flipping while simply trying to get the RNG to give them what they want. Now, if that miner builds his own little mining outpost on a pristine ringed planet somewhere, maybe even in a scenic nebula, and sets his base mission board to only offer mining missions, suddenly the miner has the means to provide the gameplay he desires without needing to fight the RNG Gods. At the same time the player can set his base’s commodity board to export ores. Now other miners can get plentiful mining missions on a planet surrounded by pristine rings, and traders can fly in to buy low cost plentiful ores to sell at other stations too.

The base isn’t the item of gameplay itself, the base is the provider of gameplay. That’s the potential they could bring to the game.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

I disagree. While the gameplay of building the base itself can be limited like you say, the actual base itself can open up better options for people to play the way they want to.

Let’s take mining for example. Currently a miner has to fly around looking for mining missions to do, which often leads to mode switching and board flipping while simply trying to get the RNG to give them what they want. Now, if that miner builds his own little mining outpost on a pristine ringed planet somewhere, maybe even in a scenic nebula, and sets his base mission board to only offer mining missions, suddenly the miner has the means to provide the gameplay he desires without needing to fight the RNG Gods. At the same time the player can set his base’s commodity board to export ores. Now other miners can get plentiful mining missions on a planet surrounded by pristine rings, and traders can fly in to buy low cost plentiful ores to sell at other stations too.

The base isn’t the item of gameplay itself, the base is the provider of gameplay. That’s the potential they could bring to the game.

+rep for a genuinely constructive post instead of just blathering into the wind about "what-if"s and "But I Think"s.

 

[Barking_Mad]

I dont want to play Eve. I want to play Elite and have a meaningful experience. I this amazing flight model in this beautifully designed gameworld to actually give me something to do. Im here to help frontier. When i saw this game offered for $7.50 i knew it was getting ugly.

It just sold 142,000 copies in 16 days. Let's get ugly!

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

It just sold 142,000 copies in 16 days. Let's get ugly!

And only 1400 of those people will be playing in 3 months.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I disagree. While the gameplay of building the base itself can be limited like you say, the actual base itself can open up better options for people to play the way they want to.

Let’s take mining for example. Currently a miner has to fly around looking for mining missions to do, which often leads to mode switching and board flipping while simply trying to get the RNG to give them what they want. Now, if that miner builds his own little mining outpost on a pristine ringed planet somewhere, maybe even in a scenic nebula, and sets his base mission board to only offer mining missions, suddenly the miner has the means to provide the gameplay he desires without needing to fight the RNG Gods. At the same time the player can set his base’s commodity board to export ores. Now other miners can get plentiful mining missions on a planet surrounded by pristine rings, and traders can fly in to buy low cost plentiful ores to sell at other stations too.

The base isn’t the item of gameplay itself, the base is the provider of gameplay. That’s the potential they could bring to the game.

But this base belongs to himself right. The outpost is not affiliated with any factions as it is owned by the player. How does he give himself a mission and how do they fund the payouts. I assume they pay themselves. So what is the point of the missions when you can just go out mining with the rigmarol of sorting a mission out. If all it does is become another place controlled by the BGS, then it becomes useless to the player and will act like any other base.

I fail to see how that could work and what gameplay it could bring.

And only 1400 of those people will be playing in 3 months.

I wish I had your crystal ball.

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

Speculation only here, based on very rudimentary server knowledge, but I think they tied themselves in knots during the design phase when they opted to go the cheap (i.e. no ongoing fee) version of always online, with no main galaxy servers, being limited to a transaction, authentication and comms server only (i think?)

Similar to sm0815's comment, In addition to the common problems involved with peer-to-peer rather than client-server architecture, (leading to the currently experienced drop outs, ghost ships and the like) there is not much ability to handle a massive, modifiable and persistent galaxy, as there is nowhere to store it and retrieve the galaxy from. pretty sure apart from the relatively small quantity of hand-placed and static assets your computer generates the galaxy on-the-fly from the galaxy seed

Pretty much this. ^
Plus, planetary mining will be probably a thing as since a while, after scanning 'pristine reserves' is added to unexplored planets.

About player owned bases: what's the point?

 

[GreyAreaUK]

And only 1400 of those people will be playing in 3 months.

Dooooom!

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

And only 1400 of those people will be playing in 3 months.

And so what? Same as with any other game.
The fact is that Frontier is emerging from a kickstarter indie to an AAA developer all based on the success of this game.

 

[SpaceGoblin]

+rep for a genuinely constructive post instead of just blathering into the wind about "what-if"s and "But I Think"s.

Denigrates those that disagree as posting nothing but "what if" and "I think".

And only 1400 of those people will be playing in 3 months.

Two posts later tries to pass off "what if" conflated with "I think" as something other than a speculative opinion by stating it authoritatively.

Hypocrisy abounds.

 

[Barking_Mad]

And only 1400 of those people will be playing in 3 months.

Erm....

+rep for a genuinely constructive post instead of just blathering into the wind about "what-if"s and "But I Think"s.

Ok.

Denigrates those that disagree as posting nothing but "what if" and "I think".



Two posts later tries to pass off "what if" conflated with "I think" as something other than a speculative opinion by stating it authoritatively.

Hypocrisy abounds.

Great minds

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

And so what? Same as with any other game.
The fact is that Frontier is emerging from a kickstarter indie to an AAA developer all based on the success of this game.

FDev will never be AAA, they lack the chops to move from a solid B.

It's not the same as with any other game, because despite what people think ED thrives on the multiplayer aspect of the game. All of the biggest events in the game revolve around player interaction.

No players, no multiplayer, no game. ED isn't going to keep it's servers up for you and Harry and Lucy on Tuesdays. If maintaining the game becomes unprofitable the servers will be shut down, and you lose your game.

Denigrates those that disagree as posting nothing but "what if" and "I think".



Two posts later tries to pass off "what if" conflated with "I think" as something other than a speculative opinion by stating it authoritatively.

Hypocrisy abounds.

Except... It's not.

ED's player retention has always been atrocious beyond belief, averaging 10-12%.

Supported by the same algorithms that tell us ED sold 142,000 copies over the holiday sale.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

FDev will never be AAA, they lack the chops to move from a solid B.

Another crystal ball thing I see.

It's not the same as with any other game, because despite what people think ED thrives on the multiplayer aspect of the game. All of the biggest events in the game revolve around player interaction.

Does it. I'm not so sure to be honest. But even so, even before the sale, the game had a pretty healthy player base on steam and that doesn't include the non steam players.

No players, no multiplayer, no game. ED isn't going to keep it's servers up for you and Harry and Lucy on Tuesdays. If maintaining the game becomes unprofitable the servers will be shut down, and you lose your game.

Of course they will shut it down if it becomes unprofitable, but as it stands, it is far from that, so it's not going to happen anytime soon.

Except... It's not.
ED's player retention has always been atrocious beyond belief, averaging 10-12%.

Like a huge amount of other games out there. That's not atrocious, that is pretty normal.