Why build one of the largest game maps in history and refuse to let anyone build anything?

[[VR] optimal_909]

FDev will never be AAA, they lack the chops to move from a solid B.

It's not the same as with any other game, because despite what people think ED thrives on the multiplayer aspect of the game. All of the biggest events in the game revolve around player interaction.

No players, no multiplayer, no game. ED isn't going to keep it's servers up for you and Harry and Lucy on Tuesdays. If maintaining the game becomes unprofitable the servers will be shut down, and you lose your game.



Except... It's not.

ED's player retention has always been atrocious beyond belief, averaging 10-12%.

Supported by the same algorithms that tell us ED sold 142,000 copies over the holiday sale.

With Jurassic Park around the corner, which is apparently one of the most anticipated games in 2018, they are indeed emerging as an AAA developer. Disciplined financially and with Tencent's investment, this is fully justified. Just look at the share price, investors believe them, and not you.

The last time I checked, Elite's active player base was comparable to XCOM2's. So whatever you say...

 

[Mohrgan]

A quick answer to the OP. So we can explore in it. I for one have no interest in having building projects, when I have sortes to fly. I don;t worry for people missing out on this king of experience, because I know it can be found in many, many, many other games. Elite doesn't need to copy from anyone else.

It isn't right to come to a game, and expect it to give you the experience of another game. Tell some other game that lets you build, to produce a system that allows you to fly a ship in space from the cockpit. Troubles solved.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Anyhow, back on topic...........

I think base building by players could come in some form at some point, later - much later. I'd quite like to build a little hut on the edge of a lake on a distant earth-like world where I can spend my days fishing and hunting dinos.

However, I think a possible alternative would be to look at allowing players/groups of players to contribute to the creation and expansion of specific types of bases that already exist in the game. This could be done by looking at surface mining and exploration. Very simply put*, Scan planets with new scanning equipment and find ones that have high amounts of materials/metals on them, sell the data to factions and have factions generate missions to build small/medium/large bases to mine and extract metals. Those bases would be built and/or expanded (during Boom/Expansion) and then automatically placed during server down-time providing the mission to build them is a success. Their design would be 'fixed randomisation' is currently the case with placed bases.

This might give players a bit of ownership, even if it's one player building and watching over a small illegal mining operation on a moon somewhere, or for player run factions expanding their mining corporation into new territory.

*As it happens I've been doodling ideas on this for about a week and in doing so unravelled game within a game, without even trying to get particularly complicated about it. If I get to finishing it off ill post it up. (But like most things ill probably quite half way through

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

With Jurassic Park around the corner, which is apparently one of the most anticipated games in 2018, they are indeed emerging as an AAA developer. Disciplined financially and with Tencent's investment, this is fully justified. Just look at the share price, investors believe them, and not you.

The last time I checked, Elite's active player base was comparable to XCOM2's. So whatever you say...

Comparing ED to a single player oriented turn based strategy that is lauded for it's punishing gameplay promoting a niche audience is not shining praise. Especially when XCOM 2's long-term popularity largely rises from it's modding support, which ED does not have.

Most anticipated by who? A few fetishing journalists? Unless you've got the same anticipation of the next Battlefield or Elder scrolls game that's not a qualifying factor.

AAA does not define quality. It does not define how much money was spent developing the game. It does not define how well the game was received.

AAA is largely determined by the marketing campaign attached to the game which then pushes it into profitability regardless of quality or player satisfaction, so unless you've got an article talking about how FDev has spent 30 million promoting this game I'd pack it up.

 

[Mr_sukebe]

I'd certainly like to see it. After all, it's allowing what we as humans tend to do when we go somewhere new.
For example, we went to the Americas, found things we wanted (e.g. fur, gold) and setup businesses to mine, harvest, grow, hunt whatever was profitable. IMO it would be a good thing if Elite allowed us to start developing that.

So a starting point with airless worlds would almost certainly be mining. To me, that strikes me that we should be trying to build the usual powerplant, refinering, processing plant, landing pads, habitation etc. To do that, I assume that we would need to deliver materials, and 3d printers (at the least) from other places. As a result, creates a need to ship goods both ways. It gives MEANING for why explorers go to other worlds.

 

[Chip Patton]

Anybody else recognise this sequence of events from Fallout 4?

You realise you can finally build stuff in the world. Wahay!
You gradually take control of several outposts and upgrade them to support the people who live there.
You build massive, complex, outposts until the framerate slows to a crawl at each location.
You get stuck in a loop of servicing all your outposts until it's pretty-much the only thing you're doing in-game.
You end up simplifying all of your outposts until they fulfill their requirements in the most efficient possible way and are, basically, a big shed with a heap of sleeping-bags on the floor.
You build yourself a "base" which is, basically, just a simple shed with a line of crates that contain all your stuff, a bed and space for all your workbenches.


Thing is, base-building can be fun but there's rarely much gameplay in it.
It's an arbitrary thing which you can choose to indulge in for your own gratification but, once you're bored of it, all that's really needed is storage and utility.

Maybe I'm being pessimistic but when/if FDev start focusing on giving us tools to allow us to build bases, it probably means they've run out of ideas for what else to do with the game.

This is bad faith that you assume FDev will employ the same bad choices that Fallout4 did. Firstly, building a base in a 0-G and 0-atmo environment should require little maintenance, but can become a staging area for many things including just a place in this huge world to call home. It may not seem like much to you, but for some, the ability to leave a mark in a multiplayer game, means a lot. Look at EVE Online -- if it weren't for the psyche of "leaving a mark" null-sec would be useless except for ratting.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

AAA does not define quality. It does not define how much money was spent developing the game. It does not define how well the game was received.

AAA does not, in fact, define anything at all. It's a purely arbitrary description.

Edit: From the Book of Wiki - "An AAA game (usually pronounced "triple A game") is an informal classification used for video games produced and distributed by a mid-sized or major publisher, typically having higher development and marketing budgets. AAA game development is associated with high economic risk, with high levels of sales required to obtain profitability."

 

[krylite]

I think the OP is still posing a trollish dilemma basically another "FDev can't deliver/game is doomed, dead and dying, etc" thread, but to indulge.. Imo, it's more the case of "2" that there are technical hurdles that ED hasn't overcome yet, but in no way should be disparaging of the fact that ED is far more than just a pretty sim model of a galaxy with 400 billion stars. What it's accomplished is in the top tier of gaming and simulation, and so it's understandably constantly under attempts to being belittled, marginalized by envious parties, media favoring competitors, or otherwise.

That said, imagine if 100k players suddenly could build a custom base with graphical bells and whistles among a choice 400 billion system locations and persistent enough to show off to everyone who happens to be nearby. How could that not currently break the game. Would the game have to be constantly updated with gigabytes of download time every day? I suspect, even if they implemented it for 100k individual players, but the base could not be seen in the mmo scape except for a "orb" like NMS or limited to 64 players in an instance, the naysayers would still trash the dev efforts anyways. Frontier is taking their time, perhaps initially they may have player agency where certain activities could build a base or increase population but it would be within the stellar forge or BGS system with variation only in shared text form like a MUD. How about if a new base had control only by the players who contributed to it's construction and maintenance the most, similar to CG tiers, and only relatively smaller ground bases, not the massive orbital stations. Anyways, I have faith Frontier will add to the game for the next decade in whatever way they can realistically.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

AAA does not, in fact, define anything at all. It's a purely arbitrary description.

Edit: From the Book of Wiki - "An AAA game (usually pronounced "triple A game") is an informal classification used for video games produced and distributed by a mid-sized or major publisher, typically having higher development and marketing budgets. AAA game development is associated with high economic risk, with high levels of sales required to obtain profitability."

So in being a purely arbitrary description, attaching that description to FDev means exactly nothing, correct?

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

So in being a purely arbitrary description, attaching that description to FDev means exactly nothing, correct?

Or to any other game on the market.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

So in being a purely arbitrary description, attaching that description to FDev means exactly nothing, correct?

It means as much as it means to any other games company.

Frontier are, however, growing. By whatever definition you choose, if they're not an AAA company now then they're certainly moving towards it.

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

Comparing ED to a single player oriented turn based strategy that is lauded for it's punishing gameplay promoting a niche audience is not shining praise. Especially when XCOM 2's long-term popularity largely rises from it's modding support, which ED does not have.

Most anticipated by who? A few fetishing journalists? Unless you've got the same anticipation of the next Battlefield or Elder scrolls game that's not a qualifying factor.

AAA does not define quality. It does not define how much money was spent developing the game. It does not define how well the game was received.

AAA is largely determined by the marketing campaign attached to the game which then pushes it into profitability regardless of quality or player satisfaction, so unless you've got an article talking about how FDev has spent 30 million promoting this game I'd pack it up.

What makes you think Elite is not every bit as niche as XCOM2? And when you mention XCOM's modding as a plus - isn't it an achievement that Elite's player base is at least as stable without it?

Then replace AAA with 'major'. Jurassic Park is a significant Hollywood IP, an admirable feat considering the humble beginnings.
By the way, since it will be released at the same time as the new movie, don't bet against a large launch campaign.

 

[Kayweg]

This game never used to be multiplayer either and the fact it is means it evolved. We keep hearing that this game has been evolving since the beginning, so I would assume there to be more than a few surprises in store that those from the beginning never imagined possible and possibly never imagined they would see.

Or was absolutely every aspect and mechanic that exists in the game now explained and predicted in the beginning? Games that dont change stagnate...games that evolve beyond what they were originally designed to be flourish...which concept do players support?

The game was however being announced to be a multiplayer online game, with a (later canned) offline option.
I think "massive multiplayer online space adventure" was the original phrasing, which shortly before or after release was removed from the official ED page.
You're right in so far that other, previously unannounced, mechanics and features have indeed made it into the game (i.e PP, CQC).
But those features, whether we like them or not, still fall within the genre this game originally was pitched to be about.
A space ship based exploration, trading and combat game, so these features are consistent with the original concept.
I'm glad you mention the multiplayer part though, because it showed how much that was and still is new territory for FD to tread, causing all sorts of controversy and problems.
From connection issues to open vs solo discussions to griefing and combat logging, to C&P and whatever else.
They clearly weren't ready for that.

And now we want to encourage them to go cross genre and do something else they never have done before, with base building and (therefor inevitably) crafting ?
Especially when the core game they're trying to improve and get into better shape still has so much left to be worked on ?
And before someone goes and calls me out with "but Planetcoaster", yes, there clearly is expertise within FD when it comes to design and build stuff in a game.
But that's not only a different game and genre altogether, it's also a single player game. Where the game world can be manipulated and locally saved.
All you can manipulate in ED are numbers and values in the BGS, the game/P2P doesn't cater for players to create/destroy anything in a persistent fashion.

I certainly like some of the survival and base building games out there, like "Subnautica" or even "ARK".
Same with sci-fi themed FPS games like "Prey" and "Alien Isolation".
But i believe it's a very unhelpful utopia to ask for or sugggest "ARK"/"Subnautica"-quality/complexity ground-based content and "Prey"/"Alien"-quality/complexity installation-based content to be "simply" rolled into ED, which it's developers
are still trying to improve on, just in order to match what they envision it is supposed to be.
In my opinion, that in itself is already proving to be a job that'll require their full attention for years to come, let alone trying to venture into yet more uncharted territory.

 

[Troy_McClure]

Great minds

Sometimes...'not in this case!

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

What makes you think Elite is not every bit as niche as XCOM2? And when you mention XCOM's modding as a plus - isn't it an achievement that Elite's player base is at least as stable without it?

Then replace AAA with 'major'. Jurassic Park is a significant Hollywood IP, an admirable feat considering the humble beginnings.
By the way, since it will be released at the same time as the new movie, don't bet against a large launch campaign.

Growing does not mean moving up the food chain. There are plenty of studios out there that have been growing rapidly for the past decade, but still produce the same quality of games now that they did then.

People seem to forget that for 10 years in between Rollercoaster Tycoon and ED FDev were a thriving console development studio that did quite well with their games published under Microsoft and Lucas Arts because they personally weren't 8 year old kids playing their XBox after school at that time.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Growing does not mean moving up the food chain. There are plenty of studios out there that have been growing rapidly for the past decade, but still produce the same quality of games now that they did then.

People seem to forget that for 10 years in between Rollercoaster Tycoon and ED FDev were a thriving console development studio that did quite well with their games published under Microsoft and Lucas Arts because they personally weren't 8 year old kids playing their XBox after school at that time.

So what. And your point is?

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

So what. And your point is?

That Hollywood franchises are typically sold to shovelware studios more often than they are prime developers with a historic track record.

Aliens: Colonial Marines

Star Trek: The dozens of mobile games that exist

Lord of The Rings: 50/50 chance of the game being playable for this franchise

Dare I bring up Star Wars: Battlefront I and II?

Hollywood franchises are not a mark of success. If anything they're a mark of the beast.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

That Hollywood franchises are typically sold to shovelware studios more often than they are prime developers with a historic track record.

Aliens: Colonial Marines

Star Trek: The dozens of mobile games that exist

Lord of The Rings: 50/50 chance of the game being playable for this franchise

Dare I bring up Star Wars: Battlefront I and II?

Hollywood franchises are not a mark of success. If anything they're a mark of the beast.

Which again means little.

Frontier aren't a typical game company that makes game after game after game. They seem to be making a very few titles and then continually developing them.

 

[Achilles7]

Because we will end up with every moon in the bubble decorated with male sexual organs.

That's grossly unfair on the community!

...there will be t1ts too!

 

[Avago Earo]

They don't want their game to become Eve online. FD are so scared of having certain players become god like, as they do in Eve, so they cap our potential

Do you want to be 'god like'? It's foremost a spaceship game. Little grown ups playing space pilots. Lots of people; like Eve, so they play it. Anyway, which god?

'They don't want their game to become Eve online' No, I'm guessing they don't. Nor GTA5, nor Galaxian, nor SwingBall. Neither, I guess, do the makers of EVE want the game they created to be Elite.

That's grossly unfair on the community!

...there will be t1ts too!

Hopefully not all beige though...