Newcomer / Intro Why can't I go directly from my ship to concourse?

[Demonlord79]

OMG, Seriously.
Add this, nope, faster, add this, nope, faster, add this, nope, to grindy, add this, nope, can't make money fast enough, nope, add this, nope, but I just want to win now, nope, what we can't win this game? NOPE. Are these the type of people that are our "next generation" that are going to be running our future?
Isn't this what everyone was crying about for a year was space legs, docks, new bases to explore with legs? (even when you can walk at 1mph vs drive at 38mph) can't figure that one out yet. But still everyone wanted this and now it's not good enough after a year of crashes and fixes?
But anyway........Good Lord, someone just please shoot me now...

 

[Krieger]

OMG, Seriously.
Add this, nope, faster, add this, nope, faster, add this, nope, to grindy, add this, nope, can't make money fast enough, nope, add this, nope, but I just want to win now, nope, what we can't win this game? NOPE. Are these the type of people that are our "next generation" that are going to be running our future?
Isn't this what everyone was crying about for a year was space legs, docks, new bases to explore with legs? (even when you can walk at 1mph vs drive at 38mph) can't figure that one out yet. But still everyone wanted this and now it's not good enough after a year of crashes and fixes?
But anyway........Good Lord, someone just please shoot me now...

You're stacking too many assumptions. Generally a discussion works better if participants ask for the motives behind the other's comments.

So let me start. Your comment expresses irritation presumably caused by the critical comments on the current 'space legs' implementation. Why is that?

For the record. I'm 58 years old (playing Elite since '84) so not really that 'next generation' you refer to. Also I (and others) never asked for 'space legs'. In fact, over many years I explained many times to people who did ask for 'space legs', why I think 'space legs' is at best a sideshow in a game that has always revolved around flying spaceships. My message was: think what you ask for, you might get it. Well... unfortunately we got it and my suggestions here on 'space legs' are an attempt at damage limitation (probably in vain, I understand that).

 

[Thwarptide]

I can’t wait until they release EDO for PS4. I’ll be able to complain like everyone else.

 

[Ian Skippy]

You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but never all the people all the time.

Some people want immersion. The problem is that if you push that then you end up with SC, high detail, small area, lots of bugs.

Some people just want to teleport to their destination. They are not interested in the journey. If you take that to extremes you take away the emersion and the control and end up with something like EVE.

Some people want to open the game, shoot a load of stuff and then teleport to the next fight.

East is east and west is west and never the twain will meet.

Or just do what X4 does: do the immersion thingy if you prefer, or skip it if you dont. You can allow people to exit in the concourse without removing the option to leave to hangar.

 

[Ultra Fluffy]

Or just do what X4 does: do the immersion thingy if you prefer, or skip it if you dont. You can allow people to exit in the concourse without removing the option to leave to hangar.

Just seems a shame to be picking and choosing the bits of the game that you want to play.

• If you want to have skip options play X4
• If you want innate creatures with no brains play NMS
• If you want fancy graphics, immersion and broken bits play SC
• Otherwise play Elite and accept what it is. It is never going to please all the people all the time.

Otherwise you will end up with pages and pages of options allowing you to deselect everything except the "I win" button. Better to take what we have and make it more enjoyable. If you are not enjoying the game then play something else or write a better game.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Just seems a shame to be picking and choosing the bits of the game that you want to play.

Not sure if you are joking, but that is explicitly the design philosophy behind this game. Almost everything is optional, you pick and chose the parts that you enjoy. Even combat itself, which is the entire central core of the franchise, is completely optional.

Otherwise you will end up with pages and pages of options allowing you to deselect everything except the "I win" button.

I suggest you leave the fallacies and straw men at the door.

Better to take what we have and make it more enjoyable.

Yes, that is what OP suggests: an idea to make the game more enjoyable to him.

If you are not enjoying the game then play something else or write a better game.

I've been here since 2014, dont mind the hangar-walk at all but also can see how others dont. And since making it optional doesn't hurt me in the slightest while making other people's life more fun I dont see why anyone would oppose it.

And please dont be our local space-hillbilly yelling "if u dont like it go away!!!!!" at every suggestion. If you don't like the concept of suggestions just dont respond to them.

 

[Yingnei Gasua]

It would greatly improve the 'immersion' if only they bothered to add some proper variation to the interiors. Its just sad that several tens of thousands of stations all have virtually the same layout. Some procedural generation would be great here.

 

[Demonlord79]

You're stacking too many assumptions. Generally a discussion works better if participants ask for the motives behind the other's comments.

Sorry for the late reply. I was too busy reading other post that people got and are now complaining about. I'm also sorry if you didn't understand my point of people that can't ever be satisfied with what Frontier gives.
The point is that everyone wanted space legs to walk around with, Ya? So, Frontier gave them that. Now people are complaining about it is to time consuming to walk from your ship to the terminal.
You really didn't understand that? If post wanted to magically teleport from the ship to the terminal, then what is the point of the realism for having space legs at all?
Frontier gave the community what they wanted and now people are complaining about that.
Seems pretty clear on what I had to say about the post. YOU wanted space leg realism, not to say you personally, so Frontier gave the game realistic space legs.
Everyone always cries and complains when Frontier is kind enough to work their butts off to give people what they want and then cry and complain again because of a 15 second walk from ship to terminal even with a Cutter or Vette?
Come on, you asked, you got, deal with it.

There is only so much a company can to in a satisfying time limit.
Just look at the post above me. Have you ever been in or around a planned/gated area such as being the normal with prefab homes or subdivisions? Every home is built identically. Made my job easy as an electrician due to you do one you now know how to prepare for the next. Consider a barracks on a military base. Everything is identical. Mass production is just cost effective so of course they are most likely the same in the future. It's a game, yes, but it's as realistic as you make it under a time limit for a product.

 

[Ultra Fluffy]

People love to complain. Someone asks for space legs and immersion. Others complain about the hike from the concourse. A really good weapon gets provided. People want to engineer it to make it better. Give them the option to customise the game, they will complain about the complex option list or complain that it isn't the default. That's the problem with a game that tries to cater for everyone. It ends up satisfying nobody fully. "Take it out. I don't want it" they cry. "Make it option. I want to get to my favourite bit faster.". "That other game has got what I want. Make this game identical.". "Stop fixing the bugs. I want to get off the concourse faster". Don't get me wrong. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. It just seems that this is just petty and unnecessary. There are far more important things for FDev to do to this game, there is far more scope for improvement that will satisfy more people and make the game better than taking out the short walk to the ship from the concourse. Things that could be added to the game, not what can be hacked out or made optional because people are too lazy to do a bit of walking. Like @Demonlord79 says. Fdev have limited resources. Let them spend it on the important stuff and push this stuff into the WIBNI list never to be seen again.

 

[BirdWisdom]

From my opinion, I think there should have been a fast flat escalator from the ship to the elevator and vice versa where you can run twice as fast.

 

[Ultra Fluffy]

How about a huge cannon that fires you straight into the pilot's seat?

 

[Krieger]

<snip>...
The point is that everyone wanted space legs to walk around with, Ya? So, Frontier gave them that. Now people are complaining about it is to time consuming to walk from your ship to the terminal.
You really didn't understand that?

Of course I understand that. You're assuming everyone wanted space legs. We can't really know that. There never was a poll on that. We only know a very vocal group of players here on the forums wanted space legs.

If post wanted to magically teleport from the ship to the terminal, then what is the point of the realism for having space legs at all?

That suggestion came from me (and a few others) because I never wanted space legs. I would be happy with the teleport as a compromise. Even happier if there was no terminal at all.

Frontier gave the community what they wanted and now people are complaining about that.
Seems pretty clear on what I had to say about the post. YOU wanted space leg realism, not to say you personally, so Frontier gave the game realistic space legs.
Everyone always cries and complains when Frontier is kind enough to work their butts off to give people what they want and then cry and complain again because of a 15 second walk from ship to terminal even with a Cutter or Vette?
Come on, you asked, you got, deal with it.

IIRC players made it clear they wanted space legs, i.e space walks, ship interiors, and stuff to do inside and outside the ship (repairs, combat, stealing ships/cargo, etc). Frontier gave them legs focused mainly on FPS combat and topped it off with engineers that demand even more grind to engineer a single suit or weapon than it takes to fully engineer an Anaconda. So one could say Frontier did not give people what they asked for. It was a glancing blow at best.

You haven't aswered my question. Why do you get so agitated by people criticising space legs and suggesting changes?

 

[Frank]

Just seems a shame to be picking and choosing the bits of the game that you want to play.

• If you want to have skip options play X4
• If you want innate creatures with no brains play NMS
• If you want fancy graphics, immersion and broken bits play SC
• Otherwise play Elite and accept what it is. It is never going to please all the people all the time.

Otherwise you will end up with pages and pages of options allowing you to deselect everything except the "I win" button. Better to take what we have and make it more enjoyable. If you are not enjoying the game then play something else or write a better game.

You do realise several years back the same sort of question popped up about the pre-flight checklist. The immersionists wanted to savour their take-off routine while others just wanted to get going

Guess how they sorted out that little conundrum?.. That's right. It's optional. So we know FDev can satisfy both types of players if they apply themselves a bit

I just wonder how many of those immersionists still use the pre-flight checklist

 

[Ultra Fluffy]

You do realise several years back the same sort of question popped up about the pre-flight checklist. The immersionists wanted to savour their take-off routine while others just wanted to get going

Guess how they sorted out that little conundrum?.. That's right. It's optional. So we know FDev can satisfy both types of players if they apply themselves a bit

I just wonder how many of those immersionists still use the pre-flight checklist

and how many bits of the current game need culling before the game is acceptable to some people? Guaranteed someone won't like the bits that are left behind. So make them optional too. Then add in the bits from other games that people want, but make them optional (just in case other people don't want them). Then bingo. You have a game that can be made into any other game.

I get that people hate walking through near identical areas to get from concourse to ship, but I think there are better ways to improve it than just deleting it. And there are more important parts of EDH/EDO that need the devs attention before removing bits they have just added.

It needs more creative ways of getting missions and selling stuff that has been collected, rather than monotonous repetitive operations over the same scenery. FDev have started that by adding mission givers in settlements. It needs lots more "I wonder what is around the corner" moments and less "here we go again". The planets are procedurally created, why not the stations. The stations are massive, but the only accessible areas are a small generic shopping mall. It needs more to explore (if you want to), but of course that would involve more walking.

But reading these forums I suspect that there a number of people who just want to do the pew pew. They don't want to collect mats to upgrade their weapons. They just want the top grade now. They don't want to hunt around for a target they just want it in front of them. They don't want the challenge of a ship that is better than them. They want one that is better then everyone else. Some even sit outside the start system waiting for noobies to appear, because they are too frightened of a decent challenge. They want to remove loads of features until they get a 3D space invaders arcade game.

So in summary, I say improve what we already have rather than delete it. Give the game more, rather than less.

 

[varonica]

It would greatly improve the 'immersion' if only they bothered to add some proper variation to the interiors. Its just sad that several tens of thousands of stations all have virtually the same layout. Some procedural generation would be great here.

You understand they did that deliberately? Watch a SC video with a new player wandering around a massive and complex station for ten or fifteen minutes looking for a particular shop where he can do X. The concourses are mostly identical so you can quickly go to exactly what you want. With the coming of FC interiors there's a good chance this is an indication of more interiors in the future that may be more varied, but the current crop are the same due to a design decision by the devs to make them more convenient for players.

 

[aRJay]

The lack of variety in station interiors can be explained away in part by a couple of things one is that they seem to have been built by one corporation, Brewer, so a degree of standardisation is not too surprising the other is that humans seem to have stopped changing working designs for reasons like fashion after all some of the spaceships have been around for centuries.

 

[CMDR Von Abrahart]

Stairs are the future

 

[Frank]

and how many bits of the current game need culling before the game is acceptable to some people? Guaranteed someone won't like the bits that are left behind. So make them optional too. Then add in the bits from other games that people want, but make them optional (just in case other people don't want them). Then bingo. You have a game that can be made into any other game.

I get that people hate walking through near identical areas to get from concourse to ship, but I think there are better ways to improve it than just deleting it. And there are more important parts of EDH/EDO that need the devs attention before removing bits they have just added.

It needs more creative ways of getting missions and selling stuff that has been collected, rather than monotonous repetitive operations over the same scenery. FDev have started that by adding mission givers in settlements. It needs lots more "I wonder what is around the corner" moments and less "here we go again". The planets are procedurally created, why not the stations. The stations are massive, but the only accessible areas are a small generic shopping mall. It needs more to explore (if you want to), but of course that would involve more walking.

But reading these forums I suspect that there a number of people who just want to do the pew pew. They don't want to collect mats to upgrade their weapons. They just want the top grade now. They don't want to hunt around for a target they just want it in front of them. They don't want the challenge of a ship that is better than them. They want one that is better then everyone else. Some even sit outside the start system waiting for noobies to appear, because they are too frightened of a decent challenge. They want to remove loads of features until they get a 3D space invaders arcade game.

So in summary, I say improve what we already have rather than delete it. Give the game more, rather than less.

Luckily for those of us who like the pew pew there's CQC. I am really sick of the grind in Elite and I was a bit dismayed when I saw grinding was the way for upgrading suits and guns. That, and the poor VR experience has kept me playing Horizons

To tell you the truth, I thought the OP was just being sarcastic. The excuse that the ship interiors would just add time to exiting the ship doesn't really hold water when FDev are quite happy for us to trudge about in a featureless hangar

I'm not against the lazy pace of Elite. I've been to Beagle Point, and I'm just this week back from Sag A. But what I don't do is really care how other folks play the game. If FDev come up with a superduper frameshift that does the journey in a quarter of the time I wouldn't feel that my "achievement" in reaching Beagle Point was in any way undermined. I wouldn't mind if an option to jump directly to the concourse was added to the game. I don't have a "well I suffered trudging through empty hangars and so everyone else should as well" attitude

Maybe they could hide the option in the XML like they do the HUD colour? There could be a line
I_Love_Trudging_Thru_Empty_Hangars = 1

 

[Yingnei Gasua]

You understand they did that deliberately? Watch a SC video with a new player wandering around a massive and complex station for ten or fifteen minutes looking for a particular shop where he can do X. The concourses are mostly identical so you can quickly go to exactly what you want. With the coming of FC interiors there's a good chance this is an indication of more interiors in the future that may be more varied, but the current crop are the same due to a design decision by the devs to make them more convenient for players.

The interiors are small enough that it wont really take a couple of minutes at worst. It will be like say, the different town layouts in Ultima V or something.

 

[varonica]

The interiors are small enough that it wont really take a couple of minutes at worst. It will be like say, the different town layouts in Ultima V or something.

That's not the point, the point it the concourses were deliberately made the same for a reason and they aren't going to suddenly change all the concourses everywhere. Consider it modular contruction like the actual starports themselves, constructed in factories and the parts shipped there and assembled.