Why do the devs keep destroying every form of making income?

[GilliganTX]

I guess the question is:
a) Would people still find plenty to enjoy in ED if making credits was a whole lot easier?
b) Assuming credits where easy to come by, Would people just use this as a means of maxing out the best ships or would they still fly their favourite ships?

For me the answer would be
a) Yes.
b) Some people would but many wouldn't care and would do their own thing. Credits become secondary over enjoying the game, which is where all of us ultimately want to be!

I'm going to agree. If Cr were easier to come by I likely would never have "grinded" Robigo as hard as I did (But I did enjoy that game play, I just burnt myself out because it was one of the few places to make good money), and never would have touched Sothis/Ceos more than once or twice.

But just playing the game doesn't pay. If I'm not grinding for Cr, I'm typically losing Cr in donations, fuel, repairs, and rebuys, or just barely breaking even.

 

[Fire70]

I'm going to agree. If Cr were easier to come by I likely would never have "grinded" Robigo as hard as I did (But I did enjoy that game play, I just burnt myself out because it was one of the few places to make good money), and never would have touched Sothis/Ceos more than once or twice.

But just playing the game doesn't pay. If I'm not grinding for Cr, I'm typically losing Cr in donations, fuel, repairs, and rebuys, or just barely breaking even.

Too true..

This game is credit based like it or not.. Everything fun to do in the game requires credits so its natural many players are focused on getting them as quickly and efficiently as possible.

The problem isn't with the players but with the game. Either make everything cheaper so players don't feel so compelled to get as many credits as they can or make the grind less of a grind so there isn't such a focus on getting new stuff.

 

[Jukelo]

PvP is the only occupation that actually requires a constant stream of credits, everything else just requires a one-time investment in ship and equipment. And apart from PvP you can do just about anything in a small cheap ship. Even a Viper will do just fine in a CZ or HAZRES.
Certainly gaining credits to buy new ships gives a nice feeling, but for the majority of people top tier ships are not a requirement.

 

[Susanna]

I'm going to agree. If Cr were easier to come by I likely would never have "grinded" Robigo as hard as I did (But I did enjoy that game play, I just burnt myself out because it was one of the few places to make good money), and never would have touched Sothis/Ceos more than once or twice.

But just playing the game doesn't pay. If I'm not grinding for Cr, I'm typically losing Cr in donations, fuel, repairs, and rebuys, or just barely breaking even.

It's almost an Ethos type of thing...

Frontier seem to be afraid that if you could make enough credits to do what you wanted in the game such that the credits were secondary, you'd get bored and quit...

Meanwhile the player base are scratching around and getting so fed up with grinding for a few credits that they are getting fed up and quitting the game...

If Frontier genuinely believed in their game, they wouldn't care about how many credits people earned, and wouldn't be nurfing the hell out of everything... They'd believe people would play their game for its own sake because it is a great game to play!

 

[Fire70]

It's almost an Ethos type of thing...

Frontier seem to be afraid that if you could make enough credits to do what you wanted in the game such that the credits were secondary, you'd get bored and quit...

Meanwhile the player base are scratching around and getting so fed up with grinding for a few credits that they are getting fed up and quitting the game...

If Frontier genuinely believed in their game, they wouldn't care about how many credits people earned, and wouldn't be nurfing the hell out of everything... They'd believe people would play their game for its own sake because it is a great game to play!

You would thing FD in order to keep players to play the game would provide more interesting things to do as opposed to try to keep players by dangling a carrot over them to keep playing.. That the problem with the game now, its about the carrot...

 

[dynamicbob]

we just need more variety in the carrots

 

[GilliganTX]

PvP is the only occupation that actually requires a constant stream of credits, everything else just requires a one-time investment in ship and equipment. And apart from PvP you can do just about anything in a small cheap ship. Even a Viper will do just fine in a CZ or HAZRES.
Certainly gaining credits to buy new ships gives a nice feeling, but for the majority of people top tier ships are not a requirement.

I disagree. PvP certainly costs MORE, but it's not the only thing in the game that costs.

Sure, I can do just fine in a cheap ship - honestly, my favorite CZ tool is still my vulture. But I only want to dog fight for so long. Sometimes it's fun to bring a battleship. Sometimes it's fun to see if you FDL fits through that little gap in the canyon.

FUN in this game costs. You're right, I wouldn't need a constant stream of Millions of Credits if all I cared about doing was single data delivery missions in a sidewinder. Tell you what, you go enjoy that, and I'm going to try and jacknifing from asteroid to asteroid at top speed in a planetary ring with my FDL while RES farming.

 

[Susanna]

we just need more variety in the carrots

But the carrots need to be worth doing (for credits), or make the game such that you don't have to work so hard to get the ship you want, so that the carrots don't have to be financially based...

 

[Bartizan]

At the end of the day it's not about getting that shiny new ship, or kitting it with 100s of millions in credits, or being able to engineer your conda's FSD over and over again to hit that goal you want.....none of that matters nearly as much as the time you spend doing all that. The reward system un-appaulagetically dismisses the value you place on your time. Some can play for 10+ hours a day, some can play for an hour. The commonality between those two people is they both like the game and WANT to enjoy the time they spend in it, but if the reward system is going to just favor those who have the time or don't care about grinding endlessly to achieve something, then you alienate the casual players. I am sorry, but that makes absolutely no sense.
Keep "balancing" rewards all you want, FD....until you start respecting peoples time, you are woefully out of touch with the gamers who do want this game to succeed but have had it with tripping over your incompetence to deliver.

 

[Cmdr Wullfen]

@ Bartizan couldn't have said it better.

I posted in the tourist thread (the one with all caps) how I had found the loop of passenger missions quite rewarding in both gameplay and credits. Something a commander like myself can do with limited time and still feel as though I've achieved something of worth.

Now as it stands the best way for someone with limited time is CGs. At least I can do a bit of fighting or shipping if I need credits and not have to invest massive amounts of time I don't have

Fingers crossed it's only temporary, was finally working on my federal ranking again, a task previously hindered by the mission boards

 

[RamirezKurita]

I'd be happier if they simply worked on balancing profit between different professions and the archetypes within those professions. Sothis was basically an exploit, an unintended consequence of how missions were generated, that produced extremely unbalanced incomes practically regardless of player equipment. Income shouldn't depend on what you are doing, but how well you are doing it and how well you are equipped to do it.

 

[DefiledDragon]

I think FD worry that once players have loads of money, they'll stop playing. What they seem to have failed to understand is that by making credits so difficult to come by, it forces many (not all) players to focus on the things that make them the most money fastest, rather than doing what they actually want to do while the money just accumulates naturally at a decent rate.

When I started playing, I bounty hunted my way from a Sidewinder to a Cobra to a Vulture then an FDL. Then I got my Python and started doing missions. I don't do either of those things anymore because the payouts for them have been decimated by what I believe is FD's desire to push people towards certain areas of the game that they feel aren't getting enough playtime. Due to the fact that bounty hunting and missions were the thing I enjoyed the most, I no longer play the game. I wanted to try the Anaconda, but I'm not selling my entire fleet just to see if I'll like the ship or not, nor am I going to spend the next 200 hours grinding credits at 2-3 mil per hour so I can buy one and give it a half decent fit. As good as ED is, I would burn out long before I achieved that financial goal and in fact, I already have.

 

[Balalaika]

I think FD worry that once players have loads of money, they'll stop playing. What they seem to have failed to understand is that by making credits so difficult to come by, it forces many (not all) players to focus on the things that make them the most money fastest, rather than doing what they actually want to do while the money just accumulates naturally at a decent rate.

When I started playing, I bounty hunted my way from a Sidewinder to a Cobra to a Vulture then an FDL. Then I got my Python and started doing missions. I don't do either of those things anymore because the payouts for them have been decimated by what I believe is FD's desire to push people towards certain areas of the game that they feel aren't getting enough playtime. Due to the fact that bounty hunting and missions were the thing I enjoyed the most, I no longer play the game. I wanted to try the Anaconda, but I'm not selling my entire fleet just to see if I'll like the ship or not, nor am I going to spend the next 200 hours grinding credits at 2-3 mil per hour so I can buy one and give it a half decent fit. As good as ED is, I would burn out long before I achieved that financial goal and in fact, I already have.

It's good to see a fellow bounty hunter. Back then bounty hunting was a legit income churner. I would spend all day in RES, blowing up ships while picking up missions to send me to blow up even more ships in the RES. But they'll all in the pass now, RES hunting isn't as lucrative as before, at times my FDL earn even less compare to my Viper did per hour back then in the good'ol days. Pirate hunting missions has almost been completely wiped, since released of Horizon I could honestly said I've seen less than 5 of them in total. I've noticed they applied another bounty nerf in RES during the launching of 2.2, FDL and conda worth 50k+ now is a common sight in HAZ RES, compare to minimum of 100k before. One thing is clear for me, FD would not hesitate to punish their players in each new major update, in order to push their new contents.

 

[Dominatus01]

Congratulations are due once again to Fdev. They have yet again managed the impossible, they have surpassed any previous stupidity levels!

They force this new passenger nonsense on us, and then at least have the common sense to make it lucrative so that we all give it a go.

Then, in their infinite wisdom, they again bring out their trusty nerf bat that has served them so well in killing most other aspects of the game. Nerf bat tells them to nerf all the payouts on passenger missions. So first thing I suspect most players have done is refit their ships removing all this boring passenger nonsense. Superb thinking.

So, to clarify, FD introduce almost an entire patch bringing in a new aspect to the game that they then self destruct less than 2 weeks after its release.

Yes, another brilliant bit of brainstorming from the genii at Fdev. Truly amazing!

 

[Dortmunder]

FDev doesn't know what their players want. Or they do and don't want them to have what they want.

Proof: Missions get nerfed(and bugged in the process). Players complain and report that missions are paying way too little.

FDev's answer is to nerf one of the only decent mission types while not fixing the previously broken mission rewards.

A child could do better.

 

[xdeath]

Frontier might receive a lot less complaints like this if they made the core roles more fun and engaging.

Players would complain less about earnings and min/maxing, and simply do activities that they enjoy.

 

[soaringraptor]

At the end of the day it's not about getting that shiny new ship, or kitting it with 100s of millions in credits, or being able to engineer your conda's FSD over and over again to hit that goal you want.....none of that matters nearly as much as the time you spend doing all that. The reward system un-appaulagetically dismisses the value you place on your time. Some can play for 10+ hours a day, some can play for an hour. The commonality between those two people is they both like the game and WANT to enjoy the time they spend in it, but if the reward system is going to just favor those who have the time or don't care about grinding endlessly to achieve something, then you alienate the casual players. I am sorry, but that makes absolutely no sense.
Keep "balancing" rewards all you want, FD....until you start respecting peoples time, you are woefully out of touch with the gamers who do want this game to succeed but have had it with tripping over your incompetence to deliver.

This is exactly the problem I have with the game now. I work 10 hours a day not play 10 hours a day! I like to dabble in all aspects but the Devs are telling me that only kids and unemployed can make mega money to enjoy the shiny new ships and upgrade them. I played the original Elite on a C64 when my time was worth relatively nothing. I have always loved this game but I am old as F now and don't have another lifetime to build bank. I only play solo because those with more free time and full tweaked toys keep blowing old whiny butt to space bits.
Now my solo game just got smaller.

 

[B1rdy]

[...]Once in the habbit and aware of the "tricks," not the most difficult thing in the game, sure, but one of the top 10, IMO, and far from a no-brainer, especially getting started.

I am with you on that. I was regarding to the payout, which made these mission the only and obvious choice. At the moment the mission payment is as bad as early 2015, when doing random, mission unrelated stuff was way more rewarding.

 

[Markus4445]

I would like that if thousands of players already used these get rich quick schemes.

I never had the chance even tho i have played since dec 2014. That's why it feels bad to earn credits the normal way because so many earned 30x more than what i earn right now every hour.

 

[Markus4445]

At the end of the day it's not about getting that shiny new ship, or kitting it with 100s of millions in credits, or being able to engineer your conda's FSD over and over again to hit that goal you want.....none of that matters nearly as much as the time you spend doing all that. The reward system un-appaulagetically dismisses the value you place on your time. Some can play for 10+ hours a day, some can play for an hour. The commonality between those two people is they both like the game and WANT to enjoy the time they spend in it, but if the reward system is going to just favor those who have the time or don't care about grinding endlessly to achieve something, then you alienate the casual players. I am sorry, but that makes absolutely no sense.
Keep "balancing" rewards all you want, FD....until you start respecting peoples time, you are woefully out of touch with the gamers who do want this game to succeed but have had it with tripping over your incompetence to deliver.

This is so true^^