Modes Why do you want me in Open?

[Snarfbuckle]

It's not about getting people who don't want to be in Open.
It's about making PP make sense and mean something.

Which means they should redesign PP from the ground up to make sense.

• Remove the PP ranking system
• Add PP factions as a regular faction
• Add a regular rank system as other factions have similar to minor and major factions
• Gain a BONUS to any missions done in faction controlled space in reputation and rewards
• (let’s say +10% mission bonus reward in rep and payment PER PP RANK)
• Get a PENALTY when picking missions in OPPOSITE faction space
• Any gain in faction standing for the followed PP faction means TWICE the reduced standing in any OTHER PP faction.
• Move PP weapons to Engineers that are unlockable after 4 weeks with a PP faction and STAYS unlocked after that (it’s tech, it can be duplicated and cannot be locked behind a DRM and some of them are just crap).
• Controlling a system now means moving PP friendly minor factions influence into other systems by doing regular MISSIONS as per normal gameplay instead of a convoluted weird game on top of the REAL game.

Now we have a system which goes hand in hand with regular factions, gives bonus to missions started in controlled space and taking out enemy ships in enemy faction space will lower another factions system influence.

 

[Marra Morgan]

Which means they should redesign PP from the ground up to make sense.

• Remove the PP ranking system
• Add PP factions as a regular faction
• Add a regular rank system as other factions have similar to minor and major factions
• Gain a BONUS to any missions done in faction controlled space in reputation and rewards
• (let’s say +10% mission bonus reward in rep and payment PER PP RANK)
• Get a PENALTY when picking missions in OPPOSITE faction space
• Any gain in faction standing for the followed PP faction means TWICE the reduced standing in any OTHER PP faction.
• Move PP weapons to Engineers that are unlockable after 4 weeks with a PP faction and STAYS unlocked after that (it’s tech, it can be duplicated and cannot be locked behind a DRM and some of them are just crap).
• Controlling a system now means moving PP friendly minor factions influence into other systems by doing regular MISSIONS as per normal gameplay instead of a convoluted weird game on top of the REAL game.

Now we have a system which goes hand in hand with regular factions, gives bonus to missions started in controlled space and taking out enemy ships in enemy faction space will lower another factions system influence.

Your ideas are basically to remove PP and put it all into the BgS. Not really a big sell for Powerplay, is it?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Happy to help

Although I think it's been the forum that has done the detracting with its hysterical hand-wringing over the Open-Only part, not so much the announcement itself.



It's a sum of all its parts - engaged players will keep pushing their factions.



Not really, sorry. I'm not a current Powerplayer (although these proposals may change that!) and would feel a bit phoney going any further - I'm far from an expert on the topic! What I've said is pretty much what I've gathered from reading the folks who are long-term Powerplayers with a dash of what I remember from my own experiences. If you want some genuine and deeper reasoning, I'd suggest you go on to the PP sub or one of the Discords and ask there.

Ok, well thanks anyway. I guess its a case of wait and see then.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Your ideas are basically to remove PP and put it all into the BgS. Not really a big sell for Powerplay, is it?

Heh, after 1.3 landed and i had a chance to look at it i did a very large post about what i found to be the problem with PP and how i would have preferred it to be.

It basically was full integration with the BGS. No more controlling systems that your superpower doesn't control (or indep for indep powers) - basically in order for the Feds to control a system there must be a Fed faction in control. None of this stupid hauling flyers or whatever. Everything driven through missions and other actions like the BGS, with the Powers simply growing out of the factions (and fading back into factions if they lost too much territory).

Still wish they had gone this way.

 

[Marra Morgan]

Heh, after 1.3 landed and i had a chance to look at it i did a very large post about what i found to be the problem with PP and how i would have preferred it to be.

It basically was full integration with the BGS. No more controlling systems that your superpower doesn't control (or indep for indep powers) - basically in order for the Feds to control a system there must be a Fed faction in control. None of this stupid hauling flyers or whatever. Everything driven through missions and other actions like the BGS, with the Powers simply growing out of the factions (and fading back into factions if they lost too much territory).

Still wish they had gone this way.

There's a fair few Powerplayers and BgS'ers who prefer them kept as separate layers. Me included!

As Sandro has said, the idea behind Powerplay is a direct conflict-driver between players. While BgS does include conflict, there's a lot more going on. I don't think that you can make a direct conflict-driver with the BgS, not as well as can be done through Powerplay, anyway.

I think it's because of that reason that FDev are (quire rightly) not extending to open-only thing to the BgS.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Your ideas are basically to remove PP and put it all into the BgS. Not really a big sell for Powerplay, is it?

Oh i like the IDEA of powerplay, not just it's execution with it's poorly designed RISK game overlay.

- It would have PP work WITHIN the BgS instead of a separate entity which means it automatically influences all minor factions under their control instead of the stupid 4 week rotation system and insane grind.
- Members would no longer be forgotten after 4 weeks and become bottom tier but actually have rank in an organisation similar to a minor faction or major faction standing.
- The overlay map would still show the influence and pilots would still work to spread the influence.
- The main difference is that it would be a longer game of taking over systems and not a tally quota after 4 weeks.

 

[Ziljan]

What exactly are you missing out on by not having me in your instance?

This is a bit of a false premise. First, the debate isn't about trying to get more people in Open, there are plenty of people in Open. The main problems are that:

1) It's a BIG galaxy, and CMDRs are too spread out with no real bottlenecks (besides PP control systems), and
2) Players in Open don't participate in structured competition (like PP) because really, what's the point when someone in Solo/PG can just beat you to the punch, unhindered by player opposition, and
3) The rebuys take so long to recoup (without CR exploits) that most otherwise-PVP-friendly CMDRs just bypass PVP altogether.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

This is a bit of a false premise. First, the debate isn't about trying to get more people in Open, there are plenty of people in Open. The main problems are that:

1) It's a BIG galaxy, and CMDRs are too spread out with no real bottlenecks (besides PP control systems), and
2) Players in Open don't participate in structured competition (like PP) because really, what's the point when someone in Solo/PG can just beat you to the punch, unhindered by player opposition, and
3) The rebuys take so long to recoup (without CR exploits) that most otherwise-PVP-friendly CMDRs just bypass PVP altogether.

You're really telling me what my thread is about?

The debate in the thread may lead to those points, and others, but the original question stands.

 

[Ziljan]

You're really telling me what my thread is about?

The debate in the thread may lead to those points, and others, but the original question stands.

I was referring to the ongoing forum debate referenced in your OP...

... there's a full court press, all guns blazing forum meta-war going on with the very foundations of the game at stake...

Unless you're saying that this thread by itself is the "full court press" you mentioned?

 

[MadDogMurdock]

I was referring to the ongoing forum debate referenced in your OP...



Unless you're saying that this thread by itself is the "full court press" you mentioned?

Fair point, well made. I'll get my coat.

 

[lefty1117]

We want you in open if youre playing powerplay. Thats all. No need to make it more than it is

 

[Jex =TE=]

Try to remember that many of us bought the game with no desire to use it as a shoot-em-up game but as a space simulation.

This.

ED was sold on the premise of there being stuff in the 400 billion star galaxy they harp on about all the time that has nothing in it. Few people backed or bought Elite just for pewpew - they wanted a life in a spaceship with a rich and deep universe to interact with.

 

[Jex =TE=]

The scenario you asked for? Driving down an empty road late at night, and you stop a red light. Someone walks up and carjacks you. They don't have to pay a fine or bounty, and nothing happens to them unless they get caught. Also, what is a "well balanced player"? Someone who plays the same way that you do? I do a little bit of everything I can in the game...does that make me well balanced? If it does, then your statement is definitely false. Also, I don't personally care what mode you want to play in. If you want to wander the entire galaxy by yourself, then by all means go for it. I want a simulation game with multi player interaction, which includes all the positive and negatives that come with it.

But that carjacker has 18 shield cell boosters.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Isn’t this proposed “PP Open mode only” actually Sandro trying address a much bigger problem? Which is to save Open mode and make it relevant.

There’s no threads advocating or game design changes proposed trying to lure, coax or force people into Solo or PG. Solo and PG players seem to be pretty happy with their game modes. Open is the broken mode, where “play the game the way you want” is pretty much impossible, unless you’re willing to accept non-consensual PvP and become some other Commander’s content. Hopefully, FD will eventually fix Open so it is a more enjoyable mode for the PvP crowd. I’m a firm believer in all modes being equal, and equally enjoyable for those who play in their preferred mode.

Most of the players have left. Years ago there was a lot of calls for changing Open just so players could effectively blockade, that silent players shouldn't be allowed to affect the BGS or PP - FDev ignored all of that until today when they just changed their minds and way too late.

 

[Jex =TE=]

I don't want you in Open. I just don't want you undermining my PowerPlay systems in solo. It's great that you're skilled at running away. The thing I'm missing out on is the ability to make you run away from systems I want to defend.

As has been pointed out around 50 times now, solo players do not undermine powerplay

Now we do have an issue with reading comprehension around here

It's not about getting people who don't want to be in Open.
It's about making PP make sense and mean something.

This should have been implemented years ago. Fingers crossed they don't wuss out again.

But the gameplay is hardly changing so it's still boring and still nobody will play it and it'll have the impact of wasting dev time that could go someplace else.

 

[Kelfaur]

I rarely ever play in PG or solo, quite honestly I'd be more than happy for open to be the only mode.

 

[Goose4291]

Unless you're saying that this thread by itself is the "full court press" you mentioned?

Google 'Elite Dangerous Powerplay' and select the news tab if you want a laugh at how 'sirius buzness' gaming journalists are taking this change.

On the plus side, you'll catch up on your hockey news.

 

[Jex =TE=]

I'm pretty sure that if you'd thoroughly analyze this 'premise' you'll quickly find nothing more than the usual advertising speak. The 'premise' part was then conveniently imaginated by your brain and your dreams...

Well there is that and they also knew that too so double-evil from them! Manipulating the playerbase which I'm glad you brought up

The fact that they spoke about it in KS and then in the DDF made it wayyyyy more than advertising speak. Most, if not all of us knew their marketing YouTube video was an outright lie - we weren't fooled by that but months of documented design talks & decisions solely on trying to sell a product?

That takes a special kind of evil.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

So in the spirit of inquiry I'll be doing the Smuggling/Trade CG in Open - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/428894-Los-Chupacabras-Campaign-(Trade)

Shinrarta Dezhra is right next door, so it's convenient for all sorts of people - could get interesting.

 

[Kaocraft]

As has been pointed out around 50 times now, solo players do not undermine powerplay
.

Yes they do. Undermining is a category of PowerPlay activity, which people can do in solo. I don't know what you think I'm talking about, but here you go:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...101-Want-to-get-your-Rating-up-fast-Look-here!

I think PowerPlay would be better if you couldn't do these kinds of things in solo.