Why does it take so long to fix game issues?

[verminstar]

I'd agree HG have done a very good job yet it's somewhat amusing that this was a game that was misrepresented by Shaun Murray and then universally rounded upon, derided and dismissed on release - to the point where the met police had to handle death threats to HG. The game then remained (as most critics would suggest) in roughly the same state for a long period of time before the Next update. That was give or take a few weeks nearly 2 years ago. Time flies huh?

Yet one very good release later it's now being heralded by some people as being a great example of how to do things.

So in all that 2 years of time before releasing Next what exactly were HG doing? Platting fog? Cruising round the med? They were silent for a long time, something which FDev get hammered for, but now the manure in the HG garden has come up roses and their silence paid off and gamers rejoice and hail HG as the Great New Dev Kings. Huzzah! What a weird and fickle bunch gamers are.

So that brings us to Beyond Chapter 4 and a very large and significant update. How good will it be? Who knows, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. But to deny FDev the same opportunity to improve many things seems to be at best churlish and at worst setting themselves up to took foolish.

Personal Opinion (feel free to quote me later) Beyond will make, for the better, some significant changes to the game, improving many areas beyond what has been announced. People will largely rejoice and others will slink off into the forum shadows waiting for the darkness to return. Which it of course will. Eventually.

So long as it does what they said it would do last October all could be saved...if it doesnt then there is no beyond beyond. Not saying NMS has the better dev team, but regular updates and bug fixes every other day feels a helluva lot better than 6 to 12 month waiting times. Oh Im sure someone will provide what they think are valid reasons fer this, but still...6 to 12 months versus twice a week...hmm food fer thought.

To be clear, what frontier does, I like...the problem is the time it takes. True NMS was rubbish before the Next update but Im not defending or taking any stance in this regard cos I didnt touch NMS before the next update...Im a noob literally cos Im an xbone player and xbone just joined the party so everyone on xbox is a noob like me and will have no real argument to make cos we literally werent there. Im not on their forums because its nothing more than a fun distraction as opposed to a replacement...while frontier get Q4 together which will hopefully spark my motivation to play again.

What is interesting to note is that my original comment has since been proven numerous times over the course of the thread...the last time by Eagleboy on this very page of the thread. A point that others said exist only in my imagination...funny that...its changing how I percieve those posters and not in a good way because they arent making good arguments, just flinging mud around and hoping some sticks.

I find that to be quite sad truth be told...I actually feel sorry fer them sometimes...just sometimes though ^

 

[Barking_Mad]

Laughing at how HG was the devil just a few moons ago. Now it's space jesus.. please.

Yeah and people don't seem to grasp the fact they're very different space based games. You might as well complain it takes longer to fix a Rolls Royce than it does a go-kart.

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

i wonder how many versions further the actual DEV team is working.

from other online games, i am used to have DEVs working on a version of the game that is at least two itterations further then the one the players have.
In between there are the non-public testing version, and the more or less public test version.

now, imagine a bug in the source code is now found in the final version. where do you fix it? version 1, 2, 3 or 4?
especially when said code was already modified in on of those versions and the fix would require a different script to apply for each version.

at least, thats what i was told from some game DEVs a while ago.

 

[Sylveria]

ED has been out for nearly 5 years... in that timeframe, FDEV have practically done nothing in comparison to what HG have done with NMS in 2 years.

Really? It was released in 2013, huh?

Um.. try almost four, if you count the end of this year.

Also, aside from the fact that both games are set in space- they've relatively little in common in terms of scope. I really don't understand how comparing a game like ED to NMS is even a thing to begin with, aside from hyperbole and speculation. Hell, you might as well be comparing ED's progress to "Doom", for all that matters.

I get some are disappointed with Frontier's perceived lack of progress in some areas- or even that Frontier completely ignores what they want the game to be (as opposed to what it really is) because their intent was never to please absolutely everyone on the planet- but some of this pure conjecture and fantasy really needs to stop.

 

[THECATISDEAD]

Really? It was released in 2013, huh?

Um.. try almost four, if you count the end of this year.

Also, aside from the fact that both games are set in space- they've relatively little in common in terms of scope. I really don't understand how comparing a game like ED to NMS is even a thing to begin with, aside from hyperbole and speculation. Hell, you might as well be comparing ED's progress to "Doom", for all that matters.

I get some are disappointed with Frontier's perceived lack of progress in some areas- or even that Frontier completely ignores what they want the game to be (as opposed to what it really is) because their intent was never to please absolutely everyone on the planet- but some of this pure conjecture and fantasy really needs to stop.

Well, broadly speaking they are the same:

- fly a space ship
- explore the galaxy
- buy/sell stuff
- combat
- crafting/engineering
- grinding (salt)
- procedural system

I think lots of people get stuck on the "cartoon" look and the "noob flight model eee" and ignore the fact that actually, they are the same genre of game. One is catered towards one end of the gamer spectrum and vice versa. People need to stop the fantasy that these two games are fundamentally different. They are not.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Well, broadly speaking they are the same:

- fly a space ship
- explore the galaxy
- buy/sell stuff
- combat
- crafting/engineering
- grinding (salt)
- procedural system

I think lots of people get stuck on the "cartoon" look and the "noob flight model eee" and ignore the fact that actually, they are the same genre of game. One is catered towards one end of the gamer spectrum and vice versa. People need to stop the fantasy that these two games are fundamentally different. They are not.

They are fundamentally different in both scope and fidelity though. You might not like to realize that, but it is.

I think you are also mistaken - for you to enjoy NMS you don't need to trash NMS. Go and play it. And stop spreading nonsense you obviously have little knowledge about.

 

[Barking_Mad]

ED has been out for nearly 5 years... in that timeframe, FDEV have practically done nothing in comparison to what HG have done with NMS in 2 years.

Elite has been out 3 years 8 months.

Here's the content released in that time.

Cheers.


https://elitedangerous2016.wordpress.com/2016/11/02/3366/

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

i wonder how many versions further the actual DEV team is working.

from other online games, i am used to have DEVs working on a version of the game that is at least two itterations further then the one the players have.
In between there are the non-public testing version, and the more or less public test version.

now, imagine a bug in the source code is now found in the final version. where do you fix it? version 1, 2, 3 or 4?
especially when said code was already modified in on of those versions and the fix would require a different script to apply for each version.

at least, thats what i was told from some game DEVs a while ago.

Yeah, this.

For simpler projects 'cherry picking' is something that is done on regular basis, or backporting. However both are very expensive ventures. That's why devs simply move to new branch and old one just get hot fixes.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Well, broadly speaking they are the same:

- fly a space ship
- explore the galaxy
- buy/sell stuff
- combat
- crafting/engineering
- grinding (salt)
- procedural system

I think lots of people get stuck on the "cartoon" look and the "noob flight model eee" and ignore the fact that actually, they are the same genre of game. One is catered towards one end of the gamer spectrum and vice versa. People need to stop the fantasy that these two games are fundamentally different. They are not.

Genre has nothing to do with complexity and dependencies.

 

[THECATISDEAD]

Elite has been out 3 years 8 months.

Here's the content released in that time.

Cheers.


https://elitedangerous2016.wordpress.com/2016/11/02/3366/

My bad, you're right of course.

 

[THECATISDEAD]

Genre has nothing to do with complexity and dependencies.

Look at the list of features on both, add destructable environments, flora, fauna, weather system etc... NMS has at least the same level of complexity as ED.

Look, I like both games (a lot) but this white knight approach is nonsense.

They are fundamentally different in both scope and fidelity though. You might not like to realize that, but it is.

I think you are also mistaken - for you to enjoy NMS you don't need to trash NMS. Go and play it. And stop spreading nonsense you obviously have little knowledge about.

And your indepth knowledge of (what exactly?) comes from where, precisely? You and your friend Stigbob are the prime white knights of this forum spreading their own subjective opinion in nearly all threads on a daily basis. Which makes me wonder, do you both actually play the game?

I think I've figured you two out. I think Stigbob is actually Sammarco and you are Braben. Am I right?





/s

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Yet... Using an editor, we can change the HUD to any old colour we want... Weird that...

You can change the HUD colours using an editor - but it affects avatar colouring in the UI, which kinda confirms what I mentioned does it not?

 

[verminstar]

Well, broadly speaking they are the same:

- fly a space ship
- explore the galaxy
- buy/sell stuff
- combat
- crafting/engineering
- grinding (salt)
- procedural system

I think lots of people get stuck on the "cartoon" look and the "noob flight model eee" and ignore the fact that actually, they are the same genre of game. One is catered towards one end of the gamer spectrum and vice versa. People need to stop the fantasy that these two games are fundamentally different. They are not.

Much as I love both games, they are not the same...the meat of ED is a space flight sim like experience while the meat of NMS is a survival game with a ship flight experience not unlike that of a near two decade old game called Freelancer.

Thats not to say its a bad thing, Freelancer was where my love of this genre started, so of course I simply cant not enjoy using it...I actually passed the milestone fer a hundred ship kills before I was a third of the way though the equivalent milestone fer walking distance in NMS. Even when the front end of my best fighter looks like something outta Only fools and horses.

It really is fun and Ive been playing it hard since Next...but its not elite. In terms of a more realistic space flight sim, NMS doesnt hold a candle to elite. Its the one aspect of elite I couldnt fault even if I tried hard to find something to fault it on. Of all the reason I use to not play ED, that aspect isnt one of them...its why Im still here and not on the NMS forums at all. I see NMS as a fun distraction, but I dont think there are thousands of hours in it...several hundred maybe at best until Q4 is here and then go from there ^

Fundamentally, its simply two very different games and the only comparisons Im making is the time it takes to update and fix bugs.

 

[Sylveria]

Look at the list of features on both, add destructable environments, flora, fauna, weather system etc... NMS has at least the same level of complexity as ED.

Look, I like both games (a lot) but this white knight approach is nonsense.

Has nothing to do with "white knight" approach- has everything to do with actual truth and data available. For example- your initial assumption that the game had been out for 5 years (which you admitted to being wrong about after being called out on it) but you're surely adamant that you're "right" on everything else.

How about actually taking a step back and realizing that perceptions may differ and there's no "right or wrong" in regard to how people may perceive them?

Apples for some, oranges for others. That's the great thing about choice- if ED isn't everyone's cup of tea, there's others out there. Again, why does ED need to be exactly like everything else out there for some to be content? Why can't it be its own game?

 

[THECATISDEAD]

Has nothing to do with "white knight" approach- has everything to do with actual truth and data available. For example- your initial assumption that the game had been out for 5 years (which you admitted to being wrong about after being called out on it) but you're surely adamant that you're "right" on everything else.

How about actually taking a step back and realizing that perceptions may differ and there's no "right or wrong" in regard to how people may perceive them?

Apples for some, oranges for others. That's the great thing about choice- if ED isn't everyone's cup of tea, there's others out there. Again, why does ED need to be exactly like everything else out there for some to be content? Why can't it be its own game?

See, I am not arguing which games is better. I love both, as I said. I am arguing that a small team at HG can create a huge update in 2 years, whilst FDEV fart away with a team of 100 developers "working" on ED. That's my sticking point. I'm simply comparing NMS with ED in terms of both being "space games" with broadly speaking, same set of features. Some of these features are more fleshed out in ED and vice versa. I'm not adamant I am right at all, where do I say that? Neither do I wish for ED to be exactly like something else.

What I am saying is that we should see major improvements in less time. NMS is a prime example of how that can happen. My personal opinion on why it is not happening is a) unnecesary bad code base and b) mismanagemnet of the game development.

 

[verminstar]

Has nothing to do with "white knight" approach- has everything to do with actual truth and data available. For example- your initial assumption that the game had been out for 5 years (which you admitted to being wrong about after being called out on it) but you're surely adamant that you're "right" on everything else.

How about actually taking a step back and realizing that perceptions may differ and there's no "right or wrong" in regard to how people may perceive them?

Apples for some, oranges for others. That's the great thing about choice- if ED isn't everyone's cup of tea, there's others out there. Again, why does ED need to be exactly like everything else out there for some to be content? Why can't it be its own game?

I cant remember who it was exactly who described ED perfectly a couple years back...I know it was a mod but not a hundred percent which one, so am loathe to guess...with their sense of humour Id probably get banned fer naming and shaming a mod :x

ED is the perfect game to keep on the backburner as it were...play it till yer bored, then go play something else till the next update cos the time between updates is just inane and boring...

Or something to that effect...it was a long time ago about halfway through the beigification party we had with FD on a thread in the exploration section...

As the original sith lord once said...only now at the end do you truly understand...just how true that original statement was ^

 

[Stigbob]

And your indepth knowledge of (what exactly?) comes from where, precisely? You and your friend Stigbob are the prime white knights of this forum spreading their own subjective opinion in nearly all threads on a daily basis. Which makes me wonder, do you both actually play the game?

I think I've figured you two out. I think Stigbob is actually Sammarco and you are Braben. Am I right?

I already have an official stalker, you'll need to take a number and stand in line.

 

[Ian Phillips]

I cant remember who it was exactly who described ED perfectly a couple years back...I know it was a mod but not a hundred percent which one, so am loathe to guess...with their sense of humour Id probably get banned fer naming and shaming a mod :x

Moderators have their sense of humour surgically removed on being recruited in to the Borg team.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Look at the list of features on both, add destructable environments, flora, fauna, weather system etc... NMS has at least the same level of complexity as ED.

Look, I like both games (a lot) but this white knight approach is nonsense.

Please don't resort to tired tropes about white knighting... I'm not defending things that don't work well in Elite.

I gave you a list of Elite content. There's many more things in there to complicate development than NMS. Consider networking requirements, missions and the mahoosive BGS. All with high levels of complexity when it comes to adding new stuff.

Maybe go watch:

https://youtu.be/GiAcsrmyePs

https://youtu.be/Vz3nhCykZNw

Cheers.

 

[verminstar]

Moderators have their sense of humour surgically removed on being recruited in to the Borg team.

Different horses fer different courses...I tend to think of ye guys like cylons and humans...but Im biased cos that was the game I played before ED...the mods there had me on their hitlists both ingame and on the forums...

I just have this unique sorta way with anyone in authority...sorry bout that its just the way I am...rebel without a cause James Dean eat yer heart out ^