Why Frontier are wrong to keep nerfing high credit earning methods.

[babelfisch]

Yeah, the skimmer exploit existed since 17 Draconis, I personally used it to get 700 mill. Now, where did he explicitly said it wasn't and exploit?

I already quoted it above. He says that the Skimmer exploit is a 'good credit making method' rather than an exploit.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

I already quoted it above.

Yeah, I already answered that.

 

[Han Zulu]

The more we nerf, the less game we have. It's the death of a thousand cuts.

The voices of people shouting for more stuff to do and buffs to existing things are drowned by all the nerf-calls.

 

[Zer0cool]

No, he says it's not an exploit because it doesn't matter what the devs intended. He says that only technical bugs can be exploits.



Sorry but your entire thread is based on your misunderstanding of the word exploit.

PS

What happened to:


Is that no longer true? Suddenly it doesn't matter how an exploit is defined because it turned out that you were wrong?

I'm keen to avoid this thread turning into an argument, that's all.

But I will say again what I said before.

The difference is the game is working as designed. It's the responsibility of the game developer to ensure the game is working as they intended.

Case and point.

Frontier have said twice recently that due to untested design players have earned credits and blueprints Frontier did not intend them to by playing the game normally, and they will no be removing credits, blueprints or progress as a result. This is because these were gain by legitimate game play and the error lies with there QA.

However

When players EXPLOITED the engineering rolls, they removed progress and in some cases banned players for using the exploit.

That's why and how it's different.

 

[babelfisch]

But the devs clearly think of it as unintended. Why would they ban the missions then?!

Yes, that's what I am saying.

I'm keen to avoid this thread turning into an argument, that's all.

But I will say again what I said before.

The difference is the game is working as designed. It's the responsibility of the game developer to ensure the game is working as they intended.

Case and point.

Frontier have said twice recently that due to untested design players have earned credits and blueprints Frontier did not intend them to by playing the game normally, and they will no be removing credits, blueprints or progress as a result. This is because these were gain by legitimate game play and the error lies with there QA.

However

When players EXPLOITED the engineering rolls, they removed progress and in some cases banned players for using the exploit.

That's why and how it's different.

So you are saying the Skimmer thingy is not an exploit because they allow players to keep their money. Do I get that right?

Yeah, I already answered that.

No, you didn't. I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to tell me and I get the feeling that either you or me completely misinterpret OP.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I'm keen to avoid this thread turning into an argument, that's all.

But I will say again what I said before.

The difference is the game is working as designed. It's the responsibility of the game developer to ensure the game is working as they intended.

Case and point.

Frontier have said twice recently that due to untested design players have earned credits and blueprints Frontier did not intend them to by playing the game normally, and they will no be removing credits, blueprints or progress as a result. This is because these were gain by legitimate game play and the error lies with there QA.

However

When players EXPLOITED the engineering rolls, they removed progress and in some cases banned players for using the exploit.

That's why and how it's different.

You misunderstand. It is unintended behavouir. Therefor an exploit and possibly a bug. Hence the reason why the missions are pulled. If they were working as intended, they would have kept them there.

 

[babelfisch]

You misunderstand. It is unintended behavouir. Therefor an exploit and possibly a bug. Hence the reason why the missions are pulled. If they were working as intended, they would have kept them there.

Exactly. But be prepared, he'll tell you that it's the developers responsibility to make sure everything is working as intended and therefore it can't be an exploit. Which doesn't make any sense, but neither does anything else in this thread.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

No, you didn't. I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to tell me and I get the feeling that either you or me completely misinterpret OP.

We need the OP to answer us.

 

[nosleepdemon]

No, Ant is listening to a vocal minority who don't actually want to play Elite. They want a different game entirely.

Absolutely true. Come on folks, have you never heard the phrase "the journey is more important than the destination"? AA is cool and all, but if he told you to jump off of a bridge he would be equally incorrect. Humans are all about the journey, we are never truly satisfied. Saying that the game "truly begins" at some arbitrary point in the future is mental gymnastics at best. If you aren't having fun RIGHT NOW in the game, then STOP! It's not magically going to become more exciting by allowing you to short circuit it with credit exploits. Moreover, these players will then incorrectly believe that the game has nothing to offer, and bring that negativity here.

 

[Garand1987]

I have to agree. Especially when it comes to stacking data missions etc. Credits don’t get you to the meat of the game anymore. Not with engineering, skill requirements, exploration time to find new locations, rep grind etc. that’s what gets you somewhere. Constantly nerfing any way to actually make a little bit of credits so you need to spend weeks or months to get the one ship you want and then kit it isn’t needed. Because after that to be decent you need to find materials so engineer it, get in the engineers good graces (in order to unlock more engineers and do the same with them) build your skills and THEN take part in the game proper. Credits and now the much smaller selection of decent solo missions doesn’t add to the game I don’t think. Makes it a massive repetitive grind until you get to the starting point of doing what needs done. Which will take enough time in and of itself.

 

[babelfisch]

We need the OP to answer us.

Again, he already did answer us in the OP. He differentiates between exploits and 'good credit making methods'. He says that it doesn't matter what the devs intended.

Exploit is abusing game mechanics by forcing the game to do something or act in a way that it would not normally through normal play.

Good making method is the game working as the devs designed it, which may not be the way they intended it, but that's their problem and why they have PAID QA Testers.

 

[Zer0cool]

You misunderstand. It is unintended behavouir. Therefor an exploit and possibly a bug. Hence the reason why the missions are pulled. If they were working as intended, they would have kept them there.

Exactly behaviour might be unintended, but it did not take player manipulate anything to force it (fly back and force in a game about flying is not unusual), hence it was poor game design, which is not considered an exploit in the wider games industry. And NO a link from Wiki that anyone can update is not confirmation. Otherwise give me 5 mins and I'll make it say anything you like.

 

[DustyArne]

Frontier is wrong because the 10% of players on Reddit and the Forums are complaining about the nerfs?


Nah..

They are right to do so, because its their game, and the 90% that don't read the forums and know what a Reddit is aren't complaining.

 

[fitzsteve]

Activities should be balanced on a credit to risk/time earning basis with a consistent approach, that's all I ask and I'm sure most people will agree with that. Too much/too little is subjective but since I've owned the game the max earning potential per hour, even with Robigo hauling have been set around 20m credits/hour.

The 200/300m per hour methods that have appeared in the last couple of patches are clearly not what was intended so think of it as a bug fix and not a nerf.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Exactly behaviour might be unintended, but it did not take player manipulate anything to force it (fly back and force in a game about flying is not unusual), hence it was poor game design, which is not considered an exploit in the wider games industry. And NO a link from Wiki that anyone can update is not confirmation. Otherwise give me 5 mins and I'll make it say anything you like.

In some scenarios board flipping was involved.

And you are right, it is more unintended result than exploit. That's why FD didn't take away credits. Doesn't make it right

 

[oznig]

Exactly. But be prepared, he'll tell you that it's the developers responsibility to make sure everything is working as intended and therefore it can't be an exploit. Which doesn't make any sense, but neither does anything else in this thread.

you talk pure nonsense, if it isnt the devs responsibility to make sure its working as intended then who's is it pray tell?? yours ?? you have some self imposed duty to make sure we play the game in a way you find acceptable?

 

[babelfisch]

I have to agree. Especially when it comes to stacking data missions etc. Credits don’t get you to the meat of the game anymore. Not with engineering, skill requirements, exploration time to find new locations, rep grind etc. that’s what gets you somewhere. Constantly nerfing any way to actually make a little bit of credits so you need to spend weeks or months to get the one ship you want and then kit it isn’t needed. Because after that to be decent you need to find materials so engineer it, get in the engineers good graces (in order to unlock more engineers and do the same with them) build your skills and THEN take part in the game proper. Credits and now the much smaller selection of decent solo missions doesn’t add to the game I don’t think. Makes it a massive repetitive grind until you get to the starting point of doing what needs done. Which will take enough time in and of itself.

It's not a nerf but fixing an exploit though.

you talk pure nonsense, if it isnt the devs responsibility to make sure its working as intended then who's is it pray tell?? yours ?? you have some self imposed duty to make sure we play the game in a way you find acceptable?

Sorry but you completely misunderstood. Of course it's the devs responsibility to fix the game. I disagree with the part where OP says it's not an exploit and that it doesn't need fixing.

PS
It's not so complicated, if everyone would just read what has been said in this thread 3/4 pages would be unnecessary.

 

[oznig]

In some scenarios board flipping was involved.

And you are right, it is more unintended result than exploit. That's why FD didn't take away credits. Doesn't make it right

doesnt make it wrong either tho does it?. as always we,re back to the eliteist circle jerk squad trying to dictate how everyone plays the game

 

[Kosmetas]

Before you could make tons of credits with Skimmer missions there was Massacre missions, before that smuggling, before that crazy lucrative trade routes and on and on. You can always make enough credits to buy the ships you want.

The issue is some want it now.

 

[Han Zulu]

To be fair also calling this latest skimmer trend "not an exploit" is a bit of a stretch.

It may not have involved board hopping or instance relogging but retreating to a safe distance so that more skimmers can spawn in the same base to complete a different mission seems entirely unintended gameplay.

Actually, it was the opposite before 3.0. Skimmers would self-destruct so you wouldn't have enough skimmers to kill even for a single mission, and you had to log out to respawn them. Very annoying to even play it proper. So FDev fixed the skimmer bug by adding this new distance-respawn. Now, if they want to fix it without introducing the old bug, perhaps having a timer? Move away to a distance and respawn after 1-2 minutes. That probably would slow the gold digging down a bit without messing it up again.